Swapping Avantone Mixcubes for Yamaha NS10's

Discussion in 'Monitoring' started by ChrisH, Jun 14, 2014.

  1. ChrisH

    ChrisH Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Iowa
    Thank you, Donny.
    Do you have the orginal ns10's or the ns10m's?
    I'm definitely the rookie here but I found if you sit far into "the triangle", having the tweaters shoot past your head a good amount, you get out of the beam.
    Honestly, you'd probably hate my Adams then, to me they are much more aggressive in the top, damn ribbon tweeters make me too conservative with highs.

    Crown CE1000. Kurt warned me about the fan noise, not too big of a deal but it does distract once in a while.
    Oh, and I figured out a way to not so conveniently switch analog outs with Apogee's Maestro, although when you use anything besides output 1-2 you have no level control besides your daw stereo bus. You'd think apogee would cash in on making a "monitor controller" that controls maestro.
     
  2. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    "You'd think Apogee would cash in on making a "monitor controller" that controls maestro."

    Yeah or a Firmware update. For something targeted at the pro market, that's rediculous

    I installed some of those at a bar once, the ce series, and I thought they were broken, and didn't realize the fan only turns on when it reaches a certain internal temp.
     
  3. ChrisH

    ChrisH Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Iowa
    I talked to them today and suggested that, they're like "Wow, thats a great idea", haha. The fan is annoying cause I monitor at super low levels 85% of the time.



    I'm sure this is a huge debate but... to place the NS10's VERTICALLY or HORIZONTALLY?? o_O
     
    kmetal likes this.
  4. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    I always placed them horizontally with the tweets facing out. Although with my Monitor One's, I place them vertically - I think the imaging sounds better that way - at least in my room.
     
  5. ChrisH

    ChrisH Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Iowa
    I A/B'd the monitors in mono, both in the center of my room, same distance to make it as accurate as possible.
    I switched from left to right back and forth.

    Two things I discovered:
    1. One tweeter is louder/harsher than the other, why would that be?

    2. When they're placed Vertically they sound fuller, hence better.
    When they're placed horizontally some frequencies arrive later than others.
    Am I crazy??
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    I fear for you. Doesn't sound good.
    if you switch them LR >RL do they still sound different? Or, could it be the amp or a cable is faulty?

    Never the less, they could still be good reference even if they are slightly off. But, I bet you are going to be irritated as I would too.

    I hope you get it sorted and it is a simple fix.
     
  7. ChrisH

    ChrisH Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Iowa
    Yeah I did some trouble shooting it and it all comes down to the tweeter itself.
    One of the previous owners must have replaced one of the tweeters with a more efficient/different spec tweeter, i guess?
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    go to the link i posted and buy two new tweeters.
     
    kmetal and bigtree like this.
  9. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    Good thing it's the tweeters, the speakers are made of some special tree that apparently they don't use anymore so the originals are expensive. I think they used trees that were on the property of the factory or something, at least that's the story i heard.

    We have them horizontally on the desk, haven't tried vertical, but I use them more for sanity checks than as mains. So if I used them as mains, I think I'd be more concerned about how they sounded better. Your probably hearing phase cancellation and lack there of in the different orientations, that's why coaxial speakers are very phase accurate, cuz the frequencies arrive at the same time (within reason).

    You might be able to replace the fans w/ lower rpm fans, or just unplugg them, and take the top off the amp, depending on how much you care about the amps well being, or maybe there is a way to put like a potentiometer Inline of the wire providing power to the little fans, just brainstorming, electronics mods aren't really my area.

    What about a small ISO box for the fan.? Or maybe running longer speaker wires and having it off to the side? One of the studios I'm at has a fairly noisy dehumidifier and in wall ac, and honestly I just kinda tune it out, and I listing pretty softly most of the time as well.

    There's an old hafler we use for drum phones, and it's quite quiet. I'd have to check if it even uses fans, it's pretty heavy and has this sharfin style things in the back, which I'm pretty sure is part of the heat sinks.
     
  10. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    sure, that's it .... no paper ...... except for those new kick drum mics they make .... lots of paper for those ... :rolleyes:
    you really need to stop with the audio myths .....:LOL: there's plenty of paper to go around and lots of spare parts for NS10's. the reason they stopped making them was no one was buying any of their new stuff.

    just do a search for NS 10 replacement parts ....
     
  11. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    although you'd think that it was made from the paper of the last living Joshua Tree or something considering the cost of those parts. I bought my pair in 1989 and I think I paid $250 for the pair, new. These days, I've seen them going on Ebay for close to $900 ... LOL
     
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    $250 1989 dollar = $900. inflation.
     
