Tannoy Reveal, Rokit KRK G4, Yamaha HS or Yamaha MSP?

[amadeustm]

Hello all,

I opened a new thread, because the question in maybe too specific. Did not see people comparing monitors in my scenario. Sorry if it is a dupe.

In the past I asked suggestions on equipment and topics sequence for correct learning music production. It was very helpful (Thank you very much @pcrecord !!!!). Now I moved from Brazil to Frankfurt/Germany and I am preparing myself to buy a set of speakers. I use to work with Yamaha HS5, in Brazil the price was ok at the time. Now here in Germany I have access to a broader set of brands and the prices are ok to higher quality equipments. I found the following:

€ 150 - Tannoy Reveal 802
€ 150 - KRK Rokit RP5 G4
€ 235 - KRK Rokit RP8 G4
€ 259 - Yamaha HS8
€ 271 - Yamaha MSP5
€ 435 - Neumann KH 80 DSP
€ 577 - Neumann KH 120 A
> € 700 - Yamaha MSP7 (to buy this I would have to find a Yamaha dealer, pretty hard to find)

The application will be basic in-line recording, mixing, music production with VST. My room is not treated and will not so soon be (means +5 years to have space and treatment in a small room like 16m² or less). I have beginner ears and experience. But I will not buy speakers much more than maybe once every 10 years. This is not an investment that will be frequently be upgraded (like a mobile phone or something more disposable). I am looking for a good cost benefit and long lasting quality device. My target expense is running around € 500 for a pair.

I personally like Yamaha sounding because I am used with the brand even with non professional speakers in my home theater set (NS-P40, NS-B210, etc). But I as well miss some basses. That is why I am considering moving from HS5 experience to HS8 (imagining that a bigger speaker will have more present bass).

I thought about the KRK Rokits because I had personal experience in a studio in Curitiba/Brazil, where the recording operator and the main mixer/mastering professional were using KRK RP8 G2 for their tasks. But after viewing a series of youtube reviews and reading texts, I noticed that KRK have too uneven low ends, too colored. As well I saw a very prolific music teacher and youtuber using Tannoy Reveal as main speakers, he is a professional and he is using a cheap monitor. Am I then, as lame as I am, thinking too much?

Thank you and best regards.

(obs.: if anybody here is from Frankfut, let's have a chat!!)

 

[pcrecord]

That is why I am considering moving from HS5 experience to HS8 (imagining that a bigger speaker will have more present bass).

Why don't you just add their subwoofer instead, you'll get far more bass and lower frequencies than the HS8 can produce.
Also note that the HS series need about a meter from the wall to develop lowend content. if you don't have that space (this is my case), then you definetly need their sub !
I got the HS8 first and was low on bass to my taste and added the sub.. now it's the perfect setup for me..
I'm guessing the HS5 and Sub would also be a very good setup.

 

[amadeustm]

hello again @pcrecord !!

it is alright to put a sub. but i don't have the budget at the moment to buy 2 monitors+sub. Now I am just considering which monitors to buy. one step at a time, haha. best regards!

 

[pcrecord]

Oh sorry, when you said moving from, I thought you already had them..
In that case, just know that the HS5 are very good and you would need a big room to feel the need to go with the HS8.
My place is small and I'm not at all regretting my HS8, but if you have bass craving ears like mine, a sub is a must..

 

[amadeustm]

Did you ever considered the Yamaha MSP? As I heard, the mids are softer and seems in general more balanced.

 

[kmetal]

Hey there, i had a buddy stationed in Germany for a couple years, ive heard its a lot of fun!

Ive mixed on hs8's, and compared rokit5 (gen3), hs5, and the reveals, at guitar center one afternoon.

Yamaha has a good handle on the mid range, which is the most critical to get right generally speaking. I found the mixes i did on hs8's translated well, and stood up over time. Yamaha doesnt have the most detail or depth in the top, so super detailed stuff may go by unheard. This is less of a problem since your not tracking live instruments where squeaks and hums can be nasty surprises.

I feel the hs5's plus the yamaha sub, is a better option than just a pair of 8's, and a comparable price. Reason being is your allowing each speaker (and amp) to do less work, and focus on a specific range. Clear mids from the 5's and bass from the woofer. With the 8's your asking alot from the 8" cone- articulate mids and accurate bass, and its got to compromise, especially at this price point.

A dedicated sub lets you place the sub physically where it sounds best and tweak its level and crossover to optimize its response. This is something you cant do on the hs8's alone. You may also be able to switch the sub on and off (with a power strip or footswitch) depending how its connected, or if the sub passes signal to the tops while powered off.

With the rokits, the new g4 has been completely redesigned. Supposedly according to their product manager they have decided to aim for a flat response this time, instead of the typical scooped mid sound of previous gen rokits. One of the ways they managed costs of the improved cabinet and drivers, is to incorporate dsp crossovers, and eq, instead of analog components for these.

