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Recording Gear means nothing if we can't stay in business.

Discussion in 'Music Business' started by kef, Dec 6, 2001.

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  1. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Han where IS Nether Netherland?
    :)
    Do people go 'off TC the Wizard'?
    Seriously? Is that an old fashiond way of saying Holland? Forgive me I live in the UK but am American!!!

    Anyhow Jay, yes V little gear in there, just headphone amps / tie lines / pool table / pay phone - when YOU as producer / owner want to use it, you will have to drag a lot of your 'baby studio' in there, your MAIN work room in this senario should be a overdub / mix suite elsewhere with a booth big enough for a Hammond organ / percussionist / small kit, no more..

    Ad agencys have these little 'satelight' studios round a big studio & so do some of those boy band factory style producer teams.. Cept there that main rooms are well stocked, here we are calling it "stripped down".

    Jay, POTENTIAL OTHER USES:
    With the addition of a small PA, check it out.

    Major label act pre prod room - rent it to Korn or The Strokes for 2 months while they run through $*^t with a producer / write their next album, sure they can wheel in a PT rig, who cares what they do in there if they are paying!

    Showcase room, ^#$% it it's a room & a PA and somewhere different..

    Straight rehersal, obviously not a favorite, but when times are hard.....

    Long term rental, you might find, someone (signed act getting album done) will need it for a solid 6 months.

    1) Market it among engineers as a Track n Go space
    2) Market it at the label as a Pre Prod place for hire 'with recording easly possible'
    3) Market among bands as a rehersal / showcase / special party space

    Now you could say thats what you could do with all the mid level tracking studios, but with all their pricey gear lying around, all the above suggestions are too down market... Take the gear out and fortify it to withstand the Tasmanian Devil / dont give a $*^t musicians, and you have a good all purpous rock n roll 'Romper Room' (have the name Jay!)

    :w:
     
  2. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    "How about this: 3 rooms + a vocal booth, a rack of Vintech pre's, Ramsa DA-7 for playback &, possibly, for its basic compressors & better-than-most converters, & an MX2424. Then open a gear-for-hire shop next door. "

    NO house multitrack, (naturally the owning producer/engineer will have his own multitrack, so he is covered for one when using the space, they just have to wheel it in.)

    Looms in the CR to fit ANY system...

    Just the central Trident (even that MUST be removable in case they want to bring in their own $*^t)

    This would suit in a major city with rental available, or a studio / group of studios that has a good gear pool to select from and needed Large tracking from time to time...(but not most times)

    :)
     
  3. sign

    sign Guest

    Happy new year Jules, it's 01:40 1.1.2002 in Holland now.

    I guess I'm a little drunk but anyway, Nether Netherland is the lowest part of the Netherlands :)

    Cheers :w:
     
  4. osmuir

    osmuir Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    an alternate idea, which i would kill for, is a "blank" mix room. some where w/little gear at all, just good cabling/patch opptions, clean power and GREAT acoustics. i find i do a lot of location recording, because that is easier to find and can be done more comfortably w/out "studio time" pressure in a clients house, etc, but finding a decent place to mix a low budget project for a daw guy like me is HARD. you could then rent the gear too, if you wanted. all nice and in house.

    wheel out the crappy playback mixer and the ties to the other room, charge higher rate, track and go room.

    what do you think?

    --owen

    --owen
     
  5. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2001
    I have been kicking a similar idea around with some local studios whose owners are friends of mine- get 2-3 studios together, and rent a big warehouse space. Buy a grand worth of 2x4's and some sheeting, and another $500 worth of burlap and 703, get together for a couple of weekends, and build a serviceable control room, a booth or two, and some wall hanging and rolling gobos. Have everyone sign on to pay a fraction of the rent, and book on a first come first serve basis.

    We were thinking of paying equally for time when the room wasn't used, with each studio paying a larger share per day when the rooms were used. Rent it on slow nights for practice, with seperate locks on the control room.

