MS side chain / EQ recomendation maybe

Discussion in 'Graphic / Parametric EQ (analog)' started by Sanity Inn, Feb 24, 2005.

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  1. Sanity Inn

    Sanity Inn Guest

    Hey gang.

    I wasn't sure where to put this topic at, it depends on the answer i get..

    I've been reading about side chaining thru compressors and got a general idea of process and applications..

    The ' ducking" concept i get

    my question is more on the use of the EQ on side chain, with say the "de essing" solution..

    about the EQ itself (i feel foolish asking this) but do we need a hardware type EQ or can the side chain be routed to a bus on the PC with an EQ plug in ???

    if so? this solves the next question.

    if not

    what EQ would you recomend in the upper gear range ,,, not that I want to use it on the tracking process if i can help it, but if I have to , preffer it to be a better unit.

    appreciate the feedback


    the comps will be Crane song SCT 9/m and Manley Vari MU
  2. Sanity Inn

    Sanity Inn Guest

    Well, i answered my own question about using a plug as the EQ to side chain, apperently way too much trouble

    so comes down to EQ choices.

    short list is

    Cranesong IBIS

    GML 8200

    Manley massive Passive

    Millennia NSEQ 2

    Focusrite RED 2

    any takers ?

  3. Marcus Black

    Marcus Black Guest

    That´s the most expensive de-esser I´ve ever heard of !!! :D Sidechaining a Vari-Mu with a Massive Passive for de-esser use ! Wow !!! Hope you´re not getting any boybands to the studio so you´d need five of them... just kidding.

    I´m not really sure if you´re speaking in general or if you´re specifically into finding the ultimate de-essing-solution. Eq-ing the sidechain of a compressor has mainly two uses. Like you mentioned one option is tweaking the lows out and/or boosting the 8khz range to make the comp work on sibilance in the first place. I actually have a comp that has a "8khz" button on it ! My advice would be: don´t spend that kind of money on it. You get a whole pile of high-quality de-essers for the same money. I even quit using de-essers when I discovered "DAW-de-essing". Simply draw an automation curve on the vocal track and just bring the volume down on the "esses". That´s what the comp would do anyway. They´re very easy to see when you zoom out the track, and it´s accurate and arthifact-free as no compression is involved. And you can get every "s" exactly as soft as you want it. And this cost nothing. Hard to beat.

    One other reason for eq-ing the comp-sidechain is on a compressor used on the 2-bus. Hi-passing at 80, 100 or 200 Hz makes the comp ignore heavy bass (where the most energy is) and thus avoids ugly "pumping" and concentrates on transients in the rest of the freq-spectrum. Even for this use a massive passive or GML etc is completely overkill. A good tech could pretty easily make a 100 Hz switch for you. For just rolling off the lows I´m sure most any eq will do the job. You won´t hear the difference. If you have a spare channel or two in your desk (if you have one) you could use that aswell.

    If I had a Massive Passive (I wish !) I´d throw it on the 2-bus while mixing. Or vocals, or guitars or bass or... whatever but i wouldn`t waste it as a SC-filter. Completely overkill.
  4. Sanity Inn

    Sanity Inn Guest

    Thanks for the response

    the "de essing" was just the general idea coment, as I'm learning what M/S is about,,

    at this point the goal wasn't just to buy one of the mentioned EQ's just as a side chain tool, but more since I'd have to get one to use as a side chain tool, if irequired too,, i may as well get one that i can also use as you mentioned, on bus, or trakking if i needed it,

    but wanted the EQ to fall in line with the rest of my gear choices..

    so it basically comes down to, i should have EQ in my gear list,

    it's deciding which one

    again, thanks for making time to help

    Sanity Inn
  5. TeddyG

    TeddyG Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2005
    "Side-chaining" is: Adding effects/functions to a hardware console or hardware environment that doesn't offer those particular desired effects/functions. In the past, they were a seperate box in a rack, added through the "insert" points of the console, whether for tracking, mixing or both.

    Now that we all use computers with CPU's, hard drives, video screens and software for everything, the old term side-chaining is now called "adding a plug-in"- that being a piece of software that interfaces with your MAIN software as an adjunct to it(The computer-way of adding a seperate "box".).

    In truth, the actual hardware console(If still used at all) is simply(As it has always been) an "interface" between physical microphones/instruments and the physical recording device - at one time a tape recorder, now a computer.

    ALL "other" functions(EQ, etc.) are now, almost always, done in the computer itself, through software plug-ins, not hardware boxes(Though where considered neccessary, hardware boxes are still fine.).

    Today, even most objects that look like the old hardware consoles are just "other" now computer-type, interfaces, with knobs and switches, whose actual, labeled functions are performed, via software, in the computer and the console(Now called "controller"), is just an attempt to give a more familiar(For those who were familiar) feel to the whole process(Like using a joystick, or the plastic thing that looks sort've like a steering wheel, for your computer games), instead of using JUST the standard supplied interface - the mouse and keyboard.

    Indeed, today, using a "real" console or even an actual tape recorder(For their sound) are just and only "effects", for some perceived or desired result, considered(Rightly or wrongly?) to be unattainable via one's computer. Few desire tapes as a "final product" anymore and few want the input sound to be "changed", say between mic and recorder, by a console with a "sound" of its' own, which could easily be "made" digitally, at some later time, and then(Maybe blissfully) "cancelled, deleted, changed-back, modified some other way, if it "just ain't right". Even where tape is used today, generally the initial recording is done digitally, THEN, at some point in the process, it is "run through" a tape recorder(To "add" "the sound" of it) then taken back to digital. No matter, it all ends up in some sort of digital domain.

    Some try to "fudge it"(The sound), by using things like tube mic/instrument preamps. Truth to tell(All screaming and wailing aside - which is at times rather heart-wrenching...), "that tube sound" or "that tape sound" can be dialed in pretty convincingly(If it's really there at all?), via a few keystrokes or mouse drags of the right distortion plug-ins and these plug-ins get better everyday...

    So, MUST you still do ANY effects via hardware box? No. ALL effects can now be done in computer - either pre or post recording - if you like what there is available, software-wise. If not, try again tommorow or write a new piece yourself and make a million or two selling it!).

    Now, the ONLY hardware items you actually need are things that allow you to interface your microphones and instruments to the computer. ALL "other" outboard devices, from mic/instrument preamps to D/A-A/D converters, to consoles to reverb boxes, are personal preference items, which may(Or may not) be better than their equivilents which are already in every computer, as it comes from the store.

    Sadly... well, to me, sadly... Most instruments themselves no longer need to be interfaced, as they already exist in every $499 TV-special computer, with "even better" available for an extra $49 per orchestras' worth... And, within a very short time, the computer will do the vocals as well... We can argue about their quality, but that's about it. The college girl on the train yesterday, with her tiny .mp3 player and her earbuds, listening to whatever, while she studied her obviously very heavy microbiolgy textbook(What, No laptop?), really doesn't get into the subtleties of what we speak of here.

    All these fancy techie discussions are fun, maybe even educational, but, as usual, but just as we have long not needed better recordings, we will always need better things to record. On the other hand, maybe a bright girl who takes the time and energy to study a big textbook, on a train, MAY be convinced to trade-up to a DVD-A player? And maybe a new tube mic(Still using tubes twice as old as she is) or one more outboard box will provide her impetus? We'll just have to keep trying......

    Teddy G.
  6. Sanity Inn

    Sanity Inn Guest

    wow, that takes the fun out of potentially spending what i will loll just kidding .. tough enuff making decisions as is haha

    I appreciate the education on side chain, and the extensive post and your views,,

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    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

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