Perfect Match to Bluebird SL

Vico

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Location
Turkey
Hello guys,
I'm glad to find here, was't easy looking an audio geek community. I'm newbie...

I'm thinking to buy Bluebird SL mic for solo instrument and chamber and looking a portable recorder which is perfect matched to bird.

I'm aware to Zoom H5 or H6 but not sure what would be better for mic. And I never used XLR so do I need to another mic for those recorders, cause there is two input R and L, is't enough to recording stereo only one input?

Thank you and sorry for these poorly questions.
Best.
 

Boswell

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Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
From a technical point of view, the Bluebird-SL would work with the Zoom H5 or H6 via an XLR input, and using new batteries you would get maybe an hour or so of recording with phantom power turned on. Be aware that there is no such thing as a "perfect match".

You can certainly record using a single microphone (mono) using these recorders, but I think you have to consider carefully if a microphone of that type is what you want for your intended use.

You haven't said what is the purpose of the recordings (archival, rehearsal etc), or whether you would be recording in a studio (or at least an acoustically-treated room) one track at a time, or if these are to be recordings of live concerts. If it's performances or concerts, then I would strongly advise that you record in stereo, whether that's by using two separate microphones or a single stereo microphone. For single-track studio use, then mono recordings using a single microphone are much more relevant.
 

pcrecord

Quality recording seeker !
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Feb 21, 2013
Location
Quebec, Canada
Like Boswell said, matching is all about the source and the purpose of the recording.

I'm very curious how you came to the idea of the SL for solo instrument and chamber.
If you are talking strings (Cello viola etc..) I doubt it would be the best choice.
You see, like many budget mic, the SL has a hyped high frequency response. And many of us like to record strings with a mic with less high frequencies or even with thame Highs like a ribbon mic...

The fact that it's frequency peak is around 10k makes it worst. It would emphases sibilance in voices and can produce some metal like sound.
Bluebird SL.jpg


I'll wait for more information about what you want to do and why. It will help giving you better advice.
 

Vico

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Location
Turkey
Hi @Boswell
Thank you for educative informations. I was wondering how can zoom handle to power of capsule. Phantom power issue would be a game changer factor about portability.

Purpose is archival. Mostly room recording, studio room, concert room, home room that's variable but it must be a portable setup I'm sure. That's why I need to one mic, one track (stereo) and one input recorder solution. I'll not use mixer or amp neither, directly contact to performance.

@pcrecord Strings, woodwinds, drums, vocal (choral, male and female but rarely) what I want to record, room, chamber or concert hall that's variable situation, up to solo or multiple performances. I find Bluebird SL is versatile solution for those wide range but I like to take your advise of course I'm not insisted about SL

Shortly I need portability, stereo in one mic and one track, and fit portable recorder without external power if possible.

Thank you for your kind and informative responses. I'm gladly make desicion by your recommendations.

Best.
 

pcrecord

Quality recording seeker !
Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Quebec, Canada
Shortly I need portability, stereo in one mic and one track, and fit portable recorder without external power if possible.
stereo in one mic disqualify the SL.
Stereo in on track ? most recorders will do it.

Purpose is archival.
Archival ?

One thing you don't say is what is the level of quality needed and what budget you are willing to put it to it.

If quality is not an issue, you could use the onboard stereo mic of a recorder like the H4N
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H4NPro

But there is many better recorders and pro stereo mics available on the market.
I won't do name droping until I have more info. Another aspect is if you will be able to close mic the sources or you will be at a distance.
If it is at a distance, a shutgun mic may be a better choice...

Things for sure, the bluebird will not sound ideal with all the sources you want to record.

Your quest make me think how bad I'd want a Royer SF24 ! ;)
 

Vico

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Location
Turkey
@pcrecord Of course not enough budget to take like Royer SF24 :))) I hope you can.

So SL is dead than stereo in one mic. Mobility is not fit for two delicate mics like SL.

Yes Archive intent, personal archive.

Level of quality and budget, for example like Bluebird SL and Zoom H6 or something else.

Do you have an experience with H4N Pro (I know not upgraded version) and what do you think with H6 comparison. I was researched about H5 and H6 and I find H6 is better than previous versions but don't know upgraded H4N.

Well two way for me then, onboard recorder or phantom powered stereo mic like https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/stereo-microphones/

In onboard case I can get two head (if I'm going to zoom ecosystem) one is environmental (large cardioid) for multiple performance record and narrow for solo instrument. Which heads do you recommend me? https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/product-accessories

Or if I'm going to stereo mic, what would be? How works if you input a stereo mic into portable recorder like zoom? is it capable to recording of both channel in one input?

Thanks @pcrecord
 

Boswell

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Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
I was wondering how can zoom handle to power of capsule. Phantom power issue would be a game changer factor about portability.
The Zoom series, like most other semi-pro portable recorders, can produce the +48V phantom power (PP) needed for external condenser microphones, the only problem being the toll it takes on the recorder's battery. In cases where I've had to guarantee two hours or more of portable operation of an H4N when using external PP microphones, I've connected a battery PP supply in the leads between the recorder and the microphones, so I could leave the PP off at the recorder and spread the load between two sets of batteries. To avoid the PP battery unit, I've also used a Rode NT4 stereo microphone with internal battery fitted where the X-Y pattern was adequate for the recording.

Purpose is archival. Mostly room recording, studio room, concert room, home room that's variable but it must be a portable setup I'm sure. That's why I need to one mic, one track (stereo) and one input recorder solution. I'll not use mixer or amp neither, directly contact to performance.