It may be worth listening to the new krk to see if they exhibit a more clear mid range and better overall response.

I didn't like the the reveals when i heard them. I felt they sounded "cheap" and didn't project anything useful for mixing, or sound good for general listening.

Neumann monitors have gotten good reveiws, id heavily investigate those, especially if your planning on a single pair of speakers.

Fwiw for my interim home studio, im opting hs5's/sub, and looking heavily into rokit5 gen 4, for my secondary set. I never liked the tweeters on the older krk's. I also have a pair of alesis monitor one's mk3, for a third (scooped type) reference. Its worth noting the gen3 krk rokit8's are priced the same as the new gen rokit5's, right now, at least in the states.

(Sorry i typed this as you guys had already responded)

 

[pcrecord]

When it was time to buy new monitors, I didn't try many before I bought the HS8 because I got them at a very low price. Brand new at 50% if I remember.
So I just build up with the sub afterward and never looked back

The MSPs seems very nice too. Having the bass port in the front instead of the back is certainly a +. (specially if you are near a wall)
But I never heard them.. you need to go with your ears and what makes you mix better.

 

[amadeustm]

Hey man, @pcrecord I saw the HS8 in promotion (from 290 to 230) and I bought one speaker. whatever, lets mix in mono! haha just kidding. of course it will be a pair, but they only had one unit. as soon as more units arrive at this price i will buy the second.

but i must be honest to give you guys reason, HS8 is too gigantic to my room. the good thing is to have some more bass meanwhile i dont have the subwoofer (if I ever buy one). but it is enormous. i overestimated the size of my desk. this monitor is maybe bigger than the ones they had in the studio i used to work a few years ago. but now it is done. with time and patience i will do room treatment and focus on finding a new place to live in which I have a nice room to work inside, with enough space to place the speakers (a room with a minimum of 4 meters wide, considering distance from walls being >1.5m each).

But am I calculating it right? HS8 plays 38Hz - 30KHz. For hearing properly 38Hz I will need a distance of 8.9 meters (1130 feet / 38 Hz = 29 feet ~ 8.9 meters)? So I need a room with 9 meters long or 4.5m (considering the wave goes to the wall and comes back)?

How is this different than the HS5 or even the subwoofer? (HS5 that plays 54Hz - 30kHz, where 54Hz needs 6.3 meters, the subwoofer plays 22Hz - 160Hz, where 22Hz needs 15.6 meters)
It is just room size or is it as well minimum listening volume level?

I am a little lost and now thinking that I am totally wasting my money on the HS8. And I cannot figure out how 2x HS5+sub could fit any small room (3x3m).

thanks anyway! cheers!

 

[amadeustm]

just out of curiosity, this is the studio I used to work with. zero idea what are the immense speakers behind the rokits.

 

[pcrecord]

But am I calculating it right? HS8 plays 38Hz - 30KHz. For hearing properly 38Hz I will need a distance of 8.9 meters (1130 feet / 38 Hz = 29 feet ~ 8.9 meters)? So I need a room with 9 meters long or 4.5m (considering the wave goes to the wall and comes back)?

Don't forget the HS have rear bass port, so I think you should calculate the distance to the wall and back.

 

[Kurt Foster]

zero idea what are the immense speakers behind the rokits.

Tannoy DMT 12

 

[kmetal]

Hey man, @pcrecord I saw the HS8 in promotion (from 290 to 230) and I bought one speaker. whatever, lets mix in mono! haha just kidding. of course it will be a pair, but they only had one unit. as soon as more units arrive at this price i will buy the second.

but i must be honest to give you guys reason, HS8 is too gigantic to my room. the good thing is to have some more bass meanwhile i dont have the subwoofer (if I ever buy one). but it is enormous. i overestimated the size of my desk. this monitor is maybe bigger than the ones they had in the studio i used to work a few years ago. but now it is done. with time and patience i will do room treatment and focus on finding a new place to live in which I have a nice room to work inside, with enough space to place the speakers (a room with a minimum of 4 meters wide, considering distance from walls being >1.5m each).

But am I calculating it right? HS8 plays 38Hz - 30KHz. For hearing properly 38Hz I will need a distance of 8.9 meters (1130 feet / 38 Hz = 29 feet ~ 8.9 meters)? So I need a room with 9 meters long or 4.5m (considering the wave goes to the wall and comes back)?

How is this different than the HS5 or even the subwoofer? (HS5 that plays 54Hz - 30kHz, where 54Hz needs 6.3 meters, the subwoofer plays 22Hz - 160Hz, where 22Hz needs 15.6 meters)
It is just room size or is it as well minimum listening volume level?

I am a little lost and now thinking that I am totally wasting my money on the HS8. And I cannot figure out how 2x HS5+sub could fit any small room (3x3m).

thanks anyway! cheers!

