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Studio Sound Treatment

Discussion in 'Acoustics (Live Room, ISO Booths)' started by Doublehelix, Sep 4, 2002.

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  1. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    DH,
    The comments re' soundproofing were in reply to Knightfly's comments. As far as th RTA, if it has a calibrated mic that was supplied with the unit (hee hee, he said "unit") then it will be of some use to you in checking out your room..........Cheerio and Harumph!, Fats
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    DH,
    I had just woke up when I replied to your last post and I hadn't had my coffee yet. I
    re- read your post and here's my 2 cents. Shoot the room with pink noise and then let the RTA do its thing. You will see where the peaks are (where the RTA applied cut and where the dips are, where the RTA's boosting). I would venture a guess and say if you can get the room response within + or - 6 to 8 dB your in the ball park. If not, you need to experiment with moving the speakers and other elements in the room or adding and subtracting treatments until you get where you want to be.....Fats :tu:
     
  3. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Here it is Thursday afternoon...and still no UPS truck from Markertek...Grrrrr...Where's my foam??? Hehe...anxious little snit, aren't I?
     
  4. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Ya mean foaming at the mouth ain't enough? :=)
     
  5. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Well...my big packages of foam arrived late yesterday afternoon. My wife's first comment was, "You paid *how much* for a bunch of packing material????" <grin> Women! Hehe...

    Hopefully tonight I'll get a chance to work on it...
     
  6. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    DH
    It is probably agood idea to unpack the foam and let it relax at room temp for a day or so before you attempt to glue it up. Fats
     
  7. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey James, glad the foam isn't only at the mouth - What Fats mentioned about taking the foam out of the packages reminded me - some of these foams have been known to outgas for a few days, and there may be formaldehyde involved. If you notice a smell that you don't like, it might be a good idea to separate the foam in a protected but airy place, like a garage, and let a fan or two blow through it for a couple of days. The fumes from some of this stuff can make you sick if you don't air it out first.

    Fats, glad you mentioned taking the stuff out of the box, I had forgotten about some of these things... Steve
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Ahh, there is nothing like the smell of formaldehyde in the morning. DH, can I come over to play…I love a good formaldehyde buzzzzzzzzzzzz. :D
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Steve,
    Good point! A lot of times MarkerTek ships foam wrapped up in a cylinder held together with shrink wrap. If you try to hang it without letting it "relax", it will curl up and come off the wall. Letting the product air out is a real good idea too, unless your like me and suffer from brain damage from all the years of abuse (a child of the '60's). I heard FOX wants to do a "That 60's show" but they can't find anyone who remembers what it was like
    ....... :D ......Fats
     
  10. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Well, as it turns out, I have been unable to install any of the foam anyway...this has been the weekend from hell, so the foam has had a great chance to air out! I actually spread it all out on Friday night before a quick session that I had planned, and looked at how I was going to lay it all out...so it should be good and aired out before I get to it again...

    Unfortunately, the baseball playoffs are going on again tonight, so ain't nothing gonna happen again tonight! :) I should get this batch up sometime this week though...

    I can tell already that I need to order more foam, I only ordered 4 bass traps, I hav no idea what I was thinking!!! My ceilings are 7'7" high, and it will take 3+ bass traps for each corner...I must have been having a 60's flashback when I ordered those... Plus, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't order anything for the back wall yet (behind me in the sitting position), so I need to get at least 6 more bass traps for the back corners, plus the diffusion stuff for the back wall and ceiling.

    The 2" stuff from Markertek is more like the Auralex "Wedgies" product, rather than the standard 2" Auralex blade tiles. They have smaller and more numerous blades on them than the standard tiles. Here is a quote from the Auralex web page ( http://www.auralex.com ):

    "Wedgies are 1' squares of 2" thick Studiofoam and are a great solution for spot treating sound studios, home listening rooms, iso booths and more. With slightly more wedges per square foot than 2" acoustic Studiofoam, Wedgies feature maximized surface area for greater exposure to sound waves. Wedgies are a great solution for small flutter echo problem areas and, when spread apart, yield beneficial sound diffusion off their exposed edges."

    I am sure they work just fine, they just don't match the 2 big 2' x 4' Auralex panels that I bought a couple of weeks ago.
     
  11. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    DH,
    You shouldn't need any more foam. The bass traps I described don't reach all the way to the floor. You only need to treat the upper 2/3 ds of the wall. What kiind of adhesive are you sticking it up with? Fats
     
  12. jimistone

    jimistone Guest

    man, this is a good thread. Im going to refer back to it when i start treating my room. mine is 26 ft X 19ft with 10 ft cielings. i have a 8ft X 10ft vacal booth in one end 1/2 foot from the front wall
     
  13. tubedude

    tubedude Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    All this talk of foam... I want diffusion, and it seems I cant find any except for auralex, and its pricey. The metrofuser seems priced ok, is it any good? ANy help appreciated!
     
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Bill Roberts said:
     
  15. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Well that is great news about the bass traps! :)

    I have a can of the Auralex spray adhesive, but I need at least one more I think. I have heard that if you want to have the foam be "somewhat" removeable, you should spray only on the foam, if you want it to me more permanent, you should spray the adhesive on *both* the foam and the wall. Any comments?
     
