Sebatron vmp4000e

[Bobby Loux]

Green Lawns,

I own an RNP/RNC and a Great River ME-1NV and let me tell you I am very happy. the RNP is so clean with that "air" sound everyone talks about on the high end. i record all my accoustic stereo guit tracks, keyboards, drum overheads, and backing vocals through that thing. when all those tracks are layed in the mix its really shows its strengths...

as far as my Great River is concerned, my lead vocal, snare drum and bass get the benefit of that neve color..i did some a/b comparisons with true tube pre's and the Great River gives you that same color vibe tubes do, but more upfront and in your face so too speak.

$900.00 for the GR and $475.00 ($1400.00) and you got two very distinct and seperate pre's to choose from...talk about bang for the buck!..I'm sure the sebatron is cool, but if you go for the 4000e that puts you with 4 of the same pre's for $1400ish....maybe look into the 2 channel 2000e for $900.00 and an RNP. that way maybe you can double up the two tube channels for that tube color, as I've heard the sebtrons pre's are very clean and transparent (similar to the RNPs)

I would go with the RNP first (especially if you're on a strict budget, you just cant beat the price and it sounds 3x its cost.. really!) its very versitle, you can have it deliverd in a week, and start recording...believe it or not as I stated above, that piece has become my workhorse!

good luck

 

[adamcal]

Ill just add, When I got my VMP4000e I hadent read any review on it at all, In fact it was Sebatron himself who emailed me to ask me if I was interested in trying his preamp.

I was and did, had it on loan for a week (we are locals) and I was happy to give him his asking price the next week. Its been in constant use ever since and I class it right up there with my Telefunken V72 and Neve preamps. May even get a second soon.

Adam Calaitzis
Toyland Studio
http://www.toyland.com.au

 

[GreenLawns]

What kind of differences am I likely to see between the RNP and the Sebatron? Does the Sebatron really have a vintage era sound that the RNP might be lacking?

 

[Kurt Foster]

The Sebatron is a "Class A", transformer based all tube pre amp. It has the "vintage sound". The RNP is a solid state L.S.I. device that uses chips and op amps.. I does not have a vintage sound.. The RNP is a great value at about $250 a channel but IMO it cannot not hold a candle to the sound of the pure "Class A", transformered Sebatron mic pre. It's like comparing a Vega and a Corvette.

 

[Kurt Foster]

Originally posted by J. Slator:

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
I have noticed that most of the detractors of the Sebatron pres are followers (groupies) of a certain person.

Are you referring to me?

No Jay, I wasn't referring to you.. except of course as one of the "groupies"...

 

[Ferd Berfel]

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
...The RNP is a solid state L.S.I. device that uses chips and op amps...

KF:

I'm just curious, what do you mean by this? Accepted use of the term "LSI" does not include the SSI levels typical of linear devices, particularly THESE DAYS. Besides, I believe the RNP is a Class-A, discrete front end (followed by SSI devices), running about 6mA of bias current through the long-tailed pair...

Of course, with regard to your subjective impressions of the sound, it's curious that you're one of the few that I've heard say that it /DOESN'T/ sound vintage (apparently, there's a few former RCA BA2B/BA11 users that swear the RNP sounds almost identical, except the RNP has an extended top end). To each their own, I guess!

Regards,
Ferd

 

[Kurt Foster]

Ferd,
I am not a tech type so I could be wrong. Forgive my being uninformed if this is so. What I was saying is that large scale integration (integrated circuits) is used in the RNP.. A discreet front end doesn't mean doo doo if it is followed by a garbage disposal.. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to use a RNP. I have requested several times for FMR to send me some products for comparisons and reviews but i don't get any response in spite of them making reference to the "buzz at RO" on their website. When someone doesn't want to send out a piece for review, i get curious as to why. All that being said, I regularly recommend the FMR gear on the strength of members comments. But the Sebatron is all discreet, hand built tube class A all the way piece. I have had the chance to compare it to other pres like the Millennia and Amek/Neves and I am very impressed with its sound.. Like I said Vega vs. Corvette.

 

[jslator]

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to use a RNP.

Have you even heard one? You make some pretty damning comments about a unit you havn't even tried. You'll note that nowhere have I ever said anything about the sound of a Sebatron. You know why? Because I haven't tried one. Talk about smear campaigns. Your credibility is waning.

