Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by joshjones, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. joshjones

    joshjones Guest


    I have some simple but fairly good quality recording equipment at home and also a P.A. which is used largely for vocals at small band shows.

    I am not a professional recorder but I am a professional musician and I know the benefit of spending more money to get good quality gear.

    I am currently looking at some eq/compression units but would like to get one that is suitable for live sounds (mainly vocals) and recording. Your VEQc2000 sounds like a very good unit by all reports.

    1) Is the unit suitable for recording and pulling a good live sound?

    2) Is it a massive overkill for someone who isn't running a pro recording studio and doesn't have piles of experience?


  2. Sebatron

    Sebatron Well-Known Member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Hi Josh .

    It's not really designed as a live unit., but could definately benefit sound reinforcement by providing some subtle musical enhancement.
    More specifically it may take off some harsh upper mid action by highlighting everything around the squelchy areas...

    If you're creative ,... it will keep you occupied. Actually tracking through the unit also has it's uses.
    Some owners use it for guitar , others use it for drum sub-mixes , others use it for full mixes .... some for vocal mixes...
    In my early days as an engineer , i used to use the early prototype just for kick and bass when mixing ,, it would make the mix TOTALLY jump out with real solid bottoms.
    I'd put the two in panned center and what came out was a 3-D bass and kick ... i'd pan the output left and right coming back on the deck ,, and it actually was different than a mono send coming back.It was doing its own Stereo Enhancement in the bottom register..... subtle but it was wide enough to change the track ...
    If you have or find a copy of The Avelanches ' Rock City ' 12" on vinyl ..... I used it on that.
    Other occasions i'd use it just for the Toms mix , to take out any bottom mids or if the drummer was too hard to work with... :lol:

  3. joshjones

    joshjones Guest

    yeah, I didn't think it was really made for live use.

    I only use my own P.A. set up live for when just vocals is required so for live situations the compressor will just need to sweeten up the vocal sound and get it out there over the band a bit more.

    For recording on the other hand it would be good to have something that's more versatile and I'm thinking I should focus on something that can do a great job with recording (which the VEQc2000 obviously would) and just add a little extra class to the vocal sounds for live situations.

    So after reading your last response my questions are;

    1) When referring more specifically to live vocal sounds is the VEQc2000 going to be useful or pretty much just a hassle?

    2) Am I just going to be too novice to use this unit for recording? I'm in no way an experienced engineer. I think I have a fair idea what a good sound is but usually find myself trying to achieve this through trial and error and creativity. Like you said, "If you're creative ,... it will keep you occupied." so this could mean I'll spend endless hours "occupied" by this unit's endless options and variables without the knowledge and experience to make the most of it's potential. Without having any firm idea of what my knowledge and experience is would you say that would be likely?

    3) On the flip side, would you say this is a great chance to develop a more in depth knowledge of recording by getting involved in some more high-quality, complex gear that really is good rather than aimed at novices.

    I've seen units like the new Alesis CLX-440 which by all reports is very good for its price range and is aimed at live and recording use. It also costs a fair bit less than the VEQc2000 but I don't want to make a financially driven decision - I want to get the unit that's going to improve my live vocal sound and give me more professional recording results without being too much of a hassle and a brain strain.

    If you can make some sense of what I've just written I'd love to hear more. Your last response may have started me onto the road to some enlightenment...
  4. Sebatron

    Sebatron Well-Known Member

    Dec 22, 2002
    It should never be a hassle.
    It's quite straightforward ,,, in a live context you'd probably be working the E.Q section to get rid of any obtrusive frequencies.... usually in the upper mids.... while maintaining clarity and sweet tops by working the ' air ' parameter...
    Only some subtle compression may be applicable as your chances of feedback in a live context greatly increase with the use of any type of compression on an ungated mic.
    You could have it on a sub-group ( not effects send/return ) and send the appropriate instruments/vocals that require the treatment.
    It's not going to sound like the Alesis because the gain stages ( the ' active ' electronics ) are of a totally different makeup.I mean with valves you're talking a glass bottle with pieces of metal in a vacuum that are heated by a filament.
    That's a totally different thing to an I.C or a transistor... a little piece of semi-conductor .... it's completely different so it's behaviour is going to be different....How?? ..... by the way it re-acts to dynamics , how it's own dynamics change with the spectrum , what it adds to a raw signal ..... etc....
    Don't get me wrong ,, that Alesis is real good value ,, it looks great , it probably feels great too ..... and of course used the right way it should sound great .....
    I looked up a review which seemed quite positive although one of the weak points was stated thus:
    .... you see that's excactly what i'm talking about .....
    There also doesn't appear to be any E.Q or ' sweetening ' parameters ... it's all about dynamic control ..... i.e expansion/compression ....
    However , with that ' lookahead ' feature you should be able to do some tastey peak limiting if you want to create LOUD mixes or masters ....
    I don't like 'Custom Chips ' .... never have ......
    All our gear is made from easily accesable parts ,,, at the moment anyway . I hate custom parts ,, from my days in service and repair I remember that... waiting for some freaking part or chip ( like an SSM ) or sometimes these companies would stop making them so you had to get an equivilent .......

    Well you'd probably get to know it quicker than the Alesis...
    I'm sure you know about E.Q , and compression is easy once you get a good grasp of the concept.
    A badly set up compressor isn't as bad as a badly set up expander/noise gate ,,, those things can foul up your sound without even hearing it ... Then again a badly set up compressor could ruin everything as well.

    Just follow your ears man ....
    It should be obvious if you're taking your sounds in the right direction by your own reaction and the people around you.
    It's a lot like music or cooking too ,,, I mean a LOT of musos can't read or write manuscript or sheet music but still play great with soul , ... and they sometimes may find it harder to communicate an idea if they don't know common words with other musos...
    Knowing too much can be limiting too .... it really depends on your approach to audio engineering or production.
    ART or CRAFT?

    Put it this way ,,, if you've been eating ' Big Macs ' most of your life , you should try some of those Real Hamburgers.....
    I don't mind both actually. :cool:

  5. joshjones

    joshjones Guest

    Thanks for all the help. It's been priceless. I really appreciate the time that you've taken out to help me.

    I really like what you said about how the unit will "react" to what's happening. I've always hated transistor (and similar) equipment for that reason. A dirty sound, for example, is always so much more satisfying when it can be just a little edgy when you are playing lightly then dirties-up as you dig in. It allows for so much more expression and creativity.

    If I'm going to get more of that out of a VEQc2000 then I might go for it.

    ...I'm really getting over Big Macs these days anyway...

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