Out of curiosity...does anyone here have any direct expe
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lowdbrent
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Why are you guys ditching the 9098's? How many do you have and where are they?
anonymous
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- Feb 10, 2001
From what I have heard....and bear in mind I didnt hear direct from Amek but rather a 3rd party.. Amek my be stopping production of the 9098 or perhaps the production might be moved over to the Soundcrap plant...in anycase its a lose lose situation. : The market for large format desks is much more difficult now than it was through out the 80's and even 90's.
Alécio Costa - Brazil
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- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
why don´t they do a fancy 02R type? something like $10k?
lowdbrent
Guest
The operations of the AMEK and the Soundcraft companies are separate in Harmon. They are in completely different markets. Amek has centered on high-end recording and Soundcraft has the low-end, and full range of SR.
The 9098 is a well-built console. It sound great. An aquaintance of mine has one in his personal studio. I hope to mix on it one day.
I suspect that the original post is bogus. Anyone that is getting a real console like a 9098 or an AMS/Neve 88R would not post here, would know that AMS/Neve provides excellent build, sonics and service quality. At 500k plus, they should.
The only turd in the AMS/Neve range is the Capricorn. They had a software problem where you could not set-up new channels, or make changes in a channel's routing assignment, without the console muting itself for five seconds while it updates. I first encountered this turd in New York at the CBS Morning Show studio. What a joke.
I would take a new Rupert Neve designed Amek over an 88R, inspite of the monitoring funkiness of the 9098.
The 9098 is a well-built console. It sound great. An aquaintance of mine has one in his personal studio. I hope to mix on it one day.
I suspect that the original post is bogus. Anyone that is getting a real console like a 9098 or an AMS/Neve 88R would not post here, would know that AMS/Neve provides excellent build, sonics and service quality. At 500k plus, they should.
The only turd in the AMS/Neve range is the Capricorn. They had a software problem where you could not set-up new channels, or make changes in a channel's routing assignment, without the console muting itself for five seconds while it updates. I first encountered this turd in New York at the CBS Morning Show studio. What a joke.
I would take a new Rupert Neve designed Amek over an 88R, inspite of the monitoring funkiness of the 9098.
ssltech
Guest
Lowdbrent,
I've personally teched a Capricorn installation for five years and never had this problem. -Not once.
Now, I've also installed a Libra and pulled the dammned thing out less than a year later for exactly that problem!
-Perhaps you have your star signs confused?
...And I know that Scenaria has worked on a Capricorn. -The studio he works at sold an AMS/Neve to put in a 9098i almost 2 years ago... so no... the post is most definately not bogus... -He knows what he's talking about.
I went to the Amek factory in Manchester last March, and I know that production has now been shifted to Soundcraft's place in Borehamwood, south England... so while there may be a market distinction, they certainly do share the same Factory under Harman's ever unifying corporate structure.
As for the 88R, No... though I'd love to, since I have carried out three 9098i installations.
Keith
I've personally teched a Capricorn installation for five years and never had this problem. -Not once.
Now, I've also installed a Libra and pulled the dammned thing out less than a year later for exactly that problem!
-Perhaps you have your star signs confused?
...And I know that Scenaria has worked on a Capricorn. -The studio he works at sold an AMS/Neve to put in a 9098i almost 2 years ago... so no... the post is most definately not bogus... -He knows what he's talking about.
I went to the Amek factory in Manchester last March, and I know that production has now been shifted to Soundcraft's place in Borehamwood, south England... so while there may be a market distinction, they certainly do share the same Factory under Harman's ever unifying corporate structure.
As for the 88R, No... though I'd love to, since I have carried out three 9098i installations.
Keith
ssltech
Guest
..By the way... just curious, and not wishing to give the game away, but I think your friend might be a friend of mine too...
-Approximately which part of the country is the private studio in...?
Keith
-Approximately which part of the country is the private studio in...?
Keith
lowdbrent
Guest
Ted the Mexican restaurant guru in OKC?
No, it was the Capricorn.
Why is this guy asking about SSL vs. Neve on this site? Surely this guy would know the real scoop if his studio is laying out that kind of cash. Is he just an engineer?
I grew up on the SSL 4k with a G. That was my only SSL experience. The rest was Neve V's, Neoteks, Soundcraft and now exclusively Pro Tools HD. Aside from the monitoring issues, I would take a 9098's sonics over any of the above mentioned consoles. Why are they getting rid of them?