 

[Kurt Foster]

Jay,
I have never said anything bad about the RNP or the RNC.. Simple as that. Go ahead and look, you won't find it. I always say I have never used one. But I will say I don't believe that a $500 stereo pre with integrated circuits can compare to any discreet pure Class A pre like the Sebatron. I feel safe with that. But for what it is, the FMR gear is a good value. I wish they would send me some pieces to run in the comparisons. You never actually say that you think the Sebatron sounds bad but on the other hand you never seem to be willing to give it the same benefit of the doubt that you would give to say, a new piece of Great River equipment. It is obvious who has the agenda here and who is credible and who isn’t. As far as my credibility, it is obvious that you are just lurking and chipping at Alan, Sebatron and myself, every time you get a chance. RO HAS HAD SEVERAL REQUESTS TO HAVE YOU BANNED FROM MEMBERS AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I AM ONE OF THE ONLY MODERATORS TO SPEAK IN YOUR DEFENSE. So why don’t you just lay off? It is well known that you are a *&%$#@%# groupie and you are here to promote a specific agenda (the MP2NV) ... Jay you never contribute one positive thing to any thread.

 

[Ferd Berfel]

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
Ferd,
I am not a tech type so I could be wrong. Forgive my being uninformed if this is so. What I was saying is that large scale integration (integrated circuits) is used in the RNP...

That's cool! I was just trying to understand what you meant. Strictly as an FYI, "LSI" is not the correct term in this context, "IC" is. "LSI" has potentially negative connotations for those who understand the terms...

A discreet front end doesn't mean doo doo if it is followed by a garbage disposal...

Maybe I'm not understanding you, let me re-phrase it as a double-check (I'm probably asking the following rhetorically):

* Using ICs is always/sometimes BAD, or, at least, "pedestrian" (i.e., Vega), /NO MATTER WHAT/, while...

* "hand built tube class A" is always/usually great (i.e., Corvette), /NO MATTER WHAT/?

The weakest link argument applies NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUIT TOPOLOGY, TECHNOLOGY IMPLEMENTATION CHOICES OR ASSEMBLY METHODS ARE.

Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to use a RNP. I have requested several times for FMR to send me some products for comparisons and reviews but i don't get any response in spite of them making reference to the "buzz at RO" on their website. When someone doesn't want to send out a piece for review, i get curious as to why.

So, the implication is...what? The product is defective, pedestrian or sub-par? The company is run by (at the very least) idiots or (at the worst) assholes who really don't want to sell their products so they want to make sure and piss-off potential reviewers/clients? Of course, it could be something as simple as a small company that's overridden with email spam (BTW, check out Avalon's new email policy) and/or excessive product demand to which they already can't meet that leads them to prioritize requests for "loaners" way down on the list? Based upon other's comments I've seen about Sebatron and Davissound (to name only two) being overwhelmed by customer interest--up-to-and-including not providing "demo units" AND even SOLD(!) product in a timely fashion--is not unusual. I'm certainly no going to judge their product's performance by their response time.

All that being said, I regularly recommend the FMR gear on the strength of members comments.

That's nice, I suppose, but my personal choice would be to recommend someone's gear based upon personal experience with it. But that's just me...

But the Sebatron is all discreet, hand built tube class A all the way piece. I have had the chance to compare it to other pres like the Millennia and Amek/Neves and I am very impressed with its sound.. Like I said Vega vs. Corvette.

I'm glad you like the Sebatron piece. At some point I hope to try it myself...

Regards,
Ferd

 

[Kurt Foster]

Ferd,
I am a bit of a gear snob, even though I may not be a tech type. I try my best to understand all of this but my main criteria for choosing gear is discreet, high power supply (joules man! joules), Class A. I think FMR makes great stuff for the market they are shooting for although I do wish they would send some stuff to me so I could say I am speaking from experience. I suspect that their stuff has been reviewed so much they don't feel the need to have it done again. But I just can't ignore that for the year that I have been “mod-ing” here, I have never heard a negative comment regarding FMR.. That speaks volumes unto itself..

 

[Bowisc]

FWIW, the RNP does have a vintage flavor to it, and the high-end, well, seems very, very extended. Possibly due to the 300k-bandwidth. Very "etheral" high-end. IMO, I would say it's more like "Viper -vs- 'Vette ZR6". Depends on which ride you prefer for your planned route.

My 4000e is close to completion, and within Sebatron's estimated time-frame. Should be here shortly. Although the man is busy... (he's sent me pics with many, many units stacked up for production), he's kept me in the loop on my unit since Day 1.

No suspicions here.


