soil/sevendust guitar sound

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by mraction, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. mraction

    mraction Guest

    I know I'm dreamin but here goes -

    JOHHNY K or anyone involved with the making of SOILS REDEFINE or SCARS
    album in GROOVEMASTER STUDIOS Chicago, IL can you help us?

    Although we can get many great heavy guitar sounds (which we should be
    happy with) We are trying to get that particular guitar sound recorded
    and cannot figure it out.

    We have recorded the guitars, bass & drums for the intro on track #10
    of REDEFINE, trying to figure out whatever it is that we love about
    that guitar sound (Sevendust guitars have a similar sound), I believe
    it is the way the mids sound in the mix.

    Is it all in the mastering?
    Am I expecting too much from my equipment or can I get in the
    Is it that my mic pre sucks for this type of guitar sound?
    Are these the wrong mics for this sound?
    Is this the wrong technique for this sound?
    Is it a more expensive/pro AD/DA converter?
    Do I need to spend another million hours with eq/mic placement/amp
    Is this the wrong guitar/pu's/amp/cabinet?
    Help Me!

    Dont laugh to hard but below is the closest we have come.

    Here is what/how we recorded the rhythym tracks to create the mp3's
    below (which sound great in the mix but are still missing the sound
    that we love so much about those guitars):


    Guitar: LP CUSTOM 92 with invador at bridge, pu selector set to bridge
    with vol full & tone anywhere between 5-10, Ernie Ball Skinny
    Top/Heavy Bottom, Intonation is for drop C but tuned to REDEFINE


    Amp: Vetta HD (upgraded) with the following settings -
    amp1 model - Line6 Big Bottom
    drive - 1:00
    bass - 9:00
    mid - 12:00
    treble - 10-11
    presence - 10-11
    volume(not master) full
    gate - Threshold -20db Release 15ms
    cabinet model - Line6 4x12
    master volume - half way up
    output setup - 4x12, mono
    system setup - power = full
    and nothing else -
    amp2 on standby


    Physical Cabinet: line6 4x12 - door of iso booth was left open and
    exposing side of the cabinet, distance from wall of iso booth to face
    of cab apprx 21/2' leaving back of cab less than 6" from opposite wall
    of iso booth, cab was also resting on top of Auralex GRAMMA


    Home made iso-booth, 4x4x7, 3/8" plywood on outside, 2x4 frame, 3/8"
    drywall on inside, auralex 2" studio foam checkered on adjacent walls
    on drywall, one wall has bathroom type door covered completely with


    Mics: 58 & 421
    To seperate guitar takes because only 1 mic pre.

    421 on top left spkr apprx 1/2" away from grillcloth, centered on spkr
    verticaly, centered on the edge of inner cone horizontally (I dont
    know if this is correct terminology)

    58 on top right spkr apprx 1" away from grill, absolute center on spkr


    Mic Pre: joemeek VC1Q (Used only for pre, no comp, no eq, no
    I will be picking up the vintech 1272 soon to test but dont have it


    Compression: RNC 1773, max compression in normal mode (25:1), quickest
    attack/release and output set to 3:00(from the joemeek send, to rnc
    left/mono, with high quality trs even though rnc is unbalanced)


    joemeek VC1Q


    echo mia digital card


    Cubase SX latest version.

    mp3s with eq on them are using the following cubase track eq, no
    plugins, nothing else:

    senn 421 is -21 db @ 100hz, -9 db @ 800hz
    sm 57 is -12 db @ 100hz, -9 db @ 800hz

    Monitor/Playback: QSC 1450 pwr amp TO jbl 4208 monitrs (this is done
    in my friends bedroom so we burn alot of cds to check mix in car
    stereos and various other stereos/spkrs as well, but the recording is
    done in iso booth) (both mics) (both mics)

    If anyone knows anything about how to get this sound recorded than we
    will show our appreciation by paying you 1 Million Dollars and giving
    you 672 virgins in the after life, which is substantially more than
    the muslims promise (well not really but I will send you a finished
    copy of our demo!)
    Please no b.s. opinions about other guitar sounds being better, etc.
    This is not what we are after.
  2. falkon2

    falkon2 Well-Known Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Silly question, but do you have a short sample clip of the sound you're trying to achieve for A/B purposes?
  3. ytrehalf

    ytrehalf Guest

    I have no idea what signal chain those guys use, but I hear that a lot of producers are using the Vipre to get that sound.

    In any case, the sound you're getting from your 57 w/flat eq sounds like its close to the way the mids should sound. I listened to all of your clips and it sounds like you're a bit hamfisted with the eq. Every clip with flat eq sounded much better to my ears.

    If that 57 clip had a little sparkle on top from a good eq--550a or 1081--I think you could nail it.

    For the low end. Try an RE20 or AT25. The 421 clip doesn't sound right. It's too built up in the low mids. You want to clear that up a bit and get some lower extension.

    I've heard of people using a 414 on the back of the cabinet. I've never tried that myself but I will when I get a chance. I'm sure phase will be an issue, but I have a Little Labs IBP on the way :D

    You have to be really careful with outboard eq on distorted guitar--especially cheap eq. It only messes with the harmonics and rarely makes any improvement unless used negatively, or very sparingly when used additively.

    Try to get the sound as close as you can through the amp and then start moving the mic around. Tiny movements make a huge difference with distorted guitar.

    You can certainly get good guitar sounds with your gear, but to expect it to sound like a record where Neves, APIs, Pultecs, etc. have been used may be unreasonable. But you should still try to squeeze everything you can out of what you have to work with. That's what it's really about.

    I hope this helps.
  4. digdug

    digdug Guest

    I could give you some tips and model patches.
    But then I would have to kill you.

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