Strings, woodwinds, drums, vocal (choral, male and female but rarely) what I want to record, room, chamber or concert hall that's variable situation, up to solo or multiple performances. I find Bluebird SL is versatile solution for those wide range but I like to take your advise of course I'm not insisted about SL

Shortly I need portability, stereo in one mic and one track, and fit portable recorder without external power if possible.
My feeling is that the Bluebird-SL is the wrong microphone for what you want to do. It's a mono mic with a hyped top end, as Marco pointed out. It's probably a lovely microphone for certain applications, but the only time I've knowingly heard one capturing a live player (cellist), it was screamingly harsh, and managed to pick up virtually every paper rustle in the audience.

I would at least look at a microphone such as the Rode NT4, which is still a little exaggerated in the 3 - 5 Khz region, but can be tamed with suitable EQ in the mix. It's stereo and can take an internal battery, as I mentioned earlier. However, the NT4 capsules are not that different from the built-in microphones in the H4N, H5 and H6 recorders, but having an external microphone allows you to get it up on a stand and then use the recorder in your hand.

In common with many stereo microphones, the NT4 is fitted with a 5-pin XLR connector, and is supplied with a lead that splits the 5-pin XLR to two conventional 3-pin XLR plugs. These plug into the two (L and R) XLR connectors on the Zoom or other recorders.
 

pcrecord

Quality recording seeker !
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Location
Quebec, Canada
Level of quality and budget, for example like Bluebird SL and Zoom H6 or something else.
So about 650$
Do you have an experience with H4N Pro (I know not upgraded version) and what do you think with H6 comparison. I was researched about H5 and H6 and I find H6 is better than previous versions but don't know upgraded H4N.

H4 vs H6 ; My instinct is that the audio quality will be the same but you get 6 mono tracks (3 stereo) with the H6. (which I think you don't need)

The H4N is 199$ if you add a stereo mic like the NT4 (Boswell suggestion) at 529$, you are a bit over your target price but will get better results.
For the price I think it would offer honest quality. Of course there is always better choice if you want to put money into it.

The NT4 also have a small bump in the high frequencies but it is far less drastic than the SL :
upload_2017-3-29_7-59-39.png


We are talking about 2db HF boost for the Nt4 and nearly 10db with the Bluebird.

It's hard to figure out the level of quality you want/need out of 'Archive intent, personal archive.'. Either you want to remember or keep a proof you were there or will listen to those recordings frequently. Maybe the H4N stereo mic could sufice after all. only you can say.

Also you didn't say about proximity. If you want to record from the assistance or you have access to the stage (musician proximity), choice of mics will differ.
I'm just hoping you don't plan to record people inconito from the assistance without their consent..
 

Vico

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Mar 28, 2017
Location
Turkey
@Boswell Two hours is enough without external power unit.

However, the NT4 capsules are not that different from the built-in microphones in the H4N, H5 and H6 recorders, but having an external microphone allows you to get it up on a stand and then use the recorder in your hand.

It's made me doubtful, if there is no big different between built-in one, I can use recorder on the stand itself, eventual I'll pp on the pc. But I'm on Rode NT4 I'll make a research about it when I'm back home from work.

@pcrecord The reason of mention H6 was recording quality, it's pointless if I'll use external mic ofc but I find better than others (except h4n pro you know why) as naked record on my test researches.

I'm just hoping you don't plan to record people inconito from the assistance without their consent..

:))) that would be dificult to hidden with that setup. I have many musician friends and I like to keep their records for the future. Because those are treasure as educational for the next generations.

Proximity... sometimes directly into instrument or people, sometimes center of the standart room or small chamber/studio. Rarely big concert hall which is center front of the people (not speaker) and of course with permission :)

I just don't want to travel with fully equipped like pro but I like to best record in minimal solutions as much as possible. One recorder, one mic and one small stand if possible. NT4 I'll look that, and if you tolerant me I'll search some smilars and ask. I got nice pattern from your advices.

Thanks.
 

pcrecord

Quality recording seeker !
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Feb 21, 2013
Location
Quebec, Canada
The reason of mention H6 was recording quality, it's pointless if I'll use external mic ofc but I find better than others (except h4n pro you know why) as naked record on my test researches.
It's not just the mic at play when talking about recording quality. The preamp is also important. I doubt the preamps of the H4 and H6 are very different.

It's made me doubtful, if there is no big different between built-in one, I can use recorder on the stand itself, eventual I'll pp on the pc. But I'm on Rode NT4 I'll make a research about it when I'm back home from work.
I've read some people saying the NT4 sound better than the inboard mic of the H4N.. things you need to try for yourself I guess ;)
 

Boswell

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Location
UK
With any of the semi-pro portable recorders, you can opt for just the recorder to start with and record using the built-in mics. If you realise after a while that you really would like better quality, or that the problem of placing the whole recorder in the best microphone position gets too much, then you can buy better-quality external microphones. The step after that is to use the external microphones with much better pre-amps than those in the portable recorder. And so on you go along the well-worn route of bootstrapping your way up the audio quality chain....
 

Vico

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Mar 28, 2017
Location
Turkey

Boswell

Moderator
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
it's the best logical way to dismiss GAS and learning.
I agree, we shouldn't use black humour.

I don't think any of us was suggesting you go with M-S recording on an H6, which is what your video clip was saying was noisy. Equally, you had not mentioned omni mics either, so we were solidly X-Y in all our suggestions.
 

Vico

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Location
Turkey
Nope no need omni actually, I was thinking some scenarios but cardioid is enough. XY then, I find shotgun one is too aggressive but who knows next, needs gonna show up itself when I experienced.

Thank you guys both of you. Hope see you in other categories later with my noob questions :) no worry I'm digger guy (on internet) before asking someone.

See you and best wishes.
 
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