Bowisc

 

[Doc@BeefyTreats.com]

I can compare the RNP and the Universal Audio 2-610, as both are at my studio. The RNP doesn't colour the sound at all and has a very detailed high end. The Universal Audio seems to accentuate the low mids slightly, in a very pleasing way, while rounding off rough edges in the highs. The UA doesn't smack you in the face with it's colouration, thankfully, as "toob" gear might. Personally I like having a clean, detailed pre and a brawny tube pre (I try to avoid the word "warm").
The UA is a true tube preamp, like the Sebatron, so maybe this comparison will help.
Doc

 

[jslator]

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
You never actually say that you think the Sebatron sounds bad but on the other hand you never seem to be willing to give it the same benefit of the doubt that you would give to say, a new piece of Great River equipment.

I've never used or even heard a Sebatron, so how could I say it sounds bad? Or good? I have some issues with their marketing, so I'm maybe a bit more suspicious of Sebatron than I might be about other manufacturers.

RO HAS HAD SEVERAL REQUESTS TO HAVE YOU BANNED FROM MEMBERS AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I AM ONE OF THE ONLY MODERATORS TO SPEAK IN YOUR DEFENSE.

People keep threatening to have me banned. I don't think I've said anything that justifies banning me, but how about either banning me or shutting up about it? This constant "Watch what you say, or you're going to be banned!" is just annoying.

It is well known that you are a *&%$#@%# groupie and you are here to promote a specific agenda (the MP2NV)

OK, when you were talking about groupies, I thought you were referring to me. Now I'm lost. Who is it that I am the groupie of? I swear to God, I have no idea who you're referring to. And you've completely lost me on the MP2NV. I'm pretty sure I have never commented on the MP2NV on any forum anywhere either positively or negatively. Where do you get this stuff? Post some links.

... Jay you never contribute one positive thing to any thread.

Clearly that's your impression. I beg to differ.

 

[Kurt Foster]

Originally posted by J. Slator:
I've never used or even heard a Sebatron, so how could I say it sounds bad? Or good? I have some issues with their marketing, so I'm maybe a bit more suspicious of Sebatron than I might be about other manufacturers.

Because someone, who by the way lives on the East Coast USA, got overzealous and posted a bunch of positive comments, you somehow assume that Sebatron had something to do with it.. I don't know if they did or not. All I know is I ordered mine, and as soon as it cleared customs (which was a bitch) it got here. It sounds good. So I don't know what you are complaining about..

Even if Sebatron did what you think they did, what's the big deal? ... So they got on the Internet and SPAMED a few sites.. big deal. That doesn't mean they don't make a good product. And they and I certainly don't deserve this which hunt you have instigated. It just means they were financially challenged in terms of getting some advertising. As far as questionable marketing practices, I have never run into anyone who was really bad.. except Digidesign and Apple.. Other than them, everyone I know of pretty much delivers what they promise at a fair price.

As far as the Sebatrons go, order one. You'll like it. If you don't they will take it back. No problems. The thing made my U87Ai (modern version) sound better than anything I have ever heard it through ever!. I swear, it sounds like it looks through the vmp-4000!

I wasn’t threatening you with banning. I was telling you that you attack the wrong person when you go after me. I always think of banning as a last resort and to be honest, I don’t think you have done anything to deserve being banned. I don’t know what your problem with me is. I guess your just miffed because I get to review gear and you don’t or something, because I know I have never done anything to you. So you either come here with an agenda or your just jealous. One or the other. The thing is Jay, sometimes you do come through with some nice things.. like yesterday and I just noticed you said some helpful things in a couple of threads today.. so I admit I was wrong saying you don't add anything positive.. but really, everyone knows how you feel about Studio Projects and Sebatron, so why not just give it a rest?? You’ve made your point.

 

[GreenLawns]

Today I ordered the Sebatron through GTA music in Sydney (Wayne Gardner). I'm willing to take a chance on this one. The RNP seems promising and perhaps I will be able to pick one up later... but the Sebatron VMP2000e seems to be right on the mark for what I'm after. I think people have been unfairly harsh to Sebatron. I haven't seen one bad comment from a user, or anyone who's heard it for that matter.

 

[jslator]

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
...everyone knows how you feel about Studio Projects and Sebatron, so why not just give it a rest?? You’ve made your point.

Actually, my most recent post that you took offense to had nothing to do with Sebatron. It had to do with you passing a strong judgment on a product that you don't appear to have ever tried or even heard. You state some incorrect technical information about the RNP, compare it to a Chevy Vega and state that it doesn't have a "vintage sound" when you, in fact, have no basis upon which to form such a judgment. That's really bad form.

