Pipeorgan recordings----- >3 pieces!!!!

_basso_

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Location
Sweden
Hi!!!
Im wonder if any one.. whant to listen to a recording i'll have done. The organist is from finland Markus Wargh..Now hi is working
in sweden as Cathedralorganist (Lulea) and Consertorganist .

The recording is made with Apogee MiniMe and Rode's NT2-A in omni
mode. A-B setup

And give some tips about the recording if ther is any thing that isin't
good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you guy's out there think about the organist's Markus Wargh
performance as a improvisor.

Hi is very interested of your opinion

Is it to technical or can you enjoy the music ???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for my bad english :oops:
 

_basso_

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Location
Sweden
No! that's allright for me.

yes..i had spaced the microphones little too far apart.

thanks for your time and tips ;)
 

_basso_

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Location
Sweden

ghellquist

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Hello basso,
and a welcome to the group from a fellow Suede. I have learnt tons from the persons around here, and if you are anything like me, you will too.

I think the recording sounds really good. I cannot say I would change a single thing. Or, well, I think I would experiment a lot with mic position. As a matter of taste I would see if there perhaps is a place in the space with a little more direct sound and a little less reverb. I get the impression you might need to have really high mic stands, say organ height or above to find that spot. I would not try to close mic an organ though, I´ve heard them make all kinds of little funny noises. But I have never recorded an organ, so what can I say.

Gunnar Hellquist
(I live in Stockholm)
 

ptr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
Hej Basso,

I record a fair amount organs and listening to your demo-cut I feel that there is a slight loss of center, as Carl wrote (You rearly need to have the mikes more than 1 meter apart).

I also have a feeling that Your prespective is a bit low, how high do You have Your Mikes?
I usualy aim at beeing level with the first row of pipe-mouths. If this is the big Grönlund organ I'd try to have the mikes about 1 to 1.5 meters above the red railing.

The second part of organ microphone placement i how far out in the room You need to be; when the organist is playing, (starting level with the face of the balcony), walk slowly away from the instrument listening for minimum and maximum output nodes. For a starter, put Your mikes where you have the first maximum node (listening point). In some churches this might be to close, if, then You listen for the second maximum node. (Every church is diffrent so there are no given point) - this will also give You a slightly better bass extension then You have on the demo.

The only Grönlund organs I have recorded so far are the ones in Uddevalla and Nybro, their basic sound is quite simmilar.

Keep experimenting, the Röde and the MiniMe sounds surpricingly good!

/ptr
 

zemlin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I lived in Stockholm for 6 months back in '72 - I was 10 years old. My father was doing research at Karolinska. (I have long forgotten most of the Svenska I learned). My dad had a thing for pipe organs, and I went to a number of organ concerts when we were there. I don't remember the names of any of the churches - except one - Storkyrkan in Gamla Stan.

I'd love to have the chance to record an organ like that!

I have not done much with spaced omnis, so my spacing comment might be off base, but I was under the impression that if omnis were too close together you would lose imaging - too far apart and you get a hole in the middle.
 

_basso_

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Location
Sweden
ptr said:
Hej Basso,

I record a fair amount organs and listening to your demo-cut I feel that there is a slight loss of center, as Carl wrote (You rearly need to have the mikes more than 1 meter apart).

I had the mic 3m apart and 4,3m up i space :) I cant get up any higher..

I also have a feeling that Your prespective is a bit low, how high do You have Your Mikes?
I usualy aim at beeing level with the first row of pipe-mouths. If this is the big Grönlund organ I'd try to have the mikes about 1 to 1.5 meters above the red railing.
Yes it is that organ.. we have recorded

The second part of organ microphone placement i how far out in the room You need to be; when the organist is playing, (starting level with the face of the balcony), walk slowly away from the instrument listening for minimum and maximum output nodes. For a starter, put Your mikes where you have the first maximum node (listening point). In some churches this might be to close, if, then You listen for the second maximum node. (Every church is diffrent so there are no given point) - this will also give You a slightly better bass extension then You have on the demo.

The only Grönlund organs I have recorded so far are the ones in Uddevalla and Nybro, their basic sound is quite simmilar.

Keep experimenting, the Röde and the MiniMe sounds surprisingly good!

/ptr
 

ptr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
_basso_ said:
I had the mic 3m apart and 4,3m up i space :) I cant get up any higher..

