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Roland vs. 1880 - transferring individual tracks onto other machine to be mixed and mastered m

Discussion in 'Digital Recorders' started by Jonathan Larkin, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    The audient iD14 is a good choice. Even at this size the 2 onboard preamps are of the same quality of their classical consoles. (Way better than most small audio interfaces)
    It also has an Adat input if you ever want more input channels..

    Another audient product that promise great things is the Audient Sono.. twice the price, but if you play and record electric guitars having a valve stage to the recording interface seems like a genious idea ! .. It has 2 preamps like the ID14 and can receive adat units..

    It's a great Idea to start with something simple with garage band, either it will be everything you need or you will outgrow it and be better equiped to choose your next DAW..
     
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  2. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Ive never used audient, but they have a good reputation. Warren Huart (produce like a pro) did a YouTube video where he compares the pres on a small audient interface with the ones at Sunset Sound, a famous studio. Its a good peek into the audients quality.
     
  3. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    a lot of us around here are probably more concerned about pre amp quality than the average bear. unless you are producing audio for clients who are delivering product to the commercial market this kind of equipment is most likely overkill.

    Audiant makes some great gear. note the ID44 is powered by a 12.5 volt wall wart so i would be skeptical as to if it performs as well as the pres in their large format consoles. i have yet to encounter a mic pre powered by low volt wall warts that delivered. still i am sure they are "fine". they work and they sound ok but there is going to be a lack of dimension and headroom with the low volt swing these boxes employ.

    the question is whether you even care about things like that. this is stuff that people who are absolutely obsessed about audio are into. you may very well be perfectly happy with the mic pres in a Roland or Tascam product and there's nothing wrong with that. if they work for you, that's all you need. don't throw your money away on things you don't even hear just because everyone else is all hopped up about them. only you can decide what's "good enough".
     
  4. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    I guess I'm one of those.. thanks for the reality check ;)
     
  5. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    Actually it is a id14 if that makes a difference ,After talking to the sweetwater guy - i ended up getting an apollo mk 11 - i guess that might be more overkill too. Anyway - my philosophy is better overkill than underkill if you can afford it - my wife always complains that i make too much food when cooking for guests. anyway , the headroom thing - oh well - i`m guessing it will sound better than roland vs.1880 . thanks for informative response
     
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  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    congratulations on your purchase. you made a good choice especially since you are already running a Mac computer. the Apollo should deliver great performance for many years to come. (y)
     
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  7. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    The appolo is a great choice.. Thanks for sharing your decision and please come back to share your experience with it.. even audio samples would be nice.. ;)
     
  8. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Apollo is a good choice. One thind that concerns me is you got the mkii not the new apollo x? Sweetwater is notorius for selling customers old model digital stuff for a very very small discount. They closeout stuff at the end of its life span and demo units whenever the new model comes out or is about to. The issue is the discount doesnt reflect the age or resale value of the product.

    The apollo x 6ch unit is the a great value in interfacing right now. Its got very high spec conversion and 50% dsp power, and will retain its resale value much longer than the mkii. The mkii is "already" 4 years old, and a minor update to the 6-7 year old first edition apollo. Conversion has about a 10 year life span at the higher end and the apollo and mkii are essentially the same unit, and nearing the end of their life span.

    Ive had to adress this issue with my sales engineer after he tried to sell me several items that became discontinued soon after. He also sold my cousin a 1200$ alesis keyboard, which became discontinued within a year, and mackie speakers hr824 first edition, wich also became discontinued within a year when the mk2 version came out.

    Since addressing this ive not been reccomended these "deals" by my salesperson.

    Besides being obsessed with audio, im obsessed with maximizing financial efficiency, and performance per dollar.

    Unless this mk2 apollo was more than 30% cheaper than the state of the art apollo x, its a bad deal.

    Not trying to rain on your parade, rather make sure the sun shines with your new purchase.

    The exception is if you got the apollo twin duo, mkii. Since the new twins havent come out yet, the duo is a decent option. If you got the quad, the apollo x 6ch blows it out of the water.
     
  9. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

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    If he is talking about the Apollo mk2 perhaps it’s the usb 2 input model he means ?, rather than the rack units.
     
  10. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Yeah, that's what I assumed, the appolo twin mkII ...
     
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  11. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    (Just fyi) The mkii is only available in TB. Usb users have to stick with the mk1. They really sorta left usb users in the back seat.
     
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  12. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

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    Ahh yes, you’re right of course, I forgot :-/. As of course I’m on a silverface with TB3 upgrade.

    Cheers
     
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  13. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    well- here`s the deal - apollo t smk11 , 2x6 apollo tb int / uad2 , 1 x dsp - $ 54o.60. Don`t fully understand some of that , but i do i have 2 weeks to return . i could return and get the x if it would make somewhat of a difference - thanks in advance for any opinions.
     
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  14. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    then and again maybe this is the x.
     
