Stereo vs Mono Di ?? Stereo bleeding ?

Discussion in 'Accessories / Connections' started by pcrecord, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Hi gang,
    I'm looking to step up the quality of Di I own and since like always I don't want to spend too much. I'm thinking of buying a stereo DI instead of 2 mono.
    This could be the one I choose : Radial ProD2 Passive 2 Channel Direct Box
    My concern is, could there be bleeding between the channels if I put 2 completely different sources instead of a stereo source ?
    They advertise it as 2 ProDi in one, but before I buy, I thought to ask here...

    I would use it mainly to record direct sound from 2 guitars while recording the customer amps and be able to reamp if needed. So the signal needs to be clean and to avoid horrors while being reamped..

    Thanks !

    upload_2018-1-18_10-57-27.png
     
  2. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    I would not worry about inter-channel crosstalk with Radial dual boxes.

    That said, the ProD2 is not the best DI for guitars with piezo pickups, as the input impedance is only 140K Ohm. If you are only capturing guitars with built-in pre-amps or that run through a pedal, then no problem.

    I hope you meant that by using a DI box in addition to the mic channel you had a track that you could later put through a reamping box, not that you would use the ProD2 for this purpose!
     
  3. ronmac

    ronmac Active Member

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    The PRO48 is a better choice for electric guitar. Unfortunately, it does not come in a dual channel version.
     
  4. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    So you meen it would be good for acoustic guitars or bass with active pickups but not electric...

    I already have a reamp box ;)

    Not bad at 99$ CAD
    What do you think of the Pro48 @Boswell ?
     
  5. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

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    What kind of spec range would you be looking for in a DI if you wanted it do a better job with instruments with colder piezo type signals?
     
  6. paulears

    paulears Well-Known Member

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    The difference in DI quality is more personal than microphones. Feeding good quality line level audio into any DI and then Listening critically rarely reveals big differences that you can label like you can mics. My BSS DIs can be happily swapped with the cheap ones for practically everything, apart, as was mentioned above, guitars with very high impedance sources, like the 1M Ohm crystal types. My cheap DIs make these guitars sound a bit dull. On an MP3 track I hear no difference from an iPod. On other guitars I cannot hear any difference at all. The clever ones need phantom, but sonically if on general sources there is a difference, I cannot hear it. I have bought terrible ones, but they're either faulty, poorly designed or just rubbish components. My only faulty ones have been when dropped. I have two stereo/twin channel ones but there is a potential for crosstalk if you are using lots of gain and low level inputs as the board tracks are close. A very high input on one channel can very faintly be heard on the other output with gain cranked up. I prefer to use single channel ones.
     
  7. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Here is the story... When I get a band in studio, it's often young and poor musician who brings sh..ty amps. I always propose my VOX AV60 but most refuse in the name of their unique and amazing sound. Once the tracks are recorded, I either use a amp sim or reamp to my AV60 and show them the difference. 80% of the time they want my sound (I often combine it with theirs to keep them happy).
    So most of the time it's one guitar player but sometime two.
    I never know what will be the guitars and it's often cheap stuff like squiers or other copies.
    I personnaly have a Epiphone Les Paul custom on which I replaced the pickups for gibson originals.
    I rarely get bass amp in the studio, so they go direct to DI input of an ISA preamp which sound nice enough.
    I currently have 2 cheaps Di and while the sound isn't so bad I'd like to buy better ones to be safe on quality.
    I feel radial is a company I trust delivers good quality gear but I'm open to suggestion.

    The Pro48 suggested earlier seems nice. I could buy one now and one a bit later. BUT only if it's a good choice for cheap electric guitars.. ;)
     
  8. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Mon Ami ...
    Have you done any research on the recent boxes from Telefunken?
    I've seen them advertised recently, and have read one short review (SOS) where the specs were explained, but I don't think the boxes had shipped yet at the time of the article so it's not really a review as much as it is a description...
    https://www.soundonsound.com/news/telefunken-di-boxes-virtually-indestructible

    But I personally can't say either way, as I've not used them...I'm just offering you another thing to look at ( and possibly make your decision a harder one to make. LOL)
    https://telefunken-elektroakustik.com/direct-boxes

    FWIW :)
     
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  9. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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  10. bouldersound

    bouldersound Real guitars are for old people. Well-Known Member

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    It's always good to have a selection of different DIs. The expensive active DI that makes almost everything else work will fail on some sources where a simple passive DI will work great.
     
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  11. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    The Pro48 is a lovely box, but with an input impedance of 220K Ohm, does not suit all guitars (see next comment).

    I like to have 1 MOhm or greater for piezo pickups, but unfortunately this usually rules out passive DI boxes and many active ones. My preferred box when faced with a high-impedance pickup is the 2 MOhm DI input on the Audient Mico pre-amp. The downside for live work is that placing the Mico on stage to avoid long high-impedance guitar leads can make access difficult for adjustment. No problem in the studio, though.

    I had heard about these sometime last year, but didn't know that they are supposed to be available now. The spec of the FET-input versions is disappointing in offering an input impedance of only ">30K Ohm", i.e. the same as the passive versions. This may be a typo on the data sheet.

