Upgrade time , Native or DSP ?

Discussion in 'Microphones (live or studio)' started by rsenese, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. rsenese

    rsenese Guest

    I am looking at uprading my current DAW setup but there are so many factors to consider since the tecnology is changing so fast . I am currently running :

    MAC 9500/G3 400
    OS 8.6.1
    Pro Tools 5.0
    Pro Tools III Hardware ( 32 Track )
    (5) DSP Farms
    (4) 882 I/0
    Miro DC30+

    This has been a rock solid system but I'm limited to 16 Bit resolution and unable to mix in surround .I was considering upgrading to a MIXPLUS system but the last time I bought this setup I got burned because Digidesign released the d24 card a month later and I really don't want to be limited by the hardware .

    I've been considering going with a native system ( Nuendo or DP3 )but I cannot figure out how it will perform on larger projects ( 40 tracks , basic eq's,some busing + video ).

    I use Digital Performer 3 as a front end to my Digidesign hardware and it is OK when using Digidesigns hardware , but when I run it under MAS the screen redraws are slow , the counter stops , video is jerky etc .., I know it is my computer but if native systems perform that way it just won't due .My question is , are the native systems up there yet to compete with Pro Tools or other DSP based systems ?

    Ive been looking for real world reviews on Native Sytems ( Track counts,screen redraws,video playback , etc.. ) and really can't find any info.

    So if there are any Nuendo or DP3 users out there using these systems please let me know on the performance ( Track count , DSP , redraw ,video playback ) as well as your system configuration ( PC or MAC ).

    Thanks in advance
  2. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Well..I use Nuendo on a PC and absolutely love it..now, you said the magic phrase that is Oh So Important....NATIVE BASED!!!! That means it depends on your system to fully be able to handle what you throw at it...now, DP3 is MOTU and we all know how wonderful MOTU is on thier first release of products...buggy as hell!! Then again I havent touched DP3 as I really cant stand DP to begin with!!
    Now..as far as Nuendo goes..my system which is a PIII 650 ATA66 hard drives(two @ 7200RPM) 512MB RAM..dual monitor AGP video card..a Layla20 bit model..I can get 40+ tracks with all 8 effects sends activated and about 10 or 12 Waves plugins before my system starts to slow down on the drawback for video! Audio still plays fine tho..If my system were newer..like a Dual PIII 1Ghz..then I could do twice as much..also with SCSI that would boost it even more!!
    The Mac version of Nuendo right now is not there yet..they have a lot to do before it's working right. If you go to the Nuendo.com forums you will see some unhappy Mac users...to be honest..PC's are truly making better performance than Mac's are these days..Nuendo is great..any hardware you so desire and no expensive either..especially with the Hammerfall cards and the UAD cards combo...
    I would check out Nuendo before shelling out tons o money to Digi
  3. rsenese

    rsenese Guest

    Thanks for the advice , I will have to check out the PC's with Nuendo .
  4. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    FYI...you might want to look at this...
    Stuff as much DDR SDRAM in there as you can afford, and I believe your question is pretty much answered.
    On the other hand, if you haven't done so yet, you really owe it to yourself to look deeply into Soundscape. They have rock solid products, their customer service and support are second to none, and they still support the products they made from day one.
  5. synergy

    synergy Guest

    i second everything that opus said-nuendo is the way to go and has a great future!
  6. mixKID

    mixKID Guest

  7. mixKID

    mixKID Guest

    maybe i'll be killed for saying this ......

    don't give up your PT rig ......IV"E MADE THIS MISTAKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i know that the world WANTS there to be something better...Trust me, theres nothing.

    farm cards.. farm cards.. farm cards..
    MIX3 , soft samplecell , direct connect..

    or ...

    3rd party crap ....tech support "blame games"
    inaccurate , sloppy sync , sessions that
    cough , skip ,"lie to you" (i.e. running pluggs
    when theres no resourses to run them ,resulting
    in frozen playback as well as about 100 other surprises.) "bounced" files that sound
    NOTHING AT ALL like the mix you just did,
    and, LATENCY, almost unuseable amounts
    from even the MOST expensive sound cards.

    by the time you work around all of that
    you HATE whatever session your working on
    and you want to chuck it .....

    (when native systems can handle 1/4 of the functions
    that i put my rig through befrore lunch....i may get one for the house)

    just my opinion ...but if you have a choice
    (unlike most of us) wait about 3-4 more years
    before saying good bye to protools...
    by then the war of dsp cards should bring down the price of ALL daws..

    PT 5.1.1 is an amazing step From 5.0
    (mutichannel tracks, full INTEGRATED surround)

    anyway ....hope this helps

    p.s. i would like to see the vst platform
    step in and get some cards (good ones please) to compete on a higher level..
  8. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    DSP cards...hmmm..The UAD-1 Plugin card with the RME Hammerfall card and Nuendo...a system that cant be beat...seriously! Build a Dual AMD or Intel system..RME 9652 card, one or two UAD cards, SCSI or RAID drive array..you have one kick ass system that is sooo much cheaper and more performance oriented than you could imagine..yes PT systems can rock but teh fact of the matter is you are limited to what you can put into it as far as hardware...yes, it's growing and yes even Digi has the blame game going on as well...
  9. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    So, Opus, is there now a good chipset for dual P3's, which is to say non-Via? And are there still the same reservations there had been with AMD chipsets or have those issues improved?