A bit to far apart, start by comning down to 1 meter and listen to the results. 4.3 meters high seems a bit short in my experience. Unfortunatly it seems like Manfrotto/Bogen has discontinued their 10+meter HighBoy stands, their [="http://www.manfrotto.com/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417"]Avanger A330 SUPER HIGH OVERHEAD Stand[/]. Dunno how much it costs. An alternative is to make extensions Yourself!

/ptr
 
H

hughesmr

Guest
Hi _basso_,

I record a lot of organs, and I think the recording as originally posted sounds excellent. Good job!

I don't personally think there is a detrimental loss of center info....when one hears the smaller Brustwerk (or Schwellwerk?) division, my impression is that the center is firmly anchored .... it is when the Hauptwerk with pedal is being played when you hear image with an apparent 'hole in the middle'. This is really a pretty natural situation, however, since the pedal division is on the flanks of most organs, especially Dutch/Germanic instruments following the 'Werkprinzip' layout of manual and pedal divisions.

I also very much like the ratio of direct to reverberant info: it is very natural to my ears, but without the loss of detail one is likely to encounter "from the pews" in a venue such as this. The mics being a bit "low" is, IMO, OK in this situation because that is more along the lines of the perspective one experiences when in the building. A little higher wouldn't hurt, of course, but the perspective is not so low so that floor reflections or lack of detail in the distant divisions is a problem.

I have literally thousands of organ recordings and have personally heard literally hundreds of organs (in the US and Europe); one cannot get too close when recording these. Well-voiced organs are usually voiced to blend into the resident acoustic such that the sound is pleasing from the floor of the building, and getting too close to even the most beautifully voiced organ will result in unlistenable stuff.

Very nice job. You get an A from me. 8)

Mike
 

_basso_

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Location
Sweden
hughesmr said:
Hi _basso_,

I record a lot of organs, and I think the recording as originally posted sounds excellent. Good job!

I don't personally think there is a detrimental loss of center info....when one hears the smaller Brustwerk (or Schwellwerk?) division, my impression is that the center is firmly anchored .... it is when the Hauptwerk with pedal is being played when you hear image with an apparent 'hole in the middle'. This is really a pretty natural situation, however, since the pedal division is on the flanks of most organs, especially Dutch/Germanic instruments following the 'Werkprinzip' layout of manual and pedal divisions.

I also very much like the ratio of direct to reverberant info: it is very natural to my ears, but without the loss of detail one is likely to encounter "from the pews" in a venue such as this. The mics being a bit "low" is, IMO, OK in this situation because that is more along the lines of the perspective one experiences when in the building. A little higher wouldn't hurt, of course, but the perspective is not so low so that floor reflections or lack of detail in the distant divisions is a problem.

I have literally thousands of organ recordings and have personally heard literally hundreds of organs (in the US and Europe); one cannot get too close when recording these. Well-voiced organs are usually voiced to blend into the resident acoustic such that the sound is pleasing from the floor of the building, and getting too close to even the most beautifully voiced organ will result in unlistenable stuff.

Very nice job. You get an A from me. 8)

Mike



Thank's for that Mike :D
 

John Stafford

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
I love your recordings! I'm interested in the NT2a myself. I also have a Mini-me and have used it with NT5s, although these can sound a little hard in some applications. In the right circumstances though, it's a great combination.

I like the detail in the LDC solid-state Rodes, but have never tried the NT2a. I must say that the Mini-Me never fails to impress me, and it's great to hear that the NT2a works so well with it.

Gunnar, I'm almost certain that I sang with a choir in the church you pictured (2001). If not, it looks very similar -I must try and find the photos I took.

IMHO Stockholm is the most beautiful city in the world (splendour and tastefulness are a combination that one rarely sees outside of Scandinavia!). I love the place so much that I wanted to spend a year on research at KTH, but alas things didn't work out that way :cry:

John
 
T

TomGrubb

Guest
Trio Sonata

Hi Janne,

First of all, I thought your recording works very well - it sounds natural and there is a good sense of space.

I thought the performance was a little bland and breathless though. The Trio Sonatas contain such wonderful melody lines and interaction between the parts - I found it all was glossed over. In such an acoustic there also needs to be time to breath - if wind instruments were playing, they would also have to breath.

Good to hear some Australian microphones being used for organ recordings - my personal choice is the Dutch Sonodore RCM-402, in my opinion the only microphones that capture both the dynamic range and frequency reponse of organs faithfully.

Keep making such good recordings.

Cheers,
Tom

*******************
Thomas Grubb - Organist and Producer
Mano Musica Pty Ltd
Melbourne, Australia
manomusica.com
 

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