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Roland vs. 1880 - transferring individual tracks onto other machine to be mixed and mastered m

Discussion in 'Digital Recorders' started by Jonathan Larkin, Sep 9, 2019.

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  1. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Hyde, England
    Hi @Jonathan Larkin

    One of the overarching reasons I personally gave up on my VS1880 was to get the bigger screen. I eventually got a nice controller too and now I get the feeling of the Vs with none of the restrictions. I’m not sure if you realise but a lot of us are getting on in years that do recording and have adapted to DAW based computers. The level of difficulty is actually lower than the VS in things like garage band on a Mac or some others on PC. You would be surprised how that would change your recording world.

    Tony
     
  2. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Hey Jonathan,
    I was on the impression you would only transfer your old recordings and wanted to mix them in the computer.
    If recording new songs is the target, I'd get the manual on my night table and go through it. with these units you need to dive in or you don't.
    As for the small screen, I don't know ; magnifiying glass ??

    The alternative is to transfer everything to a computer and retire or sell the 1880.
    Then buy a nice audio interface and record new stuff directly to the computer. Audient, RME or the low budget FOcusrite and presonus...
     
  3. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    i assume you are asking about the Tascam. the 24 can be used with a computer as an interface or it can be used in stand alone mode. but you can't do both at the same time. for instance, you can record to the SD card in stand alone mode and then transfer the files to a computer for editing. you then have the option of continuing in the computer while you use the Tascam as an interface. or you can take the files in the computer and transfer them back into the 24 and mix it from there.

    Soundcraft makes the MTK series mixers that interface directly into a computer, however you don't get the stand alone recording capabilities of the Tascam.
     
  4. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    Hi , thanks for reply - everything i want to do will be new recordings - and i have around 3 grand to spend on equipment and i would plan on spending some time with very necessary help from utube vidoes , other knowledgeable folks in my area - either for hire or out of the goodness of their hearts . so , again i`m a solo musician who plays multiple acoustic instruments - i only use 1 track / channel for recording at a time - i usually end up with about 10 tracks at a time - i then of course mix them down and clumsily master them down on to a c.d. In recording i 1st lay down a click track [ built in metronome ] sync my kick drum to it and use that as the beat reference to all future tracks - i use punch ins quite a bit as well as moving measures of music around and looping. that`s the extent of edit functions i need As far as effects go - i would only use them in mix down and that would be just reverb and equalization but i might try other things . If the mix doesn`t sound right then i would find an engineer - i would probably use an engineer anyway for mastering. I`m also planning on buying a computer - lap top would be ideal - as far as selling the 1880 - i have 3 of them in good working condition - but i don`t think i could get much beyond 500 bucks for all of them combined . But anyway , i would be very interested in knowing from you or any one else what you would buy if you were in my shoes . My ultimate goal is to make a somewhat pro recorded , sellable , album for a local and niche audience .
     
  5. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    I should emphasize that i am fairly technically challenged but i am pretty good with 1 finger on the keyboard
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    do any of your keyboards sample?
     
  7. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    i don`t do samples or do any keyboard stuff. - i am totally old school except for looping and moving musical phrases around - but thanks for continued conversation and help
     
  8. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    Okay - i meant keyboard for writing as i am doing right now
     
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  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    what i'm getting at is there are phrase loopers and samplers that you can use to move things around. that's the way we used to do it before computers came along and loused up the world. that's why i wondered if you had a sampler already.
     
  10. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Location:
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    My take on it is this. For no frills recording and simplicity the all in one is probably the way to go. Especially since the tascam doubles as an audio interface, you get the best of both work flows. I would reccomend you check out the akai mpcx too.

    If ultimate sound quality (at least in specs), and easy editing and mixing, is the goal an interface and daw is the way to go. Since you don't need alot of channels in and out, you can get a very high quality interface within your budget.

    Having not compared directly the quality of the tascam or others to high quality interfaces i can only go by the specs, which dont necessarily tell the whole story, and especially the subjective side of things. I do think that standalone recorders sound better than daws at equal price points. A little 300$ zoom seems to sound more solid to me than a 300$ interface. Although the closest ive come to a truly commercial quality recording, was at a commercial studio with a daw, and the once elite apogee rosetta. Reguardless of specs and age that thing still has a great sound.

    I personally err towards a daw even as a solo mucisian doing one or two tracks at a time. Since mixing and editing are large parts of my process its the best way for. I also lean heavily on soft synths and midi programming at home which is a no brainer for me with cost and physical space being the main consideration.

    I still enjoy the cassette based tascam portastudio and its quality is fine for me with acoustic singer/songwriter stuff i can play in one take. If thats all i did, id probably not bother with a computer, just a good pre amp and mic, (maybe eq and compresser too).

    Theres alot of options for computers and interfaces at various price points, quality levels, and feature sets. Another thing to consider is the life span of a daw/interface is about 10 years at the high end. High end will typically still be better, even when entry level catches up to spec. The focusrite scarlett still does not sound like an apogee rosetta despite similar spec and prices, and the rosetta being nearly 15 years old.

    Computer life spans are increasing since moores law is coming to and end. And computers are much further ahead of the daw curve than they were until 2012, where a daw was sure to devour even a premium workstation. With 6 core (12 thread) laptops available for 800$, 6 core (6 thread) desktops for 400$, and cores reaching over 4ghz, and crazy fast nvme ssd drives, there is alot of computing power available in the sub 1k range, and a blistering amount for 1k if you roll your own.

