Discussion in 'Bass' started by Nutti, Oct 20, 2012.
Listen & learn what ribbon mics can do for you in your studio.
i love Jeff Lynne.
stuck in the past
I am.an old geezer and I'm in my 50's. I don't think we are going to change each other. Too old yes?
I'm sorry I'm coming at you hard. But I don't buy the real room thing as mentioned for all styles. Especially in this economy and especially for certain styles of music or engineering or levels. Thats what I keep saying here. And to clarify a bit more, I'm speaking (mixing). Send it to me and I will get it Pop sounding or clean up the mess. Lets leave it at that.
You do sound pretty old /dated to me, sorry, just being honest. You're the one who is stuck, not me. You go on about the old days, but on the other hand, talk about how plug-ins are going to take out analog and then attack a proven world class processor like the
Bricasti, something you've never even used. Whats that all about? Kind of confusing and surprising, and so I ask how do you know this? For what style of music are we talking about and I get Green Day or Tom Petty and more smear.
I know many here don't have appreciation for electronic music and Pop, that's cool. I usually don't even go there. But since we're on the topic, I've been into Pop my entire life so I get it. Its a lot more involved that some may think. Some people here may appreciate pop and want to learn some tricks so I speak my mind as always, and share my information for them. I speak from experience. There is no guess work going on over this debate. I'm not here to convince or convert you or anyone. Take it or leave it..
I'm proud to defend alternative ways to make music. In fact, that's what I want to hear. Give me attitude over perfection any day. There is no right way to me. We use what we have and if all ya got is a small studio, and your acoustics aren't ideal, well the next best thing might be a dead room with a Bricasti. I'll say it again. Dead bass is the way I like it. No paper for me. And replacing it with a sample or synth even better.
I don't know about the USA but I don't see the big studio business growing in the direction like you talk about here. And the economy is booming where I live. The only potential clients that would pay for what you are talking about are record companies or the old time bands including starving musicians that want a deal as usual. It would take a lot of them to pay for a large acoustic room like you are planning on or describing. So again, a Bricasti fits that bill!
If the economy picks up and the "70's sound returns, well I'll be the first guy here to open up a full size studio. I've got 70 microphones just waiting. That would be a dream come true for me.
Its my nature to razz a bit. Especially on subjects I'm really confident about. After all, I'm not only perfect, I'm Canadian.
All in fun.
BTW. Gaga's and several others success is directly tied to Nadir Kayat or RedOne as he's called. Check out his setting. It certainly lends credence to some of Chris' take on types of production, but theres still a very good room involved.
As far as Jeff Lynnes' room....ie: his house....lots of surfaces and really REALLY great outboard and mics. Not a reverb person nor a compression person.
What I see growing for a lot of us. Bands or solo artists recording in small studios ( home studios) that send their rough mixes to professional studios with guys like me able to add some mojo to their mixes, including remixes and sound replacement.
Dave, Reverb isn't big on vocals right now , delay and layering is. Dead sounding lead vocals is what I'm hearing, with a touch of space like a
Bricasti or plug-in. Reverb in huge in VSTi where I sit.
The Bricasti is awesome as a 2-bus finishing tool, especially rough mixes. Its the last piece of gear in my chain, I wish I had a few actually.
An H8000 is on my 2013 wish list. Maybe should have bought that first, erk money..
As much as you all despise this, this is one way I have been working with people for 30 years. An MPC, Keyboards and the artist. Wonderful way to write.
Its not the only way I work, but its how you do it.
really interesting to see the twists and turns this thread has taken. i could see this being split into at least 3 different topics.
chris i would love to hear some of the dub step you are doing. would you post a link or two?
as far as gaga not my cuppa but she is cutting edge controversial and making a lot more money than i am. i still think gaga / dubsteps and the like is more fashion and dance oriented. more for the clubs than for kickin back and smokin' a bowl or having a beer. i shuder to think about somone listeing to it while driving.
went to the ewe-toobe and did a search on dubstep ... listened. disturbing.
hey! hey! ....get off my lawn ...
Okay after a nights sleep and an EarthQuake I'm still up for this chat,
Once again, right over your head. You are missing the forest for the tree's. I'm not into Gaga either (her marketing thing) but I am into Pop that stems back to the beginning of time, The gear her team uses is of most interest to me . Hooks oh ya! But again, I get it and think progressively and pay attention to sound and what the vision is, what the music is tells me. I don't get personal issues get in the way. smoke But you don't care right? Not your bag of weed here.
The video shows one of the most famous standing writing tools. I am making note of it for the interested and moving towards my point in due time.
Its a challenge to keep this progressive on any level but a challenge is fun and I'm sure we are up to it yes? Easy enough to opt out of the discussion.
Where did dubstep come from now? If you want to hear more about that, see Indaba.Very cool stuff happening over there! Also look at Ableton Live and Fruity Loops. They are ideal DAW's for remixing.
Rock, Pop and Blues are my thing. But I love all types of music, even Maroon 5 and Usher ( wow) is growing on me lately. Great bass and vocals.
It would be fun to mess with some of your tracks, Kurt. Something you are really proud of. Are you up for a contest? Do you have anything we could play with?