When and why did Soundcraft take over production? Was it economics?
No, it was the Capricorn.
Why is this guy asking about SSL vs. Neve on this site? Surely this guy would know the real scoop if his studio is laying out that kind of cash. Is he just an engineer?
I grew up on the SSL 4k with a G. That was my only SSL experience. The rest was Neve V's, Neoteks, Soundcraft and now exclusively Pro Tools HD. Aside from the monitoring issues, I would take a 9098's sonics over any of the above mentioned consoles. Why are they getting rid of them?
When and why did Soundcraft take over production? Was it economics?
Alécio Costa - Brazil
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
hey guy,I would like to make ya that very scaring question...
Neve´s and ssl´s are $$$$. how does the sound of PT mix and PT hd compae tothese masterpieces? I prefer to ask here than on a more biased forum ya know.....lol
I use PT mix light piped to an 02r. I am thinking of buying onemore mix card to do all in a box.
whatare your opinions?
Steve Devino told me this internalbuses stuff are not serious, mic position much more important.
thankx
Neve´s and ssl´s are $$$$. how does the sound of PT mix and PT hd compae tothese masterpieces? I prefer to ask here than on a more biased forum ya know.....lol
I use PT mix light piped to an 02r. I am thinking of buying onemore mix card to do all in a box.
whatare your opinions?
Steve Devino told me this internalbuses stuff are not serious, mic position much more important.
thankx
lowdbrent
Guest
I was FOH engineer for Junior Brown (Curb Records) and The Tractors (Arista/Audium). I bought the PT HD rig to record shows and then book it for rentals in the off-season.
Functionally, I prefer mixing on Pro Tools HD. No analog console and automation system can compete. Sonically, if I need color, I prefer a great analog desk.
I have no need to use a desk for the preamps, as I have 24 channels of the Digi PRE's and others (GML, Pultech, Telefunken, Manley, Summit, API, etc.) at my disposal.
Functionally, I prefer mixing on Pro Tools HD. No analog console and automation system can compete. Sonically, if I need color, I prefer a great analog desk.
I have no need to use a desk for the preamps, as I have 24 channels of the Digi PRE's and others (GML, Pultech, Telefunken, Manley, Summit, API, etc.) at my disposal.
ssltech
Guest
...Nope. -Not the same home studio then. -I'm thinking a little further west.
-Hmmm. -Been to a couple of Capricorn User group meetings while I was still teching the Capricorn installation, and never had that. (About a thousand other things, -but never that!!!)
-Also in the entire 5 years or so that we had the Capricorn, I never got a complaint from an engineer about that either. -Been to a few other Capricorn studios between New York and Miami and never seen it... -Not to say it can't happen, but I would definately say that if you experienced that on a Capricorn, it wasn't indicative of a platform-realted problem... perhaps a quirk of that particular installation?... -Mercifully I never worked on the very earliest Capricorns -which I know were a whole lot less stable than the later ones.
Now we also had a Libra and a Logic. They both did it. -Every time. -If you added a path then every output mutes for 5-6 seconds. -Another local Libra user (broadcast) was furious with it! -In fact our logic was so unstable that it just wouldn't boot up most mornings. -It was pulled out and sent back before it did us any real harm!
My big issue with AMS/Neve is the lamentable support in the US. -Not the 'foot-soldiers' themselves: the techs are all wonderful guys, who will all go above and beyond the call of duty to do whatever is within their power to get/keep you running. -Getting parts that aren't sufficiently stocked in the US to you is another matter... You'll be waiting a while... and if that part is a CON card, or a DSP board in a Capricorn, or an SPS card in a Libra or a Logic... you'll spend an awful lot of that time apologising to clients!
By chance, this afternoon I'm picking up a proof copy (for approval) of an album I did at the start of the year, which was recorded & mixed entirely on a 9098i. (yes yes yes.....I'm a frustrated musician!) And I adore the Amek. -I've done gawd-knows how many albums on SSL's and Neves. -We had a V3 and a VR, as well as a pair of SSL 4000's. Since then I've worked on SSL 9000's and Ameks. -The 9000 is way better than the Neve (we had one of each side by side for a while...) but the Amek smokes them both.
While Amek tech support is not quite as good as SSl's (let's face it, in the US, SSL is the benchmark of goot customer tech support!) it's still better than AMS/Neve. For that reason, I'd be a little sad if I had to pull an Amek and put an 88R in it's place...