  15. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Honestly the specs between twins are very similar, and the mkii has the best spec on the line outs. I read an article recently where the producer used the apollo twin to record stuff that was for a commercial record, and i think coldplays engineer used apollo as well for stuff.

    Heres what it comes down to, for me. The limitation on your unit is the single dsp chip vs 2 or 4 dsp chips. If your doing just 10 tracks, and your mixes are stay straightforward, the single chip should cover you. I personally think that the unit you have is a good value (bang for the buck) generally.

    If you envision using some of the amplifier simulators, or glitzy neve EQ emulations, or pre-amp emulations. The unit with 2 dsp chips would serve you better, again with modest mixing effects. This is still a good value.

    As soon as you jump up the 4 dsp chips you get a fairly robust amount of effects in the mix and realtime the 4 chips become necessary. But this is poor value compared with the apollo x, which has a significant increase in dsp and audio. So for alot of effects the X is the best value.

    The X makes sense if you want to track a full band at once, as well as have alot of effects.

    All that said since the twin has adat in, you can add external pres that way, and any unit would necessitate an external pre amp unit for the extra mics.

    So to me the ins and outs are adaquate in all units, it just comes down to dsp. Based on your intended use and experience level, id lean towards you got the right unit. If you think mixing your band or doing 'final' mixes is in your future, the extra 260$ on the twin with 2 dsp chips is not frivolous imho.

    Im the type of guy who pushes things, so ive learned to adjust my purchases and expectations accordingly, having lost alot on incremental upgrades and impatience.

    I feel like you probably have something thats "just right", that you can settle into, but could grow out of. That said with your nice imac theres alot of power for mixing effects as you learn. And frankly, less is often more when it comes to effects.

    I think you'll be happy with what you have. If however you like to have a fair amount of reverbs or delays, especially while your tracking you'll want that second dsp chip. Those eat a ton of processing.

    Congrats on your purchase! You got a very nice unit that should be a ton of fun, and serve you well. Hopefully you'll post some recordings you do, its always good to hear. Cheers!

    Just fyi:

    Dsp usage chart % usage for a single chip.

    https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/215262223?mobile_site=true
     
  16. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Hopefully Tony @Makzimia can chime in on dsp usage, i think he does alot of acoustic based stuff.
     
  17. Makzimia

    Makzimia The Minstrel Well-Known Member

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    @Jonathan Larkin that’s not X. An Apollo X model is a lot more expensive and a rack unit. Here’s my take, what it’s worth. If you intend to use UAD for your journey you really want 2 DSPs at the very least. There are some available plugins that will eat 85% of one DSP in one instantiation. If you print each track at recording time you could of course get by, but, you’ll learn it’s not a great idea to print the effects all the time during the console recording time.

    UAD plug-ins particularly the preamps and amp type ones make what the Apollo is all about. I record acoustic guitar and vocals at the same time all the time. Unison technology which helps the Apollo emulate the vintage models is in use each time I put a preamp or channel strip or amp in.

    Make sure you don’t dive in too shallow is all I can say. Find a cost level you can really afford. Keep in mind the best choice is going to be one that will stay with you for many years to come.

    Don’t overwhelm yourself with anything you won’t use either, because that will stop your progress. In the future we are here. Can help a little, and there is more information than you’ll ever be able to use in a lifetime on YouTube:).

    P.S keep in mind Sweetwater do interest free financial deals. I used that a lot over many years. It can be the difference between getting what you really want or losing money down the track. Only you can make that call!,

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
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  18. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    This is some great info on DSPs. I hadn't dived in that stuff yet..
    It's good to know that nobody is forced to use DSP while recording or mixing.. I got away with vst plugins in my DAW for years.. ;)
     
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  19. Jonathan Larkin

    Jonathan Larkin Active Member

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    Thanks for great input. O.k. , so it sounds like i got 1 d.s.p. with my Apollo - I am supposed to receive my order tomorrow - I have 2 weeks to exchange it if I do choose to . So the question is would i be better off with 2 d.s.p. `s for what i am trying to do instead of just one . If i do not rely on effects in record mode than I would not need more than 1 d.s.p. - that is my understanding. I am definitely planning on using effects during mixing - but that would all be solely contained within the computer with my limited experience . I pretty much just play acoustic instruments 1 track at a time but I think I may want to do some stereo recording and perhaps maybe add an occasional effect like some kind of reverb or echo once in awhile . I can`t see myself doing much more than that.
     
  20. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    All this can be done without dsp... Vst plugins sound very good today.
    I can't remember if we already had a debate on DSPs vs VSTs here on RO. That could be interesting.
    Having a chip do the job relieve your computer but I guess I should be educated on the + and - of DSPs.
    I know that for instruments, keyboards chip wouldn't hold much memory and the samples were limited in quantity and time.
    Virtual instruments were better for a long time because they could use longer and numerous sample per key..
    I'm wondering what goes with DSP chips, how the audio processing is done and if corners need to be cut short as well to get them to work..
     
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