We should split this topic. I think its going in the right direction and will be interesting over time ( future members included). Any suggestions where to spit it and some title suggestions?
the stuff i have recorded that i am most proud of would be sessions produced by cult following guitarist Kenny Blue Ray or Jackie Payne. and as such we would need to obtain his permission first and to be honest i don't think he would be willing. i would have to go out to the shop in back and wade through all my crap to find the cds.
i am a marginal musician but a very good producer. my best stuff has always been collaborations i have recorded with other musicians / producers. now that i think of it, there may be one piece i did 20+ years ago in a 1/2" 16 room i built for a guy ... can i upload it here? i don't really try to promote myself very much. the only place any of my stuff is on the web is on waldos site. search kurt foster. you're welcome to any of it.
when i had my best studio i was very busy recording other artists and in the whole 10+ years i think i had time to make one demo. a lot of the stuff i did by myself out at Cedar Flats was 1) limited by my abilities to sing (marginal) 2) and play (also marginal). plus the acoustics of that room were dismal and i was just learning how to record on a DAW ... latency issues and recording the inital tracks waaaaay too hot (hangover from 16 adat / analog days). not my best moments. most of it was intended only as songwriting demos.
Chris look,i am sorry i called dub step ugly sounding sh*t. that was NOT aimed at you personally. it is unsettling to me. i get it that what one person loves others might not. i am probably one of the only Merle Haggard fans who posts here.
can i have the suicide smiley's back? :biggrin:
I don't care for dubstep either, but so many people do. I don't get the appeal but , its part of our culture indeed.
I'd love to get some mixing topics going more here. They would serve us all so much better than a lot of the redundant stuff. Not to do better than the next guy, but to learn how to improve our mixes through examples.
Sorry, I took that suicide smiley out. Its getting annoying. I get your humor though, but...
One on Phil Tan. 3/4 in, some discussion on vocals ( reverb/delay chorus)
Episode 16: Phil Tan and Charles Dye - Pensado's Place
i think i have seen the light as why we are having so much trouble seeing eye to eye on this. you probably don't mic bass instruments often. i'll bet you use samples or keyboard bass mostly. so of course if you want to create a bass sound that has a room sound to it your options are to re amp and mic re record or to slap a room sim on it.
in the early 90's i worked for a guy who's main thrust was midi programing / arranging. one room studio with a dead vx box and exclusivly midi sound modules, samplers, drum machines and keyboards. of course what you describe is completely appropriate. i did a lot of that myself.
later i learned i had a preference for recording live musicians playing a variety of instruments. a live decent environment is essential for that. what i describe is completely appropriate also. i don't think either of is wrong. just different apps / toolsets for different tasks.
naturally, if i have a great sounding live room i'm going to use it for vocals too.
just heard another big earthquake in So Cal this am. the west coast is going crazy! hang on to your coconuts!
Exactly what I do . You are lucky to have a great room but most people don't so,,, I share my tech background for those wanting solid solution proven in the pop and mix culture.
We had a 7,7 last night. I felt dizzy from it. I fear the worst is coming, this a big one
Sent from my iPhone
i was in the Bay Area for the '89 Loma Prieta EQ. palm trees were waving back and forth ... 35 degrees each way. sidewalks looked like a wave, like a fun house floor that moves up and down.
upset tummy for days after. very upsetting.
2 small EQs off the Oregon Coast two days ago. then the 7.7 in Canada last night. now another 2.2 / 2.3 eq in So Cal ... 2012?
no matter what it's pretty essential for an accurate listening area. the difference in styles makes recording fun. The money-pit difference, is that a multi room studio has what it may not needed area, and a single room type studio can't, accommodate certain preferences. Better to have it and not need it, or need it and not have it? depends on whacha want to be capable of doing. it's all about the song anyway, ya it's oversaid, but, still true.
notice gaga in a pro CR? nirvana's 'polly' cut on a 50 dollar guitar, livevox in CR. Zep drums, in a mansion. lot's of variab;es of success, i just wann make sure i can deliver as an engineer. just an expanding field of needs. gotta know what's current to be actively pursing, and gotta know how it was done, yesterday, or 40 yrs ago. there is very little choice other than to be aware, love it or not, it's satisfying, to 'nail' the song a client wants.
i've noticed that even in articles about eminem, they make extensive use of mixing plugins, which, their doing on a high powred cpu, and state of the art pulggins. this to me creayes the need for a nice sounding room.
i leave most samples pretty much alone in a compromised space, cuz they already sound good. messing w/ alot of sampled stuff creates alot of errors from people using them in compromised monitoring.
So true but depressing. Lady Gaga in that room with all that gear when they could have done the same thing in her bedroom. There's no need for that console when everything it pretty well in the box. It's depressing that people who can afford it need it least. And the talent...no....skill.....no.....geek it requires to program a song. There's no performance value there. Turn off the power and where does it all go? Do you think Deadmau5 will ever do an acoustic set?
dunno bout deadmau5, but i saw the roots, and tribe called quest (hip hop acts) live in pretty large outdoor stadium, and they had musicians backing them up. they sounded nice. it was a party atmophere, but still. vibe is it, i think. metal and hip hop have more in common than they know. i mean, it's like the same tempos... alot of metal is sampled right now. dunno just go roll w/ it ithink. (ithink--- a new app for the brain)
"reamp guitars, reamp bass, reamp reverb, reamp a session and where it was recorded is just another process of the mixing and mastering game " It stops where your learning curve ends.
An example before its removed:
Bricasti M7 Impulse Response Library v1.1 - Samplicity
...and here's a nice review of the M7
I'm on M7 ver 2, its stellar.
Did you listen to the comparison I just made? Took 20 min to retrack it, run it through , master , save and post it. I didn't even spend time working on it.
Its just one example in regards to the Mix stage.
tried to but i can't get soundcloud to work on my computer.
No wonder hehe. Kidding.
Well that sucks. You need flash installed. No, Quicktime I think and it needs to be set so it will play all win media.
Separate names with a comma.