On a related note, what exactly is "vintage sound" anyway? Is that the sound of a Neve 1073? API 312? Langevin AM-16? Telefunken V72? V76? Maybe something from Western Electric? RCA? Altec? Helios? Trident? Do those all sound similarly "vintage"?

 

[Kurt Foster]

Jay,
As EveAnna Manley puts it, "Joules, man! Joules!" High current, discreet components. Class A design.. The RNP is a $250 per channel design, all chips and PCBs, that is fabricated in mass and assembled robotically. If you would rather have a cheap pre instead of a good one, be my guest. You say one thing, I have heard other people say other things.. What I do know is FMR doesn't return my inquiries.. not that they have anything to conceal. BTW, did you ever find any negative comments from me regarding the RNP? Nooooo...

Originally posted by J. Slaytor Actually, my most recent post that you took offense to had nothing to do with Sebatron. It had to do with you passing a strong judgment on a product that you don't appear to have ever tried or even heard. You state some incorrect technical information about the RNP, compare it to a Chevy Vega and state that it doesn't have a "vintage sound" when you, in fact, have no basis upon which to form such a judgment. That's really bad form.

The comment regarding "credibility waning" only shows what I am speaking of. You are trolling, lying in wait, waiting for me to make a comment you can pick apart and then extrapolate from that, since I am erroneous regarding one thing I may be erroneous regarding another. As has been mentioned more than once by other members on this thread, many have purchased the Sebatron and there have been no complaints so far. This is the same as with the RNP.. I don't understand why you feel the need to attack something you have never heard.. In my case, I give the RNP the benefit of the doubt. In your case, you discredit the product.

What I am saying is a mic pre that is designed to a price point, using off the shelf components selected as much for availability as well as any other criteria, using IC's and PCB's built by robotics, is a VEGA! It's a cheap pre Jay.. although I have heard that it is remarkably good, considering it's pedigree. But it is not ever going to compare with something that is hand built using discreet components (no chips or ICs) with massive power supplies that is built much for the art of doing it rather than to meet a projected "price point".

 

[jslator]

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
The RNP is a $250 per channel design, all chips and PCBs, that is fabricated in mass and assembled robotically. If you would rather have a cheap pre instead of a good one, be my guest.

I'm not even commenting on the pre's per se. I'm commenting on whether it's a good idea for a so-called "reviewer" to review products he has never tried and to tell people what they sound like or don't sound like when he's never even listened to them.

Anyway, this is quickly becoming tiring. I must be speaking in tongues, because you don't ever seem to understand what I'm saying. You appear blinded by your conviction that I've been sent here to persecute you as the agent of some unknown spectre (Dan Kennedy? Fletcher? I still havn't figured out the "groupie" comment or the reference to the MP-2NV).

I give up.

FWIW, I hope the Sebatron turns out to be a seriously good unit and I'm looking forward to hearing more user comments. If it performs half as well as you say it does, it will be well worth the price.

 

[Kurt Foster]

Originally posted by J. Slator:
I'm not even commenting on the pre's per se. I'm commenting on whether it's a good idea for a so-called "reviewer" to review products he has never tried and to tell people what they sound like or don't sound like when he's never even listened to them.

"So called" reviewer.. now we are getting to the point. What may I ask would in your eyes, qualify someone to be a "real" reviewer? It seems that you wonder what qualifies me to be a reviewer. Maybe that is what your problem is. You wonder why I get to have all this cool stuff sent to my house and you don't? Or perhaps you are another person who is bummed, because I don’t ever slam stuff. There is a group of readers who want that. They want dirt, for a product to be dragged through the mud. I won’t do that. I refuse to sink to that level. I have been very fortunate that all the products I have received so far to review have been excellent, so I have not had to tell a manufacturer that I couldn’t write a good review but if a real turd did come across my desk, I would not hesitate to do that.

There is a considerable list of equipment manufactures who seem to think I am a qualified reviewer. As well as the reviews I have already published, I have stuff on the way to me from Manley, JLM, Audix and Yamaha Corp., Studio Projects to name a few as well as additional pieces from Sebatron and Millennia Media. Every Mmanufacturer that I have reviewed has been very happy with my work, some saying that it is "nice to have a real pro doing the review" and how "it shows in the end product". They seem to think I am qualified. What makes you think I am not? Because I said something you don't agree with?

I never reviewed the RNP and just because I make a comment about a piece of gear in a Forum that I moderate does not qualify as a "review". So please don't misconstrue my comments on the BB as reviews of products. They are what they are and when I am on the BB I am here in the same capacity as any other contributor, member or moderator. I put my review hat on when I write a review for the reviews page and publish it in the RO E Mag. It is a completely separate function.