Summing - What track sounds better to you?

Discussion in 'Summing / Mastering consoles' started by audiokid, Mar 8, 2012.

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Summing - Which Track Do You Prefer?

Poll closed Apr 7, 2012.
  1. Sum 1

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. Sum 2

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  3. They both sound the same

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    After downloading those final Sums...there's no doubt that the analog summing adds space, air, separation, warmth and any other nuance term you want to put in there.
    Sum3 is the difference and if those final 3 sums were up for comparison, I would be picking Sum3 every time as my preference.
    The other 2 were fine and great and all but flat and duller in comparison.

    Converters are getting better with every new chip and I believe will continue to improve.
    Just my opinion in terms of how electronics continues to change everyday, but audio bandwidth has it's limits but we may find dynamic range and S/N do not...so far that is what has truly improved audio from the past. And that is the real gist between software and electronics. Electronics is real, software is a mimic of the real....:cool:
    Lavry is right across the pond from me here and I would love to have some of his stuff.
    I know my RME FF800 isn't stellar and neither is my friends ZEDR16, but for the price and hobby budgets it suits my needs.....for the time being.
    The cost of high end audio equipment like what you are using for recording still demands a commercial endeavor to provide a level of professional product that will still be outside the realm of the bedroom musician...
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Just what I needed to hear!

    How did Sum 1 and Sum 2 compare?
     
  3. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    Well Sum-1-W-2.wav was inverted from Sum2 and Sum3 and out of alignment with 2/3.
    So while they didn't null (none of them really did) those two were the closest to each other. I just flipped the polarity on Sum1.
    But...I didn't like either compared to 3 (special)..so maybe some bias and listening fatigue going on.
    So I don't know what else that can tell you for the test?

    On a sidenote for this....when I made a mix of this song the spacey synth was set much lower and to the background from the piano which I did to eliminate some of the ringing and build up between the two tracks.
    After listening to the sums of this I would still shift the pan slightly on the synth to balance overall and lower the level of the synth like that again...
    But of course that is another story for another time...:cool:
     
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    If you like, I do that for you? I dropped it about 10 db already, wasn't sure how much more to go.
     
  5. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing if your not sick of it by now!...LOL....
    Maybe I can explain what I hear...it's really just a blending thing and a bit of balance.

    So...The piano is fine where it is, stays prominent and has it's own ring, verb tails etc...when it's centered it tend to pulls everything a little to the right...so if you bring the "universe" synth down to a certain point so that it sounds more off in the distance it ducks behind the piano and then moving the pan of the synth slightly left of center pulls the whole thing back to center. There's this weird point where those two changes makes it have a depth and the in and out timing, pan and verb tails all blend and drift together rather than one being more noticeable.
    Keeping the synth down and back also lowers the occasional modulation ringing and buildup.
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Man, we are having our own party, and is this not the best in a long time.

    For fun, I added another Sum with tube gear. I'm going to do it again when my second UA LA-2A arrives ( should be any day now). This kind of track would be perfect for that. So expect something interesting.

    (Expired Link Removed)
    (Expired Link Removed)
     
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I should note that these were bounced to 16/44 for CD.

    PS,

    the bit of garble at the end that sounds like a gate, is that part of the track?
     
  8. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    This is too kind of you...Yeah I've heard that warble at the end....and I think your equipment has made that more noticeable. In my mix I did fade both stereo tracks out at the end to get rid of it.
    That was what I was calling the "verb tail modulation".
    Are you using the 2 synth mono tracks with the stereo piano track or the 4 mono tracks?
    I could send you the original stereo synth track!?
     
  9. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Not a problem.

    I'm using the stereo track. The mono ones had that grain to them and didn't line up. Could be the other two mono's should have been saved as a stereo track as well but we didn't hear anything there and they NULLED way back in this thread right?

    The tube needed to warm up more, it sounds a bit more active but I could be getting ear fatigue. never the less, here is the forth.

    (Expired Link Removed)


    Sure, send me a new stereo file is you want, I do it again when the LA-2A comes.
     
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Wow, the Bricasti would be a really nice touch on this track. Especially in the analog domain. The tails would soarrrrrrrr............
     
  11. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    Just as a reference here's the song the way I had it mixed originally on Soundcloud....

    Doon's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

    I think I may have over emphasized the level of the synth part and how low it actually was.
    Now it seems gone all together. I guess it was only "slightly lower".
    LOL...you know this is probably why it's hard to mix or master remotely...!!!

    Also in both those two runs there is some sort of faint grunting like artifacts that I hear almost like compression pumping....So I don't know if that is in the original file or is coming from somewhere else.
    If you listen to the Soundcloud version it's not there and the whole thing has a smooth soft sound to it!
     
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Ya, I know what you mean. Why that LA2A is going to be amazing here I think.
     
  13. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Notice the Soundcloud wave, its compressed a lot compared to these. I used your MP3 as a reference when setting the universe patch but I like it more now, more subtle.
     
  14. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Time for a commercial break... For those following this hehe, What a crowd!

    I don't believe anyone has done this online before soooooooooo! another first for audiokid ( and the crowd goes wild!). I'm going to experiment with what two LA2A's do to choirs, inserted into the MixDream. Stay tuned!

    Now, back to our regular program...
     
  15. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    I'm feeling pretty honored that my wav's are passing through your stellar gear.
    Briscati, LA2A's SPL Dangerous....All I can say is Wow and thanks
    I'm feeling kinda guilty getting all this attention!...but it's a lot of fun.
    I'll send you the stereo track of the synth!
    Also would you like to try the OMF thing, I've only done that once but it would be pretty interesting as a cross platform experiment...
     
  16. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I researched OMF import for Sequoia and its only available as a third party add-in. Its been something many have asked about adding for years, but because Sequoia is so massive, there are some plus and negatives that they leave up to each user to deside on. So at this point I'm not going to concider it until I at least upgrade to Sequoia 12 next month, then question people who see it as stable.
     
  17. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    correction, not using a Bricasti, I wish we I had one. It would make this track killer. Its on my list but not for a while.
     
  18. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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  19. djmukilteo

    djmukilteo Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought...
    Open Media Framework.
    It's sort of a hyper meta-file that takes all the track information and data within an audio project and creates a single point exchange file. Sort of like HTML web format does where there are coded instructions and tagging info on how to place content data in there appropriate places.
    So basically an OMF file contains all the information needed to re-create your project on some other system if the other system has the OMF extraction code needed to put everything back in place.
    I've only tried it once and the file can be large and take some time to export and of course with anything like that I think there can be problems with stuff that doesn't translate correctly.
     
  20. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I'm probably not giving you enough time to answer, You are in Cubase, do you export your sessions in OMF? Now you can explain more :)
     
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