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M/S Compression Setup/ ITB/Sonar 7.0.2

Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by NickSoldier, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. NickSoldier

    NickSoldier Guest

    I have been everywhere without a clear cut explanation.
    Maybe you guys can help...

    M/S Compression/Mastering/In The Box

    I am looking for a definite routing scheme to use in a mastering situation.

    I have one stereo track with the song loaded onto the track.
    This track is output to the Master.

    I need to compress the mid and side separately.

    I am aware of compressor plugins that have this feature already.
    Fabfilters Pro-C for example.

    I know Brainworx and Voxengo have plugins to encode and decode M/S.

    However, I am interested in the routing.
    What needs to be done in order to compress the Mid and Side separately?
    If this has been discussed fully somewhere within the forums,
    A link would be great.
    Thanks a bunches.

    I know how to create a Mid and Side track.
    Insert as a plugin on the Stereo Track, the M/S decoding plugin.
    Voxengo MSED set to encode.

    Select the stereo track.
    Menu Bar at the top of Sonar, select.
    Edit>Bounce to Track(s)

    Choose from popup dialog:
    Source Category: Entire Mix
    Channel Format: Split Mono

    Sonar will now mix down 2 stereo tracks.
    Track 2 will possess the Mid signal. It will be automatically panned hard left.
    Track 3 will possess the Side Signal. It will be automatically panned hard right.

    To convert back to Stereo(Decode), all I have to do is route both newly created tracks (Mid and Side Tracks) output to a bus.
    That bus must contain the Voxengo MSED set to decode.
    I now have the original Stereo information.

    Lets say I want to compress the Mid signal. I could put a compressor on the Mid track that was created. (Its panned automatically
    during creation, to the hard left.)
    However, when I do put a compressor on this track, any bit of compression seems to "throw stuff off" while listening.

    If I start to manually bring down the volume of the Mid Track,
    the fact that the Side track is panned hard right, brings forth the fact that the Side track is panned hard right.
    In other words: If I mute the Mid track, of course since the Side track is panned hard right, the sound comes from the right speaker or headphone.

    Is the Panning wrong, or maybe a volume issue?
    Where do I go from here?

    If someone could outline in step by step format, that would be the greatest.
  2. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Well-Known Member

    Mar 20, 2008
    currently Billings
    If it were me I would truly split your stereo track into two individual tracks. Once you have a mono track representing the stereo left and a mono track representing the stereo right things get pretty easy. I use Audition 3 so I can't comment really on how to accomplish the task in Sonar.

    Copy the now mono side track to a third track and invert the phase. Pan your side tracks hard left and hard right respectively. Send them to a bus or link them some way and insert your fx on that bus.

    Your now mono center track will be panned center like it should be and you can do what you will to it.

    When you get get things manipulated where you want them bounce the three tracks back into a stereo file in whatever format you choose.

  3. NickSoldier

    NickSoldier Guest

    hmmm, mono side track.
    But all you have done thus far is created a mono Left track, and a mono Right track.
    Where did the mono "side" track come from?
  4. Dozer

    Dozer Active Member

    Nov 21, 2006
    Home Page:
    1.)Create 2 Stereo Tracks
    Track 1 and Track 2
    2.)Pan Track 1 hard left.
    3.)Pan Track 2 hard right.
    4.)Insert on Track 1: Voxengo MSED plugin. Set to "Encode".
    5.)Insert on Track 2: Voxengo MSED plugin. Set to "Encode".

    6.)Copy the Song/Mix to both of those Stereo Tracks.
    Note: Ensure they are both alligned.
    I know in Sonar 7 you just hold Ctrl./Shift, then click and drag a copy
    of Track 1 to Track 2.
    Ctrl. is the Copy function, but also holding Shift keeps the sound clip
    locked in time while copying to another track.

    7.)Insert on Master Bus: Voxengo MSED plugin. Set to "Decode".
    This instance of the Voxengo MSED that is set to Decode, is decoding the M/S.
    Basically giving you back your stereo track.

    Play audio. You should basically hear your song/mix as usual.
    Now disable/bypass the Voxengo MSED plugin that is on the Master Bus
    You will hear the "Mid" programme material on the left.
    You will hear the "Side" programme material on the right.
    This is because you have bypassed the Master Buses ability to "Decode" the
    M/S Matrix, by bypassing the Voxengo MSED inserted on the Master Bus.

    Want to do some Compression or Eq to the "Mid"?
    Insert a Compressor or Eq onto Track 1. Adjust to taste.

    Want to do some Compression or Eq to the "Side"?
    Insert a Compressor or Eq onto Track 2. Adjust to taste.

    Im sure that is the way. Please correct me if Im wrong.
  5. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Well-Known Member

    Mar 20, 2008
    currently Billings
    I may have misunderstood your original setup. When I record two mic's MS into my portable 2 track flash recorder, the left side of the "stereo" track is the <mid> and the right side of the "stereo" track is the <side>. Unless you have a MS decoder inherent to your 2 track recorder this is probably similar to your setup. If this isn't how your set up works then disregard the rest of this post.

    If I drag and drop this audio file off of the flash drive onto my audio computer it shows as a stereo file. I merely split it back into its left and right components creating two individual wave files where there was one stereo wave file. The alternative is to record it real time via SPDIF from the flash recorder into my DAW as individual MS components.

    Remembering that I use Audition 3, this is the next step. Now I have the mid and side components to work with in a multitrack session. I add <mid> into track 1 and label it as such. I add the <side> into track 2 and again into track 3. Track 2 gets panned -100 and track 3 gets panned 100. I also invert the phase of track 3.

    Now I create a bus and route tracks 2 and 3 to the bus. It is in this bus that I would insert FX or EQ or adjust the side level within the master output.

    When I get what I want from the sound I bounce the session into it's own stereo wave file and split into individual movements.

    If I'm not clear I can try again.
  6. ismaeliso

    ismaeliso Guest

    actually he is right by doing an inversion of phase and combining the right mono track with its inverted image you cancel the mono part of your initial track because in your initial split stereo signal only the side signal is different the center part is going to be the same thus if you take one of the mono signals and then combine it with its inverted image you are doing what is called a phase cancellation of the common signal in this case the mono part of your signal thus you get left with your side signal.... after applying FX send that side signal to 2 different AUX one panned hard left and the other one hard right combine them with a third AUX on which you send the mid signal or mono part of your original track panned dead center on which you can apply seperately your desired effects... but don't forget to cut down your signal level by 6dB to avoid clipping because merging the signals increases the overall level of your final mixdown...i forgot to mention your signal should be perfectly aligned if not you won't get the desired result....after all that is done route those 3 AUX to a stereo bus on which you can apply more global FX if needed... welcome to Mid/Side signal recording....yes sometimes you want to maybe apply a different level of compression to the mid and the side part of signal independantly...
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