  16. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Well...I finally mounted my foam tonight! :D Lots of work, but it is hopefully worth it! I still need to buy a few more pieces of foam, and the diffusion squares, but at least 90% of the foam is done! I put the 4" thick Markertek foam at the wall ceiling/junctions as you suggested, but I cut it them in half, so the 16" square sections are now 8" x 16". This saved me some of the 4" thick sections to go around, and it looks pretty cool that way! I then have a row of 2" thick Marketek "wedgies" under that, and then the original Auralex 2' x 4' panels that I bought underneath that. Finally, I put the bass traps in the corners. I still need 3 more bass traps, and 2 more of the Auralex tiles to complete the foam treament for the front wall(behind the monitors) and ceiling. I still need to finish the back wall with bass traps, then the diffusion.

    So now for the burning question...did all this time/money/energy do any good??? Great question! We will have to wait until tomorrow to find out! I am way too tired to test it! Travelled all day, got back in town, ate dinner, and started cutting foam...I'm sure my ears aren't up to the challenge at this point, so we will have to wait until tomorrow morning to find out! Besides, the foam tack really stinks, and the whole basement smells of glue!

    Ahhhhh...the suspense!

    Fats and Knightfly...you guys are really awesome! This is a project I have been wanting to tackle for such a long time, and I never could have done it without your help and advice (and encouragement!). I am almost home now!

    Cheers! :w:
     
  17. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Here are some results from the sound treatments that I have done in my studio based on all the info in this thread.

    First off, subjectively, the room sounds just *fantastic*!!! :) until you get to a *big* peak at 8K:

    8K.......+7.5.......+7.0

    then things level out again pretty well all the way to 20K...

    ------------------------------------

    Since the EQ is boosting the low frequencies to get the room ot be "flat" (some of them quite dramatically!), does this mean that my foam treatments have squashed all the bass out of my room???

    Also, look at the big difference between my L + R channels. What the??? My studio is set up much closer to the Right wall than to the Left wall, and the bass traps are quite close to the speakers (2 - 3 feet). Look at the difference between L & R at 31.5 Hz for example! Wild! You would *think* that since the right speakers are closer to a wall, and closer to a corner with a bass trap, you would get more low frequency absorbance, but maybe with the close proximity to the wall, this effect is negated.

    Remember that I still have no treatments whatsoever on the back wall (behind me while sitting)...should I think about adding the bass traps there, or is the bass already too squashed???

    How can I interpret this data, and how can I use it to my advantage??? I tried comparing this data to the data that I got from Steve's RoomTune program, but I am really not sure how to interpret the RoomTune data...other than it is useful in pointing out problem frequencies.

    Any suggestions here, or is this kind of stuff normal?

    Thanks! :w:
     
  18. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    DH,
    I Think you're in the ballpark! The room should be set up as symmetrically as possible. This is very important! If you can't do it facing one way move the set up until you can get it as symmetric as you can get it. You gotta do this. Once you add some diffusion on the ceiling and the rear wall, some low end will return. Also try taking your settings from a couple of different positions, see what's going on in the corners. You will notice just where you stand in the room while you take measurements can effect readings. I would rather see that the treatments are sucking the lows out rather than there still being a lot of low peaks. It's much better the way it is. kickin' some audio butt! :tu: Fats
     
  19. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    "All this talk of foam... I want diffusion, and it seems I cant find any except for auralex, and its pricey. The metrofuser seems priced ok, is it any good? ANy help appreciated! " -

    Tubedude, I know what you mean. I doubt if a space shuttle costs as much per pound as some of these "ninth root quadratic hemi-head polysyllabic ectrabob arrays" people dream up -

    If you're a heavy reader, one alternative I've heard of is book shelves at the rear, with randomly sized books, all pushed to the back (my thought, seems like it would cause the uneven front depths seen in some of the diffusors)

    Another, MUCH cheaper way are DIY poly-cylindrical "absorbers", which also, by their convex nature give good diffusion - there is some good info on those at these two sites -

    http://www.discmakers.com/pse/index.html

    that link has several good articles on other studio stuff, a basic idea of poly's in the Acoustics Part II article.

    As an aside, here is an actual test report on Egg Cartons, and their acoustic properties -

    http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF

    When I went looking for info on poly's, I came up nearly empty - however, I did find some good DIY info on acoustics - follow this one for some good general DIY tips. Unless your time is worth $200 per hour, it'll probably be worth it...

    Creamware

    For diffusion, convex is good, concave SUCKS. I've even been considering a rear wall (control room) out of those "cottage stones" like Home Depot sells - the ones that are curved in front. It would give (literally) a ton of mass, + a really diffusive surface. Only thing is, it would require a really good support - we're talking about a weight per foot of 8' height wall, of about 700-800 pounds. A 12 foot wall 8 feet high would weigh about 4-1/2 TONS... Still, really cool effect if you're into Gothic/Medieval stuff.

    OK, 'nuff rambling here, hope some of these brain-farts helped somebody somewhere... Steve
     
  20. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Knightfly,
    Here are some sites for diffusors....Fats
    http://www.rpginc.com
    http://www.acousticinnovations.com
    http://www.silentsource.com/index.html
    __________________________________________________________________________

    "The extension of the frequency range beyond audibility is beneficial to sound quality and produces brain electrical activity from the area associated with pleasure. The absence of frequencies above 20 kHz result in subliminal frustration and restlessness."
     
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    The New AT5047 Premier Studio Microphone Purity Transformed

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