One more thing... the 88R isn't a "real" Neve to me... Rupert didn't design it, that's for certain! -It has grown out of a V-series frame. -the Amek is the last true Rupert Neve design, and is simply fantastic!
I know most people will know that, but it carries more weight than most folks realise. Lowdbrent, You've used one... you will understand, I feel certain!
Keith
-Hmmm. -Been to a couple of Capricorn User group meetings while I was still teching the Capricorn installation, and never had that. (About a thousand other things, -but never that!!!)
-Also in the entire 5 years or so that we had the Capricorn, I never got a complaint from an engineer about that either. -Been to a few other Capricorn studios between New York and Miami and never seen it... -Not to say it can't happen, but I would definately say that if you experienced that on a Capricorn, it wasn't indicative of a platform-realted problem... perhaps a quirk of that particular installation?... -Mercifully I never worked on the very earliest Capricorns -which I know were a whole lot less stable than the later ones.
Now we also had a Libra and a Logic. They both did it. -Every time. -If you added a path then every output mutes for 5-6 seconds. -Another local Libra user (broadcast) was furious with it! -In fact our logic was so unstable that it just wouldn't boot up most mornings. -It was pulled out and sent back before it did us any real harm!
My big issue with AMS/Neve is the lamentable support in the US. -Not the 'foot-soldiers' themselves: the techs are all wonderful guys, who will all go above and beyond the call of duty to do whatever is within their power to get/keep you running. -Getting parts that aren't sufficiently stocked in the US to you is another matter... You'll be waiting a while... and if that part is a CON card, or a DSP board in a Capricorn, or an SPS card in a Libra or a Logic... you'll spend an awful lot of that time apologising to clients!
By chance, this afternoon I'm picking up a proof copy (for approval) of an album I did at the start of the year, which was recorded & mixed entirely on a 9098i. (yes yes yes.....I'm a frustrated musician!) And I adore the Amek. -I've done gawd-knows how many albums on SSL's and Neves. -We had a V3 and a VR, as well as a pair of SSL 4000's. Since then I've worked on SSL 9000's and Ameks. -The 9000 is way better than the Neve (we had one of each side by side for a while...) but the Amek smokes them both.
While Amek tech support is not quite as good as SSl's (let's face it, in the US, SSL is the benchmark of goot customer tech support!) it's still better than AMS/Neve. For that reason, I'd be a little sad if I had to pull an Amek and put an 88R in it's place...
One more thing... the 88R isn't a "real" Neve to me... Rupert didn't design it, that's for certain! -It has grown out of a V-series frame. -the Amek is the last true Rupert Neve design, and is simply fantastic!
I know most people will know that, but it carries more weight than most folks realise. Lowdbrent, You've used one... you will understand, I feel certain!
Keith
anonymous
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2001
"Why is this guy asking about SSL vs. Neve on this site? Surely this guy would know the real scoop if his studio is laying out that kind of cash. Is he just an engineer?"
Out of curiosity where in this thread was SSL mentioned? I was simply asking if anyone had any serious experience on the 88R and what their impressions were.
And yes I spent 4 or 5 years with a capricorn, probably one of the easiest digital desks I have ever dealt with. I could squeeze out a better mix in half the time on that board than I ever could on an analog counterpart.
Unfortunately the servicing aspect to that console is a nightmare. If it wasnt for the servicing I certainly would want one of my own.
Peace!
Out of curiosity where in this thread was SSL mentioned? I was simply asking if anyone had any serious experience on the 88R and what their impressions were.
And yes I spent 4 or 5 years with a capricorn, probably one of the easiest digital desks I have ever dealt with. I could squeeze out a better mix in half the time on that board than I ever could on an analog counterpart.
Unfortunately the servicing aspect to that console is a nightmare. If it wasnt for the servicing I certainly would want one of my own.
Peace!
RecorderMan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2001
ok...
88R? If you can afford one...get it....with the romte pre's in the room. It sounds great (worked on one @ Conway) wish I could afford to work on it all of the time. Haven't worked on the Ameks...Cello has one, I'll ask a friend who's been on it recently, about it. I'm biased to FlyingFaders/ect, myself. 88 sounds great. period.
88R? If you can afford one...get it....with the romte pre's in the room. It sounds great (worked on one @ Conway) wish I could afford to work on it all of the time. Haven't worked on the Ameks...Cello has one, I'll ask a friend who's been on it recently, about it. I'm biased to FlyingFaders/ect, myself. 88 sounds great. period.