    Control room would either have a digital multitrack that was compatible with everyone, or no recorder at all. One of these guys has a big 600 series MCI he's upgrading from, and that might go in, or we'd find a 32 channel Soundcraft 600 or something- basically something that wouldn't piss us off too bad, and had enough sends for a good headphone system. Stick some 811's or 813's in a wall, have a pair of cheap nearfields lying around, and the rest would be a la carte.

    With big warehouse space pretty plentiful here in Hampton Roads, it might be workable.
     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Anything to survive..

    Think multi usage

    :)
     
  7. Bob Olhsson

    Bob Olhsson Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Location:
    Nashville TN
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    Originally posted by owen muir:
    an alternate idea, which i would kill for, is a "blank" mix room. some where w/little gear at all, just good cabling/patch opptions, clean power and GREAT acoustics.

    --owen


    The problem is that the overhead of such a room would still be in the ballpark of a comparable room with a Neve. The studio business is all about personnel, comfort and convenience. Gear only has to do with the latter and is by far the cheapest thing to provide.

    I think of it as being a lot like the restaurant business. The big fast food chains have taken over the low-end exactly as project studio gear manufacturers have taken over the low-end of recording. The question becomes "would a master chef be willing to cook gourmet food in a McDonalds' kitchen." Most I know would simply ask "why bother?"
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    "I think of it as being a lot like the restaurant business"

    Think "the studio version of a picnic table" or a camp site.

    :)

    Jules
     
  9. Uncle E

    Uncle E Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    If Chinese people could, we'd keep our restaurants open 24-hours, 365 days a year because we figure that the rent is being charged that whole time, anyway, & we don't like to spend our money wastefully! ;)
     
  10. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Originally posted by Julian Standen:

    NO house multitrack, (naturally the owning producer/engineer will have his own multitrack, so he is covered for one when using the space, they just have to wheel it in.)


    I don't know. I'd throw a 2" deck in there. An MM1200, JH-24 or even an MTR-90 MkII isn't all that expensive and most people probably couldn't be bothered to rent one and drag it in for a week. Besides, most decks take a few days to stabalize after being moved. If you wanted, keep it as an in-house rental for $100 a day.
     
  11. noelhartough

    noelhartough Guest

    Hey guys. Without boring you with the sultry details of my life...I bring a different perspective to your discussion. I recorded demos for atlantic, and a record which was released on Columbia records. We recorded in studios of many levels. I was privy to alot of the POLITICS of how producers get in bed with studios with an eye towards getting kick backs. I believe that credibility comes from having a "creative" guy connect with an artist, and the studio and its staff becomes a vehicle for those creative possibilities. See, I now work for my own management company. (we manage Creed and Sevendust among others). I see the promo packs from artists every day. We also get courted alot by high end studios. Because the digital thing is happening, looking at specs and tracks is deceiving. Artists, as a rule do not know anything but things like it's tape or pro-tools. Or 16..24 trk, etc.. Artist are impressed by vibe and sonic impressiveness. If you have a great producer(not necessarily well known) take somebody in to a studio, like for a spec deal, they will like that studio if they like the result of the session with the producer. Also, we worked in some big, ritzy studios, where the staff were dicks to us...and we didn't go back for mix, even though they had a J-9000, and all the outboard gear you could shake a stick at.
    Ultimately, for me, the experience of recording in studios showed me that you would do well to find a good producer/songwriter and work a deal with him so that he gains from bringing a project to your studio. There is back scratching going on, but that's what separates the men from the boys. I did my first label demos with a friend name John Kurzweg. We did it in his house on adat's. My manager wanted me to use somebody to bring my work to the next level. I didn't care if we went to 2" tape or adat, as long as the music spoke for itself. John just happened to have that gear at that time. You all seem to be geniuses at engineering. Business is always going to be business. Music will always be about relationships. It's alchemy for studios. Translating creative energy into a physical recording for an amount of money the client can live with. Studios can have pissing contests all day long about gear, room accuracy, etc... But creative relationships are really what drive people on the end that I see. There are defineately undercutting studios who sweep in and get projects for little money. You can't undercut talent and vibe. You can build a client base from a relationship with a guy that inspires artists. Your room rates, equipment and the rest can just be a part of the package too. Thanks for listening to my rambling.
     
