need help with front end

Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by dpianomn, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. dpianomn

    dpianomn Guest

    as i'm sure i've mentioned in other posts, i'm upgrading a lot of things and wanted to get the RO oppinion. (you've all been so helpful already).

    my band is not hard rock--if anything it's along the lines of ben folds...a lot of acoustic instruments and LOTS of rhodes :lol:

    i run cubase sx3 on a powerbook, using motu 896 (firewire).
    my plan was to purchase an ISA 428 with the AD converters as well as an API 3124+, and just use the motu as a go-between.

    i'm aware that these two pres are fairly similar, the API being a bit more question is, should i be looking at a setup more like ISA 428 and UA 2-610?? basically, should i be looking at a slower, possibly tube, VERY colored alternative to the API?

    thanks for your help!
  2. dpianomn

    dpianomn Guest

    eh, the more i think about it the more i like the idea of sticking with the API...

    still open to any thoughts you've got.
  3. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    I love my 2 API 3124Ms, my 3 API 3124s, my 48 Neve 3115s, I don't think about anything else.

    Ms. Remy Ann David
  4. dpianomn

    dpianomn Guest

    hey remy-
    do you find they're suitable for most vocals and OH's?
  5. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    Totally dude!

    I find that the APIs have a better high-end edge than the warmer Neve but I've never really been known to favor one over the other. Most of my fly packs are API 3124s, where my console is a Neve in the remote truck.

    My good friend and professional peer loves the small 1 RU (rack unit) footprint of the 3124M over any other brand. They sound great on EVERYTHING!

    What is really funny and nobody really knows this, (a little mousy told me) that the slew rate of the fabulous sounding API 2520 is only 1 1/2 volts per microsecond! It's not a factor because of its huge headroom and so it never really slews! The Neve operational amplifiers are rated at 15 volts per microsecond (v/u sec) and these are the old discrete transistor types from the early 70's, again with huge bedroom capabilities.

    Slew rate is the factor of how fast an amplifier can respond to transients. Generally a problem with integrated circuit chips in the past and not so much so when you designed discrete components for headroom. Many of the new chips are really fast these days. A topic of frequent discussions amongst audio engineers back in the late 1970s, early 1980s with the proliferation of integrated circuit chip technology.

    Fast woman
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I thought it was 3V/uS
    which is still below Walt's criteria ... I think

    Walt Jung knows a bit about this stuff

    even so not what you would call fast by todays standards
    JLM99v, Forssell, Hardy and Millennia are all quicker ... again I think
    and Tim at Seventh Circle has one too
  7. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    Yup Kev, a very good article by Walter Jung. I have read much of Walters articles/books since I was a teenager. One of the reasons why the Texas Instruments 741 (1 1/2 v/u sec) was generally a terrible sounding integrated circuit chip for audio but still widely used in spite of that, yeachhhh. Can y o u s a y s l o w ?????

    What is also interesting to note within the first article is the discussion regarding "negative feedback" (what the f*@k is wrong with you!?!) within an amplifier. Typically applicable to a microphone preamplifier gain trim. That is one of the features that makes the old gear like API and the Neve so cool and variable, along with most others. Another reason why gain staging within a console is so important! (i.e. maximum gain, most open sounding. Minimum gain, softer more squeezed sounding) You can use it to completely change the character of the sound, before you ever touch an equalizer (which is a totally different application). However, a guy like Greg Mackie put in a fixed gain microphone preamplifier, to be safe. When you trim the microphone gain adjustments on his little console, you are actually adjusting a buffer amplifier that is post microphone preamplifier, which actually makes for greater consistency with the sound of his console's.

    As to the 2520 Op-Amp, from API, the little birdie was actually a sheep in Wolfe's clothing! (You really didn't hear that for me)

    cheap cheap woof
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  8. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    a big cheerio to Paul
    we don't battle so much any more as he has new sheep to catch

    there are some fixed gain Mic-pre worth looking
    Viva La difference
  9. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Feb 17, 2001
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Home Page:

  10. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    yep the Old School
    another Gain Block .. API style thingo

    see the black box top middle - gain block
    the large trafo ... Profile 4804 sort of thing
    smaller trafo .. circular .. Sphere, Jensen ??? who knows

    looks like it has an option for a second input trafo ... line level ??

    Ah - HA read further Kev
    NOTE: This product contains the Crimson Audio Input transformer customed wound for Old School Audio.

    then there is the Vintage
    NOTE: This product contains our own Old School Audio proprietary input transformer.

    and then comes the two Lundahl options
    with the second, the "Big Daddy"
    having a unit in the middle with the OEP shape to it

    can't know for sure what this one is ?

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