Alécio Costa - Brazil
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
hey, isn´t anyone here caring for my question?
noone started from day one in their lives driving neves and ssls. I am in a much lower budget like 02Rs, d8bs.However that does not mean I am also pro.
noone started from day one in their lives driving neves and ssls. I am in a much lower budget like 02Rs, d8bs.However that does not mean I am also pro.
Alécio Costa - Brazil
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
I am also a pro.
anonymous
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2001
Alécio,
To answer your question....
I would say that SSL and Neve simply do not have an interest in the lower end market.
When developing, marketing and distributing a product that is targeted at larger volumes in sales your production facility, sales team and support has to be equiped for that. Neve nor SSL are equiped to push out volumes of low end consoles like an O2R or d8B. I suppose they prefer to stay in the six figure range because they cant offer similar quality at such a low price.
You can compare a console manufacture like a car manufacture.....you wont see Ferrari or lambourghini selling a budget minded $25,000 mass consumer vehicle nor a yacht manufacture making a "fishing" boat.
As I have always said...there no immitation...if you want an ssl then get an ssl or if you want a Neve then get a Neve. If you cant afford these types of desks then you have to be a smart shopper and look for what your client will be happy with.
To answer your question....
I would say that SSL and Neve simply do not have an interest in the lower end market.
When developing, marketing and distributing a product that is targeted at larger volumes in sales your production facility, sales team and support has to be equiped for that. Neve nor SSL are equiped to push out volumes of low end consoles like an O2R or d8B. I suppose they prefer to stay in the six figure range because they cant offer similar quality at such a low price.
You can compare a console manufacture like a car manufacture.....you wont see Ferrari or lambourghini selling a budget minded $25,000 mass consumer vehicle nor a yacht manufacture making a "fishing" boat.
As I have always said...there no immitation...if you want an ssl then get an ssl or if you want a Neve then get a Neve. If you cant afford these types of desks then you have to be a smart shopper and look for what your client will be happy with.
lowdbrent
Guest
Oops, I meant Amek vs. Neve. Brainfart!
I started on a Neve. I was lucky. I was selling semi pro and pro gear at the same time, so I had access to most of the stuff out there. This was way before there was a Mackie Mouse console. When they did come out, clients were ditching their leases of their bigger consoles, and getting a thousand channels of the Mackie. What a joke. Back then a REAL budget board was a used Trident B or a new C, a Sony, a Soundcraft 6000, etc.
I bypassed digital console land, because they all sucked. I still use analog when I need to, but primarily stay in DAW land, becuase the work that I do just doesn't pay for nice analog console/studio time.
If I get the chance, I am going to get a rack of the 9098 pre/eq's, and I hope to see Ruperts re-release of vintage modules soon.
I second that comment about the Neve 88R. Neve is Neve is name only.
I started on a Neve. I was lucky. I was selling semi pro and pro gear at the same time, so I had access to most of the stuff out there. This was way before there was a Mackie Mouse console. When they did come out, clients were ditching their leases of their bigger consoles, and getting a thousand channels of the Mackie. What a joke. Back then a REAL budget board was a used Trident B or a new C, a Sony, a Soundcraft 6000, etc.
I bypassed digital console land, because they all sucked. I still use analog when I need to, but primarily stay in DAW land, becuase the work that I do just doesn't pay for nice analog console/studio time.
If I get the chance, I am going to get a rack of the 9098 pre/eq's, and I hope to see Ruperts re-release of vintage modules soon.
I second that comment about the Neve 88R. Neve is Neve is name only.
Alécio Costa - Brazil
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
ok
mfilter
Guest
Alécio,
In the price range of an 02r you might look for a used Neotek. I don't know about Brazil... you could find something in the US for around $5k. It won't have nearly the flexibility, features, and channels of a high end console, but you'll have a "clean" signal path. You can always add outboard pre's and and processing.
It will need some maintenance, though
Good luck,
Michael
In the price range of an 02r you might look for a used Neotek. I don't know about Brazil... you could find something in the US for around $5k. It won't have nearly the flexibility, features, and channels of a high end console, but you'll have a "clean" signal path. You can always add outboard pre's and and processing.
It will need some maintenance, though
Good luck,
Michael
Alécio Costa - Brazil
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
Thanks Michael. In fact I am just evaluating mic pres/compressors at the moment.
