Tips on guitar cabinet micing

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by audiokid, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I like the R121, 57 combo and want to perfect this for myself so I thought this thread would be timely since we are talking about phase issues and ribbon mics here as well. https://recording.org/threads/ribbon-condenser-combination-for-lv.62469

    There are plugins like time adjuster. You can flip the polarity and sweep the length of the delay until it thins out the most, then flip polarity back. Anyone use this?

    I've always wanted the Radial Phase Alignment Tool http://www.radialeng.com/phazer.php
    View attachment 17074
    Phazer™ Class-A Phase Adjuster
    • Time align two signals for exceptional clarity
    • 100% analogue, does not 'step' like digital delay
    • Low-pass filter lets you focus the effect
    • Once you try it, you will never mix without
    The Radial Phazer™ is an analogue phase alignment tool that lets you bring two sound sources together so that the fundamentals play in sync. Once in phase, the results are impressive: On electric guitar; you can combine the direct feed of an amp with a room mic to create fat rich tones. On a kick drum, combine the 'attack' sound from a batter head mic with the 'boom' captured by the outer shell mic. On a snare drum, combine the top and bottom mics and on acoustic instruments, combine a close 'spot' mic with a room mic to capture textures like never before.

    The Phazer is designed from the ground up for optimum sound quality. It employs full-size 100% discreet class-A electronics to deliver the warmth and thickness that is simply not possible with chip based devices. This results in smooth, natural sounding phase curves which are particularly noticeable in the lower frequency spectrum. 0º to 180º phase adjustment is performed with a single knob making it easy to zone-in on the sweet spot. For the more adventurous, a 180° polarity reverse switch accesses the 181° to 360° range and lets you create weird to absurd 'Phazed' tonal textures. This is augmented with a variable low-pass filter that lets you focus the effect in the lower frequency spectrum - where phasing is most audible.

    Built Radial tough for the road, the Phazer is equipped with an innovative book-end design that creates a protective zone around the knobs and switches. Construction is 14-gauge steel with an internal I-beam frame that protects the sensitive electronics in even the harshest touring environments. A full bottom no-slip pad provides electrical insulation to eliminate electrical bonding and mechanical isolation to reduce mishap.

    The Radial Phazer is a creative tool for the studio designed to expand your tonal palette. Live, it delivers great sound fast. Once you try one, you will never mix without!

    This is an excellent video from Ross Hogarth & Tim Pierce on guitar cabinet micing with a Royer R121 / SM57 /58 combination


     
  2. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    I've always thought that radial box looked cool. I've never used a royer, but have had good luck w a 57 close and 414 a few feet away for rock guitar.
     
  3. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I've always used a single cab. Are there additional micing steps you take for twins etc?
     
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    I have a few Audix CabGrabber's here, really like how they work but was wondering if the cabinet vibration would transfer through the pipe and into the mic causing some weird sonics. I suspect I could end up needing a shockmount. Once I get my new studio up, I will share my thoughts but in the mean time, these are pretty cool too.

    Anyone ever use the Audix CabGrabber?



    http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/audix-cab-grabber
     
  5. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple CabGrabbers, and haven't ever noticed any problems with vibrations, but a shockmount couldn't hurt.
     
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  6. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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  7. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    Nothing too special other than my personal preference of both cabs on the floor side by side instead of stacked. You feel the bass more and the speakers aren't at head level which is rough on the ears.

    I think you may get a more raucous tone from a single cab/head but I've always liked the sound of two better for my own rigs. There's more dimension to the sound and if you use two different cab models you can really get deep. Coming from a rock and roll perspective.
     
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  8. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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  9. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Distinguished Member

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    I haven't use that particular model but I have used that type of mount a bunch of times live with no issues. I'm personally budgeting some cash for Atlas or K and M stands for all my new Mics.

    Want one soooo bad. Two or four maybe lol.! Way too cool.
     