    I'm keen to try the Triton BigAmp. This has a 1M input impedance and fits in-line on the end of a standard XLR cable, similar to their FetHead pre-amp.
     
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  12. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Based on what Bos mentioned (@Boswell ) mentioned, about being disappointed in the impedance rating of their new DI boxes, I'm not so not sure that the company that bought Telefunken isn't perhaps relying on the original company's name and reputation, well - earned through their now classic and sought after mics and pres.
    They may own the name now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the quality of their products is the same quality they became known for in years past, when "Telefunken " was still Telefunken.
    I'm not saying this is the case - I could be dead wrong and the new owners might make incredible gear...but it's not entirely impossible that they might be relying on a name from the past to lead potential new customers into thinking that they are in fact one in the same.
    FWIW
    ;)
     
  13. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    So if I understand, no Di will do it all.
    This is what I have right now, and it's pretty lame. (see picture)
    Maybe I should start with a PRO48 active DI and wait for more $ to get another model to complete the setup..
    Or should I push the budget for a J48 (how better suited to my needs may it be ?)

    EDIT no picture : Yorkville YDI-1P
     
  14. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

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    Yes, that's how it seems to work out. I've got around 6 or 7 DI boxes, plus about the same number of DI inputs on pre-amps.

    For live work with walk-up musicians, I quickly gave up asking them whether they had active or passive pickups ("You what?"). Instead, I made a small box that put out a 10V 2Hz squarewave through a 10K resistor. You plug a guitar pickup into its output, and if you can hear clicking, it's a piezo, so reach for one of the hi-Z units. Otherwise, they go through my J48 or whatever else is to hand.
     
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  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    don't a lot of newer acoustic electrics have active electronics? would those need 1 mega ohm? i hear and see plenty of acoustics di'd on stage that sound pretty good. not sure how they do it but i'm sure there's more to it than the only solution is to put a pre amp on stage or in the L/R. personally i think all piezo pups suck. i always try to mic a good acoustic. perhaps the best solution would to be to invest in one of those acoustic guitar amp wedge thingies?
     
  16. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    That's would be certainly true, but in my situation, I don't get a lot of those. . . Mostly strait electric guitars with single or dual coil pickups.
    Also, I'm not doing live work with my gear anymore (Those who hires me rent all the gear for live venue)

    I too can use my preamp's DI, so I guess I'll start with the PRO48 and check for other models later..
    Thanks alot for your help guys ! When there is too many choices it's great to be here on RO ;)
     
  17. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

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    I have numerous Whirlwind IMP2 boxes, which are plenty good enough for most live sound applications, as are the basic Rapco DIs (a couple of which are stereo), and an active LR Baggs Para DI that’s especially great for live acoustic guitar - with its EQ and parametric notch filter built in.

    If it’s something more critical, I have a Radial JDI (which is excellent) and a Countryman Type 85 (also excellent).

    The Radial stuff is very good quality and very well made. The JDI has a top notch Jensen transformer and is extremely nice on bass and keys. I also believe the advertising claim that you can drive a truck over the Countryman without damage. They are very well built.

    No matter how it was captured, I’ve got a Radial RMP re-amping box, plus another reamp box I built from a kit.

    The fact is though, if it’s one of those “more critical” situations I usually end up using a bonafide preamp instead. For that I’ve got a few Avalon U5s, GT Brick, a couple PreSonus pieces, and several very interesting Sebatron pres I got from Chris a while ago.

    So if I thought I was going to combine any portion of their signal with the reamped signal, I’d still want it to be as good as I can get it and use the active pres.

    My .02
     
  18. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

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    i love the Sebatrons ....
     
  19. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

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    Me too, Kurt.

    Chris and I did a mutually beneficial gear swap several years ago, and I hope he's as happy about that as I am. :)

    I did a thrown together live outdoor gig a while back with the Thorax driving a QSC power amp into a couple Phil Jones cabinets and realized I may have crossed the line of all good sense and reason taking something that nice out on a gig. It was the Thorax's first and only time 'on the road', but it was one glorious trip.
     
  20. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    @dvdhawk @Kurt Foster @audiokid @Boswell

    I got the PDF for the Sebatron in my email today, Dave. :)
    A cursory glance left me very impressed. (70 DB of gain will certainly come in handy :) )
    I promise I'll dig in deeper with the PDF manual today. ;)

    So...are you thinking about also using two of these linked for summing?

    Kurt... You mentioned abovr that you love these pres... Is it anything in particular that stands out, like the mic pre quality, or the built in FET gain reduction? I'm just curious to hear what you think...
    Would you ever consider using two of them linked for 2 bus summing?

    I'd love to hear Chris's thoughts on this as well, considering he owned them first. :)

    If we did implement these as stereo summing/2 Bus compression, we would be looking at a 2 DAW setup, no? (Which is fine with me ) ... At that point we would probably want to pick Boswell's and Chris's brains, or go back into the RO archives and read their various posts on the subject, and do some research...
    Chris and Bos have the most hands on time and experience with 2 DAW systems...

    Or... are you considering inserting them somehow into the DAW master bus?

    Man, I'm really excited to hear and use these in action. :)
    -d.
     

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