Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by Girlytech, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    Hi all,
    I'm currecntly preparing my system for a live recording on Saturday night.
    I have a digi 001 running on a mac G4 with Protools LE.

    We will have two vocals tracks and two keyboard tracks, we're planning on running the 4 channels out of the Mackie mixer straight to the digi001 ie - analog 3 4 5 6.
    In protools I have created 3 sessions for three sets with 4 tracks in each session to match the above outs from the mixer, I plan on recording each song over them selves ie layering up the regions and i'll export the data later for mixing. (i'll keep track of song order and therefore know the regions for that song) Does this sound OK??
    We was hoping to use a footswitch to initaite recording each song on and off, therefore I need to be in punch record mode???

    My problems are:
    1- Getting the footswitch idea to work. Punch mode on a test did'nt work due to system resources ie it tried to build the regions and the 'increase hardware buffer size' message came up. maybe we'll have to use the keyboard ie space bar or no. 3 on numeric pad??

    2 - Record enable goes off each time recording is stopped, ie after each song, again it looks like we'll need to use the keyboard to start each recording??

    3 - I have calcualted that I will need around 6-7gig to do the night, this is with breaks between songs ie stop and start recording as long as I have allowed enough room on my harddrive will there be any problems ie session limits etc, will my system handle it??

    We do not have any one to assist.... we have to perform as well as iniatate recording functions, I would really like to get this to work if anybody has any tips please let me know it would be appreciated.

    Please help.....
    I'll let you know how it goes.
    Trudy (girlytech) :D
  2. Scoobie

    Scoobie Active Member

    Sep 6, 2006

    I record live shows and do it alittle different. I always put up a couple of mics over the crowd(room mic's). It is a live proformance so it needs to sound like one. You don't have to use them in the mix, but it can add alot of life to a live recording, sometimes.

    Far as the Mac and Protools LE. I'm sure they will do just fine if set up right. I can't answer on that because I use a PC and Sampulitude . I do have everthing set up prior to the show . I just hit record and let it run for the whole set. 45 or 50 min. I have gone alittle over an Hour with no problems. (My PC runs smooth, no hicups). I do use a new drive for every show.

    Hope everting truns out alright for you.

  3. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I use a 001 for live recordings

    add an ada8000 and record 14 lines from the stage + two audience mics.
    I use 16 Mic to line amps and split to the recording and the other to the FOH +Monitor mixes.

    Record the whole show with out breaks ... I gues I would record the 3 sets as seperate sessions.

    no stop start and no changes to gain unless you must
    ... post edit/mix is just like mixing the show live
    except you get to do it in the comfort of your home.
  4. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    Thanks Guys 8) ....looks like an easy answer to my problems, I just need to make sure I have enough hard drive space.
    So as long as there is room for the data protools has no limits?? It can record until the drive is full??
    We will do three 1 hour sets Sat Night, I will set up three different sessions.......on the final mix I can cut out any unwanted time between songs ie fade in and fade out the crowd noise etc.
    I will add another mic and put it over the crowd for some crowd noise, I thought maybe I could use my old Shure Beta58 for that, I wouldn't need my studio mic would I???
    I need to free up some more space on my hardrive, it is pretty full I hav e around 8 gig left I could sit some data on my other drive or maybe even my ipod on the night??
  5. mark_van_j

    mark_van_j Active Member

    Oct 28, 2005
    Maribor, Slovenia
    As long as the hard drive has space, PT can record... I've done 90 minute shows with no hiccups at all, on a mac. You will however have to remember that around 15 channels for an hour at 24/48 will take up about 10GB.

    As far as crowd mics go, try using a condenser. It will be quieter and it will sound better. Any cheap condenser should do the job.
  6. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    I've use cheap Tandy/Realistc PZM's for audience mics

    Get an audio drive
    big 80+ IDE's
    and or
    250 SATA's
    are cheap enough these days

    use a firewire case or better still get the IDE drive inside the G4 on a real port
  7. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    After the great advise I ran a check ie 1 hour 5 minutes of straight recording with no problems, Using 5 tracks...which is what will I need for the night, and I used around 2.5GB, I'm pretty pleased with that, we will do three 1 hour sets I'll use three seperate sessions....
    So it looks like the plan is going to come together.....I'm pretty excited, I'm wondering how the final mix will work, I'm presuming I'll use a fair amount of effect to give the live sound and cover those lettle things you don't hear on a live PA ie big breathing, grunting, burping etc :p

    Re: HD space...I have 8GB on my audio HD, 16GB on my IPOD and 18.7GB on my 2nd Hard drive on my mac so I could move some data around on the night if required.

    I will use my Rhode NTK studio mic for crowd noise, I'm prettty sure I can mount it (somehow) above the dance floor, which will be ideal for crowd noise, it will also pick up our front house during songs, should I allow for this for use in the final mix ie to give live sound??? It would change the input levels if I allowed for that??
  8. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    I am right on track with Kev from Australia. Right down to those Tandy/Radio Shaft PZM's for audience microphones.

    Honestly I don't think you want to use your Rode NTK as an audience microphone? You would do better with a small diaphragm condenser microphone and an Omni at that, for audience ambience. Don't forget to include the high pass filtering so as to eliminate some of the boom in the box (venue room).