  10. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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  11. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

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    Chris ... s little while back, we talked about a particular phase alignment plug from Pyramix.
    I know there are other alignment plugs as well, but IIRC, you had done some research on the Pyramix plug and you were impressed.
    If you do a search of your posts with your name and "pyramix" I'm sure it would come up. I'd look for it myself and post a link but I'm on my iPhone and my charge level is really lo and is about ready to die. Lol
     
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  12. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    This is a good one :
    https://www.soundradix.com/products/auto-align/

    Thing is a lot of people make a big fuss about phase alignement but it is not always a problem. It could also be a EQ tool to achieve a desirable sound.
    The most important thing is to be aware of it and make it your ally instead of your enemy.
     
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  13. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Ah good memory, Donny I forgot about that. (clicking on tags, phase correction systems https://recording.org/tags/phase-correction-system/ brought it us and all the related as well) Thank you!

    Its a Merging Technologies plugin called paNoir
    https://recording.org/threads/pannoir-advanced-panning-plugin-from-merging-technologies.59843/


    And there is this as well,
    https://recording.org/resources/roger-schult-w2324-phase-shifter-module.370/
     
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  14. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Well said, Marco.

    In fact, anyone who grew up in the 70's using analog synths knows the power of freq modulation filters. I use phase modulation all the time to find and create the perfect blend for kicks, bass tracks, snares, lead lines etc. Phase blending is the secret weapon to fat bass, fat lead breaks!
    I recently added the Nord Lead 4 to my instrumentation arsenal. That keyboard is a morph filter monster .
     
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  15. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

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    I own both hardware and software versions of the Little Labs IBP. Can't be beat for the price and they aren't cheap. What they are is invaluable especially when you really need them.

    I use the Royer R101 with antique SM57's. My favorites. I'm also prone to use the Sennheiser 906 and 609's.

    Another old timey trick that works well as a multi-mic technique on guitar amps is a mid-side imaging. AND I usually put it in the BACK of an open backed combo amp. It's really cool for that clean picking and finger techniques. On this I use an old Studio Projects B3 in fig of 8 and a 57 or an Audix i5 for my mid mic. The Studio Projects is an original one and is actually a pretty good sounding mic. It's got a really tight null and works well in this situation. It really helps that I have a preamp that has M/S metering to get things just right. True Systems P2 Analog. Killer pre.BTW
     
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  16. Mario-C.

    Mario-C. Active Member

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    Have you guys tried mic'ing more than one speaker instead of using two mics on just one speaker ?

    For some reason I get a bigger sound that sounds more like the cab in the room than using two mics on just one speaker but I'm curious to read if anyone else likes to do this ...
     
  17. pcrecord

    pcrecord Quality recording seeker ! Distinguished Member

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    Of course Mario, if you have the space and ressources, micking 2 cabs makes a larger sound.
    Even more if you record a second part on the second cab.

    Thing is using 2 mics on 1 cab is not always about producing a stereo signal.
    Blending the 2 sounds in mono lets you change the texture of the sound, specially if the mics sound different. (ex : Ribon and dynamic)

    I saw an engineer do a recording of 2, 3 and even 4 cabs in a room with only room mics.. this leads to unique sounds !
     
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  18. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

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    Where appropriate. If I'm micing a multi-speaker cabinet I might mic two different speakers. It's really cool if they are different types of speakers.
     
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  19. Mario-C.

    Mario-C. Active Member

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    I've yet to try mic'ing more than one cab ! What I've done is mic both speakers on a 2x12 but on the same cabinet, tried two mics on just one speaker too but I liked the sound of two different speakers better, sounds more like the cab, but I don't always use both mics in the mix.
     
  20. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

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    I don't either. Mostly it's one or the other in a multi-mic single speaker feed. But there are the moments when both the mics make a beautiful noise together. These times I buss them together and will usually commit to them by making a stereo track with both mic's mix as one. Sometimes I'll run them both out through hardware and then back into a mono or stereo track. Of course it's never "real stereo"...it's multi layered mono to a stereo fader.
     
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