Im not an expert with acoustic calculations. One thing to keep in mind is the height and width of the room, the cubic footage/cubic meters. A room doesnt have to have the same length as the wavelength of the lowest frequency the speaker can reproduce to be accurate. Some famous small room ratios, like the ones from sepmeyer, are well under 25ft in lenght. And these were determined to be ratios with the statistically best low end frequency distribution. If your room is 3m x 3m, its going to be difficult to get good bass response since its a square, and likely has a lower ceiling. Bass trapping cannot be stressed enough.

This is where bass trapping comes in. It traps the energy that would otherwise come back out of phase and cause interference.

The advantage to a pair of 5s plus a sub, is you can locate the sub anywhere in the room, ie where is has the best low frequency response. You also have a level control for it, and an adjustable crossover, which further help you tailor the response in the room. The 5 inch speaker cones give you a more articulate mid range than the 8s would due to their size, and the fact that the 8s also have to reproduce bass. The seperate sub also allows you to shut off the subs and check just the mids, assuming the model passes signal while off.

Its your call as to weather the 8s are too much for your room and if the deal was actually worth it. I never heard my mackie hr8 mk2s low end accurately until i moved them from a 12x13 room to a 12x22 sized room. Its one of the few tines the guy at guitar center was actually right! He told me to get the hr6s because the 8s had too much power for the room.

You may want to consider a mixcube to double check the mids in your mix which cant just be bandpassed like lows can. You also will want to experiment heavily with speaker location and the eq switches on the back.

There is school of thought that in small rooms speakers should be placed right up against the front wall for best bass response. Not sure this applies to rear ported speakers. Speaker stands will help you move them around to the best spot.

 

[kmetal]

@pcrecord do you know if the yamaha sub passes signal thru to the mains when powered off? This way you could hookup a little footswitch or wifi plug to the power plug to turn the sub on and off.

The other way i can think of is if you you have the sub hooked up to a dedicated output of the interface as a ".1" in the monitoring system.

 

[pcrecord]

@pcrecord do you know if the yamaha sub passes signal thru to the mains when powered off? This way you could hookup a little footswitch or wifi plug to the power plug to turn the sub on and off.

The other way i can think of is if you you have the sub hooked up to a dedicated output of the interface as a ".1" in the monitoring system.

That's a very good question.. My first thought would be to say no, because the sub has a crossover circuit in between the inputs and outputs. Unless it's passive, shutting down the sub would cut the signal going to the tops.

Of course you could feed the tops from the parallele inputs but I doubt it's a good idea to bypass the crossover...

I'll try to remember to test this tonight when I get to the studio..

 

[Boswell]

There are at least 6 Yamaha subs with varying levels of configuration control (including bypass). Which sub did you have in mind?

I have a KRK powered sub, and I use a simple latching foot pedal for switching the bypass in/out. Any sub that uses a signal relay to switch itself in or out defaults to pure bypass when the mains power to the sub is removed.

 

[pcrecord]

The one that I have is the HS8S :

 

[Boswell]

The HS8S is one of the Yamaha range that does not have a bypass facility. It seems an odd omission to me on an otherwise very good product.

 

[amadeustm]

@pcrecord @kmetal (and everyone involved) so the HS8 arrived and its bass is a punch in my face. it is awesome to hear "Doin' it Right" from Daft Punk, a music that few systems (that I could get in contact with) really are able to play the bass at 0:00:27 of the song. but when you go to "Lose yourself to dance" the whole bass is overwhelming. Now my option is ask the store to send me HS7 or HS5 in exchange. my room is 26m², i don't have many options of location and positioning and the box will have to stay really close to the wall. since i have not enough experience to decide this, what do you suggest? follows a picture for you guys to see the situation. The computer and speakers must be located in that wall. I don't have other option in this apartment.

and the prices, for comparison, since it is part of the decision thinking.

HS5 - 139 eur
HS7 - 179 eur
HS8 - 235 eur

Sub HS8S - 460 eur

 

[pcrecord]

Wait before you make some moves.
The first thing that strucked me in your picture is that you are setup in a corner and you did put the speaker in the corner.. with no apparent audio treatment.
This seems evident that you are going to have a bunch of problems what ever the monitors you use.

If you could move your desk to the middle of the right wall (on the picture) to have equal distance from the side walls, it will greatly change the stereo and frequency balance.
Then on those corners left and right of the desk, if you could add some DIY bass traps. Man it will change your world.
Once the positionning is done, if you still have an unbalanced sound, you could treat the first reflection points on the side walls.

Nice place btw, with great natural light coming from those windows.

 

[amadeustm]

Hehe thanks man.

But unfortunately the table cannot be moved. We live in a "small" apt with not many options for the monitors. That's why I had to put the pc and speakers in that table and in that wall,positioned like that. If I use the right wall, it will be directly on the way. So I have to arrange myself in that corner, as is. :-(

Bass traps that I could are the usual acoustic pads. That's an option. Keep the hs8, then? I was ready to go to hs5's.