    (I'm gathering that the P4 is still only a decent performer with Rambus memory (=expen$ive). Word is a DDR-ram chipset will be out next year, but are there other issues for the P4 for music apps?)

  10. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Unfortunately there are no Intel based Dual PIII mainboards by Asus or Abit..the only two boards I will go with! After several amazing reports from forum members from the Nuendo site and some friends of mine I have decided to go with the Asus CUV4X-D...it's a Via based board..they have fixed many of the issues with the newest drivers and things look good so far..4GB of RAM..plus much more..that and a SCSI or IDE RAID system would rock the planet hard core..
    P4's...well, until most software manufacturers rewrite their code(which I think Cubase has) they're nothing! You basically have a PIII! Prices arent that bad but no need to go that route just yet..I think I'm going to wait until platforms are true 64bit before going to anything in the superior processor land! Once that has been implimented I'll spend whatever it takes to make a system for that!! I'd be blown away at what could be done at that point!! Imagine...200+ tracks with effects and so forth and so forth!!!
  11. rsenese

    rsenese Guest

    Thanks for the info. on the Nuendo systems.I'm still in the process of researching PC based DAWS.
    I've been looking into getting a custom built DAW from Soundchaser . Has anybody heard about their systems . It cost something like $9500 for a rack mounted Dual Pentium 3 1 Ghz , 512 ram , 2 36 GB Ultra SCSI audio drives , Nuendo and 9652 card pre-installed and configured plus a Pinnacle DV2000 video card .To me that's not to bad of a price considering that for me to upgrade my PT III cards to a MiX PLus is $9000 , plus additional (2) Mix farms at $3500 a piece and (2) 888 interfaces at $3500 a piece and a new MAC G4 at $3500 .I was looking at getting this nuendo sytem and 3 or 4 UAD-1 cards for one monster system that is half the price .

  12. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Geez...they charge an arm and a leg dont they!!! Then again it is rack mounted isnt it? Hmm...if you want I could put a price package together for you and beat their price!! Let me know
  13. Dedric

    Dedric Guest

    I've been hearing good comments for the most part about Nuendo, and am curious if anyone can honestly compare sound quality between Nuendo, DP and Logic, etc. Logic 5 holds some promise with POW-r dithering included, and I've heard some people put DP at the top of the list when comparing Paris, DP and Nuendo. Just curious - your honest opinions - no product loyalties please :) .

    What OS are you guys running for dual proc. support with Nuendo?

  14. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Well...any program can sound good as long as you know what you are doing...I have used all programs extensively..Logic does have a good sound to it but it's too damn complicated to learn at first and I like the Steinberg's interface better..Having used Cubase for a long time I totally heard a difference in sound quality right away..Dp to me doesnt capture the sound properly..it adds something to it I dont like..plus stereo imaging seems to be lacking in some ways!
    For dual proc support it's Win2k or the new WinXP Pro..XP Home doesnt offer dual proc support
    Nuendo is very stable on the PC side..great sounds and so forth...that's my loyalty!!!
  15. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    I forgot to ask, which software can actually reap the benefits of dual processors? Nuendo, I'd imagine. Logic is the only other candidate I'm interested in for multitracking DAW. How about 2 track editors/"mastering"? Softsynths?

  16. synergy

    synergy Guest

    i'm not sure if samplitude does, but in its current incarnation it surely can hold the water to nuendo (except that it does not directly accept vst-plugs, it only does with an adapter)

    if someone still wants a dsp-based daw, there is also pyramix from merging which has an excellent reputation (especially for its soundquality!), and is the only one so far which accepts sacd/dsd (except from daws built primarily for mastering)!

    it is also very cheap compared to protools!

  17. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Oct 7, 2001
    Cubase also supports dual processors.

  18. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Nuendo indeed supports dual procs..I dont think it's really neccessary for two track editors to need dual procs..I'm sure there are benefits to it but never really saw a need for them to use dual procs...what the hell are you doing to the two tracks that you need two processors for?!!!! lol
    Opus :D
  19. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Damned if I know, Opus, I'm still editing with a razor blade. :p I suppose I'd want the horsepower to run plugins at as high a quality as possible. Then again, I'm giving Logic a serious look in the event that PT goes native and Mix Farms and Mix Cubes are "obsolete", so I could run the Sony Oxford EQ (GML version) on the cheap. I suppose I should look into TDM support for editors if I go that way.

    Which leads me to another question tickling my brain, has anyone run more than one each of the UA and t.c. cards? Except for proprietary plugs, is their any real need to go with these if you have your computer zooming?

  20. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    And is it really tape you are editing with that razor blade? hmmmm?!!! lol :p <sniff>
    wondering if thats why you are using so many plugins on a two track editor!! Just like those lovely Steely Dan mixes....ha ha ha ha!!!

    I know of a few people using multiple UA cards from the Nuendo forum...they say it's makes the world of difference even if your system is slammin!! I'd like to get a UA card eventually but I need to save up some cash and I dont really see a need for me to get one to be honest..I just do minimal recording by myself here so I dont think I ever will go that route...but ya never know do ya!!
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