    Still, buy yourself a dedicated external USB hard drive used strictly for recording your audio to. And always, defragment the drive before you start recording. Once you're done recording, defragment the hard drive. When you are done with the recording and mixing, defragment your self by tossing back a pint or 2?

    Defragmented beyond comprehension
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  9. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    Can any one tell me how to get that live sound on the final mix?
    Considering we will have a flat recroding ie... raw uneffected signal from the mixer outs.
    Are there any tricks? :?
  10. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    Thanks Remy......What does defrag do?
  11. Scoobie

    Scoobie Active Member

    Sep 6, 2006

    Some people swear by defraging there drive, but i usally don't defrag my audio drives. I guess there could be a difference in Mac and PC but I never seem to see an improvment in proformance when defraging an audio drive. It seems like it could put files in places that might make thing preform worse. Besides I have hotswap drive bays, change them out for ever project. Someone please correct me on defraging audio drives. Like to hear reasons why its best to defrag audio drive.

    Far as audience mic's, I use a pair of Oktava MK-012-01 that I bought from Guitar Center for $200.00 . I bought them for Overhead mic's and didn't like them so these made the perfect crowd mic's for live recordings.
    I did buy another pair of the real Oktava's(russian made) and use them for my drum Overheads. I give three times that for the real pair than I bought the ones from Guitar Center.

    Far as trick for your mixing. A good room verb will help . I don't use PTLE so don't know what plugs you have. Your recording will sound live even though your recording raw tracks. If your audience mics are placed right. You'll have the sound of the venue<~~~~~~~~(room verb)your playing in. Those mics can make a recording.

  12. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    Scoobie your a gem! :cool:
    That was the exact info I was after.
    RE - crowd/room mic I don't have time to purcahse any new mics, would my Rhode NTK be to good for the job?I also have a couple of dynamic mics ie Beta58 & SM58, which do you reckon I should use?

    Our front house is pretty full on ie loud!!!! The place I would be able to set up the crowd/room mic/s is around 3-5m from the centre of the front house, and it will be roof hieght....will this work OK do you think?

    Presumably when setting levels we'll have to pump out a pretty loud sound check to make sure they don't clip??
    We'll have around 400-500 people and they can make a lot of noise, we'll need to allow for this...I will keep an eye on the screen for clipping early in the night.

    FYI - I will be singing on a wireless Beta87A, my band partner on a wired Beta58.
  13. Scoobie

    Scoobie Active Member

    Sep 6, 2006
    For audience mic's I have better luck with small diaphragm condensers. So with the mic's you have at hand, I would use the Beta58's. I really can't offer any good advice on placement not knowing the venue your playing at. But don't place them to far up , you won't get the audience. Watch placeing them to close to FOH speakers also. I would try to put them just high enough that no one could reach them, and where you know that they would pick up the audience.

    I would also use the Rhode. Have someone walk around the venue while doing your sound check. Put it where they think it sounds best. It might not work in the mix because of the delay, but then it might add to the recording. Who knows? I have a few extra long mic cables just for room Mic's.

    Live recording can be fun.........It would be worth it to rent a pair of small diaphragm condenser for the nite for your audience mic's. Think about that one.

    Peace .............Scoobie
  14. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest

    I'll work on setting both mics ie rhode and it the noise level that doesn't work well with the rhode? would it damage the diaphram? I will work on getting it as far back from the front house as possible, I'll have to hunt down some leads.
    I appreciate your input.....and will definatley let you know how I go. :)
  15. Girlytech

    Girlytech Guest


    Hi Scoobie and Co..
    Well it's done :cool: , and all worked quiet well I think, I haven't had a lot of time in the studio with the data but at a glance it sounds pretty good.
    We used two ambient mics ie the Rode NTK out in the room and the Shure beta58 over the dance floor...apart from some music clipping on some songs from the input gain on the mixer all is good, (this was not in protools but on the mixer if that makes sense) now I can see what you mean about the small diaphram condenser mic....the rode tended to warble with the big sound, the dynamic mic over the dance floor has worked well for picking up crowd noise ie them's great! We had the best night, I was so pumped because we we're recording and they all got right into it, woof whistles....they chanted our name ....and we went off :)
    So now all I have to do is the mix......any tips???
    I imagine I will mute the ambient mics during the songs to cut out crowd chatter and bring them in when I want to hear them sing/cheering etc.
    I'm yet to spend some time on it...I'll keep you posted.
    I'm keen for any mixing tips :D
  16. tomeh

    tomeh Guest

    Mixing the live recording

    1. If I want as close too what it really sounded like, bring up the supporting tracks, drums, bass etc., position them, then vocals with enough headroom to be able to understand them, then stereo tracks out with compression in at 0db, 3:1, fast attack and fast release, then my Roland SRV3030D in "Stereo Room" modeling with only enough to make it believable as a the room that night. Bring in the "room" mics at the end of each number, just as the song is ending.
    Let the dynamics come through without choking it to death.

    2. If you want something manufactured, get out the Protools,whip cream, candy and effects and go to town.

    3. Don't forget to have fun. :D

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