  12. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Well I am always glad to see studio politics mentioned here. I think you will find that good threads on non technical issues are just as popular. Any way to get ahead..

    Cutting deals is a clever thing to do, reaching out to local producers is one example..

    On my own initiative I have 'reached out' and made deals with the owners of 4 studios, the situations I organised with those studios and owners spanned 6 or so years..and made a major contribution to keep all involved afloat. In all cases I was basicaly a stranger to each owner to begin with..

    My deal in all cases was (to the studio owner)

    "look, I can bring acts in, lets call it a daily rate where my part of it is a secret, known only to you and I" YOU bill for the time, when you get paid, pay me immeadiatly"

    They loved it, one small studio owner once shook his head, saying "jeez, Jules, how the hell do you get away with charging SO MUCH for my studio!"

    Other variations are just to get the studio at a private cheap rate.

    But often it was a case of studio and producer just eking out a living..

    Deals are good,

    :)
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2001
    Location:
    Sunny & warm NC
    Home Page:
    ...I bring a different perspective to your discussion.

    A rather refreshing one IMHO

    But creative relationships are really what drive people on the end that I see. There are defineately undercutting studios who sweep in and get projects for little money. You can't undercut talent and vibe. You can build a client base from a relationship with a guy that inspires artists. Your room rates, equipment and the rest can just be a part of the package too. Thanks for listening to my rambling.[/QUOTE]

    Nice ramble... I think that all too often we are quick to covey to clients that we "got da' hot $*^t gear now deliver"... which is what I DIDN'T get in this for in the first place.

    I got hooked on the gear, for sure... I'm a gear slut, I'll admit it. But the gear and room are only half of it. The magic has to be able to happen in the other room before it can happen in the room with all the fancy knobs and lights.

    There are a couple of studios around here who I understand are just about having to GIVE time away to get repeat or even first time clients... while there are a couple of studios in the area who are booked solid through next year and are hoping that they can just have enough time off for maintenance work and upgrades.

    Then too, I think the geographic market and the quality of the music scene in different area are driving forces behind clients accepting different levels of quality.

    my .02 which probably ain't worth that much...
     
  14. sjoko

    sjoko Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Cool thread.
    Even tough .... having read all the posts I feel very comfortable in proclaiming myself a deranged individual, a lunatic, many more words come to mind but you get the picture :)
     
  15. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Home Page:
    Actually that was a good post with some upfront honesty.
     
  16. noelhartough

    noelhartough Guest

    I like the post where he talks about being in a service business. I like the idea of having your facility be that flexible. I think that having the artist do stuff at home and then come in and utilize the big boy stuff is a WIN-WIN situation.
    Really great idea.
     
  17. Ted Nightshade

    Ted Nightshade Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Tell me more about EQ by rope. How does that work?
    Ted
     
  18. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    They use rope in India a lot in studios.

    The old Indian rope trick.

    :D

    It's a SECRET!
     
  19. r :eek: The trouble is it's so easy to get a recording setup these days. I'm a poor student so I don't have a lot of money for gear or hiring out a project studio for my demos. So what do I do?
    Well for a start I download Free Pro Tool on my imac Then using my built in sound card I record. Instant eight track set up. Of course have a load of sound modules and a mixer helps but it's becoming that easy these days why pay for studio hire ?
     
  20. osmuir

    osmuir Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    if you are really serious: you want it to sound good.

    studios offer
    1. better acoustic environments, for assessing how good yr mix is.
    2. better gear.
    3. EXPERIENCED ENGINEERS who actualy have it be their job to make stuff sound good.

    you can build yr own sports car, yet people still buy them...huh.

    --owen
     
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