  13. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    Are there myths that I have posted recently, or ever? I've definitely posted incorrect stuff, and been glad to be corrected. If your referring to a couple of my recent posts, regarding George Martin, and Skynard, they aren't myths. Sir George said what I said he did (not verbatim) in print, which I believe was from his interview in Howard Massey's, " behind the glass" ed 1. As far as Skynard's first album goes, that came directly from Phil Greene, a platinum and gold selling mix engineer that I work with. Don't believe me, google "Phil Greene engineer" you'll see his credits. One album he mixed was voted in the top 500 albums of all time in rolling stone, peter wolfs "sleepless" from the early 2000's, which has a song featuring Keith Richards on vocals. This isn't a guy who got lucky, once, and he has no reason to lie. So I think he has the cred enough, that if an engineer at the same studio at the same time told him that about skynard, it's more than likely true. They probably wouldn't/couldn't admit it, and there is probably some sort on no disclosure clause in the contract. Phil has a memory for technical/musical things unlike anyone I've ever met, remy being the closest. Wanna know what mods they did to the original ssl s before they got "good" and famous, he'll tell you the model number of the if chips. Brand of TP Bob Clearmountain used at the power station on his yammys for Byran Adams early hit album? He'll tell ya, even if bob doesn't remember, he was there for one of the mixes, and got it right from mr Clearmountain himself. So while I don't take everything he does as gospel, and he is quite eccentric to put it mildly, when it comes to technical details, and musical knowledge, he's usually right.

    Oh right the speaker cones obviously I wasn't saying they ran out of paper. Maybe this press release for Yamaha is enough to validate this as true.

    I'm sure I could get you the whole thing, but that's what I got in my email.

    Stories and myths and legends are fun conversation one in a while man, as long as they aren't presented as fact, which mine Initally wasn't. It's not like I told someone to 'soundproof' their room w studio foam so they can record all night. We both know their is no such thing as "soundproof" and foam does nothing for isolation.

    I obviously don't know everything nor am I amazing at what I do, but I do try my best to offer intelligent points of view, and say things that are true, or regarded as true by the general consensus. And if I'm unsure, or it's not my area, I say that too, I'd rather be wrong and corrected, than continue spewing incorrect things.

    I respect you Kurt, your sense of humor, and your knowledge. But please, before you tell me what or what not to say, or worse (all but) call me a lair, or storyteller, or crazy, make sure I am, so I can agree w you, and laugh at my own stupidity.

    -Kyle
     
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Location:
    77 Sunset Lane.
    remember this?
    that was what i was referring to Kyle
    and what i said was in good humor. don't take it so personally. i put a big smiley face at the end of the sentence. we all love you here. you're like a little brother. and i believe you heard that from Phil Green and it may be true. a lot of acts use studio players.on the other hand there's a lot of signature guitar playing on that record that i hear on subsequent releases the band made so i do have a hard time with it. perhaps some of the tracks were ARS?

    BUT! ... i never believed Yamaha's explanation on why they discontinued the NS10's i know what they said but at the same time they were releasing the HM series speakers. it's a general consensus they stopped making NS10's so they could introduce a new line. no one would buy anything else they made. again, i site there's lots of spares availabel at extreemly inflated prices ... it's been almost ten years ??? what's with that?
     
  15. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    Nice one, Kurt! ditto
    :love:
     
  16. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    "we all love you here, you're like a little brother."

    Ditto. :)

    As far as the Skynyrd thing goes, and their early work having ARS as session players, logistically, it's entirely possible. The first Skynrd album (Pronounced) was recorded at StudioOne in Doraville, Georgia, where the original ARS was the house/session band. It's also possible that they didn't play on everything - perhaps they used ARS's drummer on a track, or their bass player on another. But as far as ARS handling all the tracks, I'm not entirely convinced.

    I say this based on what I hear differentially between those two bands. I was - and still am - a big ARS fan. They had great songs, and the playing was all ultra groove.
    If you listen to songs like So Into You, Imaginary Lover, Not Gonna Let It Bother Me Tonight, you'll hear how "smooth" the playing on those tracks is, whereas Skynyrd's style was edgier, more raucous, more that of a live band. And, there's a sort of signature sound to the playing on their early stuff that continued on through their last album, Street Survivors, which was released a few weeks after the tragic loss of many of the members in the plane crash.

    So, I'm not saying definitively that ARS didn't play on those albums. The mark of a great session cat is the ability to play anything that you want them to play, so maybe the guys in ARS did play on the album(s).