    Fortunately in your case you dont require a high power pc. A nice ($800) msi laptop with its nvme drive, 6 core/12 thread intel chip, and room for a second drive internally for audio, 32gb ram capacity, would really suit your needs for a while. Your more likely to have to replace it due to some sort of hardware incompatibility like if windows went to 128bit, than replace it because it ran out of power. I could do 10 tracks on 366mhz pentuim 2 system from the mid 90's!!

    It comes down to your preferred workflow and desired quality level. I would say tracking is simpler on a standalone, producing a start to finish project at home is probably better suited to a daw.
     
  11. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I worked with a 32ch mixer for a while with converters and got tired of the space and ordinary sound it got me . 3K mixer gets you near 50$ per preamps worth of quality.
    So I went with an interface with included preamps and I also grow out of them by starting to buy external preamps. Got the interface updated over the year to my actual setup.

    The questions you should be asking yourself is :
    what level of quality do you expect to achieve ?
    How many simultanous channels do you need ? (Guitar and voc (3 ch), recording drums (8ch) or full band (20ch))

    If all you ever want to to do is compose and some demos and you already have a computer, I'd go with a small interface and a few mics
    If you want the best sound and want to record full bands, your 3 grand will fall short. way short...

    Good quality for the price : Audient interfaces and preamp units. Also RME is worth mentionning.
    Lower priced highend preamps : Focusrite ISA

    For acoustic guitar and voc, I would go with an Audient I22 (500$) with a ISA one (540$) with the digital card (429$).
    Then a matched pair SDC like the Warm Audio WA-84 Stereo Pair - Black (750$) and the Mojave Audio MA-301fet (800$)
    There goes your 3K :)
     
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  12. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    i`m only talking about mixer/interface and computer - i`m already covered with mics and pre amp - black lion pre amp - mohave - tube mic , some large condenser mic. [ forgot name ] beyer dynamic - ribbon , 57`s, 58`s , etc. and I own three vs. 1880 roland recorders. my quest is to only be able to transfer individual tracks from Roland to a more modern apparatus for mixing/mastering by some one else or possibly myself. I would be up for changing around my recording apparatus if it means making it easier to get my tracks mixed . yes - i want a good sound , i thought what i got out of the roland was decent enough . I only need 2 channels for my needs . Thanks for input and any further recommendations - very much appreciated.
     
  13. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    This is good info to start with.

    I have no doubt the Roland can record ok..
    But converter qualities have immensely gone better since 2002..
    I guess even you were searching for better when you bought the black lion preamp.
    I never tried one, but the black lion isn't said to be the best preamp around either.

    2 channels seems a bit limited for me, since I always record guitars with 2 mics (electrics too) , if you want to record the vocal at the same time.

    I was mentionning the ISA preamp because they give 80db of clean gain with a touch of mojo. For quiet instruments or driving a ribbon mic, they are stellar.
    I got 8 of them you see...

    But in your situation and budget, you could well enough go for a small interface like an audient and gift your vocal with a nice channel strip.
    The important thing is to get an interface that allows a direct path to converter connectivity. Sending a good preamp to another preamp is just wasting the goodness if you see what I mean.
    So maybe the Audient ID44 and a Universal audio LA-610 ? you'd be surprised how good even a SM57 sounds through these !! ;)
    Like the Roland, recording to a computer also have a learning curve. .But once in the box it's easier to send your recordings to an ME or backup drives and use more compatible file formats, like waves..

    Of course I only see this from my point of view. I record solo artists and full bands who expect the best for the price they pay !
     
  14. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    thanks - i might just go your suggested route - the universal audio pre amp sounds great as long as most of my recording
     
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  15. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    as long as most of my recording is mono - which vast majority is - if i do 2 tracks than i could still use the black lion - still need to look into a d.a.w. . thanks so much for info.
     
  16. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    Hello , what are your thoughts about garage band ?- thinking mostly about quality of sound - sounds like it would be the easiest daw. to learn on -thanks
     
  17. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Hyde, England
    Quality of sound is based on interface, source and skill more than anything.
     
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  18. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Garage band sounds good, alot of people use it from hobbyist to pro.
     
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  19. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2019
    Location:
    east falmouth, ma
    thanks for all replies and info - i`ve done a little research - although it looks like it`s possible to still use roland vs, 188o and transfer tracks to computer 2 at a time - very slowly i understand and then i`m guessing syncing all tracks together [ 10] could be challenging for some one like me . does not seem worth it for future recordings when the quality would probably be sub par. I`m thinking an audient 114 into an i mac desk . If anybody has any thoughts on that i`d appreciate replies as always - oh yeah - the daw - for now just garage band as i`m as dumb as a bag of rocks when it comes to computery stuff. Big Thanks again
     
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  20. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Hyde, England
    @Jonathan Larkin you will find Garage band still a lot more useful than the VS, and more than capable of making a finished song. I suggest looking at tutorials on YouTube for it.

    If I remember I’ll find one of the most popular GarageBand based YouTube gurus for you to watch, or just search :). There’s a lot out there and it will teach you from very basic all the way up.

    Found him as promised.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/GaragebandandBeyond

    Check this guy out :).

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
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