    Although personally, I'm not hearing it. :)


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIc8krqspIc
     
  17. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Home Page:
    Thanks fellas! I Didn't mean to get all hot and bothered Kurt. And I do find it a little fishy about the timing now that you pointed out. And honestly I was kinda questioning their statement becuase of the sonically acceptable part, being the reason, just becuase they aren't really known for being clinically accurate, or particularly good, I mean if it was an augspurger, I could kinda understand. Bbt the yammys aren't active, so the amp is gonna play a role too. Maybe that was the easiest thing to blame it on so the purists could rest assured, and they could look like they were staying true, while introducing a new product?

    As far as ARS, if it was them on it, I'd kinda guess towards what d was saying that it was probably on the drums or bass, maybe some rythms, but Phil also said that skynard was basically kids at the time, and they toured quite a bit and tightened up and did end up playing a lot or all of the records after. I think any of the signature guitar stuff was probably them, just cuz they sounded like themselves guitar lick wise, after that too, like ya said Kurt. So if anything, it would make sense that some whiskey drinking kid drummer might not make the final cut, here and there, first time around, but probably the only people to say for absolute sure, were the people who were there during the actual process. I guess the only thing that is likely true beyond reasonable doubt is that someone around the studio said that to Phil, as to the extent of it, or if that person was lying, well I guess that's just part of the legend. And from some of the stories I've heard from the guys of the era, it's amazing that they can say and remember their own name, so ya know, I'm sure some things can get skewed, or taken out of context, or blown out of proportion. Lol, one time Phil tried to swap out a mic when lemy from Motörhead was singing takes for something and lemy said something like, "get back in the room and hit record or I'll shove this microphone down your throat and pull it out your... I stories from different eras! They always make my experiences seem so mundane in comparison. It's like recording started off so suit and tie and formal, and went completely in the other direction, and now it's kinda full circle again, or somewhere I. The middle leaning towards square. But if it could prevent things like amy whinehouse from going out the way she did, maybe it's a good thing that things seem more tame. But man, it'd be incredible to go back and experience that stuff for a week. That's why I always try and remember and pass on peoples stories, can you imagine if there was Facebook in the 70s and 80s? Status : up on xyz been mixing for 3 days, no sleep.

    i happen to be watching the muscle shoals documentary, the other day and it stated that the cuts from street survivors was actually recorded well before that. I forget the engineers name, but I guess they worked for 2 years or so, and recorded freebird, and a bunch of their hits initially, along w the songs that made up the album street survivors. And they wanted freebird as a single, and the record company wanted them to cut it to 3min or so, and the band and engineer/producer wouldn't budge, so they scratched the recordings from that project, until the tragedy. And apparently just re recorded the inital hits w whoever did the ones that made the final cut. Lol the stones engineer who did the muscle shoals session also said they didn't drink or do drugs during the recording, and then it immediately cuts to a shot of jagger singing into a bottle of JB, and then them saying they did, so maybe he knew his mother was gonna see it? Or maybe he was just kidding. The swampers, and fame studios got a lot of cred in the documentary, it's on netflix, and probably anywhere on the internet. ItS amazing what happens when great groups play together, and how the producers have the intuition to know "that's a hit" and believe it, and it happens. Anyway 'Nuff rambling for tonight. I def got off topic a bit.
     
  18. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Akron/Cleveland, OH
    Home Page:
    You're correct that the tracks for Street Survivors were recorded quite sometime before the crash, and some of the tracks were actually recorded twice - once with Tom Dowd at Ctiteria in Florida, and again at StudioOne in Doraville, Georgia. However....

    Freebird wasn't on Street Survivors. It was on their first album release, "Pronounced Leh-nerd Skin-nerd" in 1973. It was the song that pretty much jettisoned them into the limelight and started the ball rolling on their career.

    Street Survivors, which was released in 1977 - about a week before the crash - included songs like Ooh That Smell, What's Your Name, and You Got That Right.

    The album cover sparked some controversy, as it showed the band on the cover, with some members surrounded by flames. Even though this was just coincidence, because the album was released before the tragedy, many thought it was in bad taste to continue to manufacture and sell the LP with that particular picture, because of the plane crash. As a result, and out of respect for the surviving members, MCA Records withdrew the original cover and replaced it with a similar image of the band against a simple black background, which was on the back cover of the original sleeve.


    FWIW
     
    kmetal likes this.
  19. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Home Page:
    Great quote that.
     
  20. ChrisH

    ChrisH Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Iowa
    Chris, did you experience any audio coloring with the SPL 2381 ?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice