Vocals in mix

Discussion in 'Vocals' started by Cosme, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. Cosme

    Cosme Guest

    Hi guys, I´ve always had some problems with vocals in my mixes, I was wondering, what´s the secret to really including your vocal tracks in the mix, my vocal tracks sound ok, but sometimes I can´t manahe to fit them in the rest of the mix, so they tend to sound "kareoke-like", any tips on this matter? Thanks!
  2. nothin-yet

    nothin-yet Guest

    what do you normally do with your vocals after recording them (compression, EQ, etc...)?
  3. hithome

    hithome Guest

    if the vocalist is decent sounding enough, have him/her double it.
  4. TheFraz

    TheFraz Active Member

    Feb 5, 2007
    try mixing the vocals in first and then mix the rest of the song around them.
  5. Cosme

    Cosme Guest

    I normally EQ, then compress with waves Rcomp, then use waves Rvox. I normally roll off a bit around 1K looking for nasal sound, then roll of another bit around 300-500 looking for muddy sound and if it´s too silibant, I´ll use a De esser at the end of the chain. I mean the sound is nice, but it always seems a bit to in front of the mix, I´m looking for a sort of Silverchair sort of sound (referring to the way the vocals sit in the mix)
  6. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    Dec 28, 2007
    Paris, France
    Did you try using some delay??? Or maybe, you recorded it too close from the mic...

    I sometimes have the same problem with snares when you don't have enough of it in the OH...

    Any advices???
  7. Bet this is the problem holding up Axl Rose.
    Maybe that is too many things to do to those poor ol' vocals there.
    Re-Record the vocal in stereo. Now you'll have a L and a R channel.
    What was found on playback, is that if the computer freezes or overloads for a second then one of the channels gets "accidentally" delayed and gives a huge sound. It obviously won't save that way and will return to normal after you stop it.
    The way to replicate it is to click, seperate Stereo track.
    Now simply move one vocal, either L or R, forward or back in the mix.
  8. dont sing square on into the mic. try altering the angle of the mic itself, as this can take out quite a bit of shrill and evens out the frequencies a little. it's worth a pop.

    dont be afraid of limiters, they can really help keep the vox under control, allowing you to have them nice and upfront in the mix without that kareoke kinda sound.

    also, try a real slow and light chorus, with not alot of feedback or depth. using that subtly can make things sparkle.

    if you run compression over the whole mix, as you mix it down, you can hear when the vox are overbearing as the music starts to drop out. bring it in and out to compare and contrast.

    hope this helps dude..
  9. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    Cocoa, FL
    Home Page:
    Again, this is bad practice and a waste of HD space.
    There is absolutely no reason to record a mono source to stereo tracks and "split them". If you want ADT in a DAW, record your MONO source to ONE MONO TRACK and copy / paste it. The copied track will not take up extra HD space.

    Polly want a cracker?
    (Dead Link Removed)
  10. There is no such thing as wasted hard drive space. If it is used then it is not wasted, the hard drive does not care what you use it for.
    Burn the wav. tracks to DVD and then delete them from the poor old HD.
  11. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    Cocoa, FL
    Home Page:
    Hi, filmmusic2008!

    I just deleted 2 paragraphs from the response you are reading now because I thought it might be best to give you the benefit of the doubt.

    You have a major opportunity right now to correct the knuckleheaded posts you've been slappin' onto this site. Think about your previous posts, including the one I'm replying to right now, and consider your next move. When you hit that little REPLY button and start typing, what are you going to accomplish? Are you going to come back at me with an intelligent rebuttal, or are you going to make a feeble attempt proving your preconceived notions about harddrive space and ADT are correct (mister split the stereo file and move it a few ms)?

    You have ONE CHANCE to get this right.

    This is your ONLY warning!
  12. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Dec 10, 2001
    Pacific NW
    Mixing vocals with a DAW shouldnt be such a pain. Ya got the ability to layer track after track after track. If they arent getting bigger then you arent getting them down correctly at tracking. The only way I know to safely assure your self of a great vocal is to make damn sure the original take is full of all the emotion and energy that the lyric and the song call for. If you are layering and doubling a so-so track its still going to be a so-so track.

    It takes a certain mindset to let oneself go completely and really perform the song.

    There are no amount of buttons or devices that can substitute the reality of this fact.
  13. Nothing personal was directed at you.
    If one pastes a copy of a mono vocal track, then a new track is needed in Audacity.
    If you want to suggest a better 192 khz 32 Bit recording program then we are listening.
    The laptop being used has an external HD.
    There are no rules for the recording game.
    It is about performance of the singer.
    PC, not Apple.
  14. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    Dude - seriously.

    Recording a MONO source to a STEREO track is f'ing stupid. It is a direct copy of the exact same thing. THIS IS WASTED HARD DRIVE SPACE. At least if you copy and paste it into a new track, you aren't wasting hard drive space as you don't now have 2 tracks - you have 1 track and 1 virtual track.

    At least that's how MY DAW and most others I've ever tried do it. I don't know how Audacity does it and I don't care.

    Doing what you're talking about is just retarded. If you want to double the track, fine. Recording it in stereo...dumb.
  15. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    Cocoa, FL
    Home Page:
    OK, taking one point at a time:

    No, but when you come to this site and post methods that are inefficient and not necessary, and make broad sweeping generalizations such as "most of us have 4gigs of stereo vocal tracks", etc. then I and my fellow compatriots are gonna correct you. Every time. Count on it.

    What are you saying? Does this mean that every new track in Audacity corresponds to a new physical file on the HD? As soon as you hit Ctrl-V a new file is created and saved to disc? If so, that's silly on Audacity's part. If not, then the statement is irrelevant.

    Sampling rates and bit rates have nothing to do with this discussion - irrelevant statement (though, if you are recording mono vocals to stereo tracks at 192k I'm betting you've got way more than 4gigs of stereo vocal tracks on your HD).

    Good, external drives are a good thing to have, but irrelevant.

    True, but there are rules concerning HD space and effecient usage thereof.

    I have no idea how the singer's performance in an iso booth correlates to the way someone utilizes HD space. Care to elaborate?

    No, both - PC and Apple.
    Both have harddrives, and both can be operated effeciently, or not - your choice.
  16. rockstardave

    rockstardave Active Member

    Mar 3, 2006
    wow guys relax. you're both right.

    recording mono source in stereo does take up hard drive space. if you care about hard drive space then this is a problem. knucklehead does not care about hard drive space, so it's not a problem to him.

    you guys just do it different ways, so what?

    </petty argument>

    <thread topic>
  17. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2007
    Cocoa, FL
    Home Page:
    Sorry guys.

    Please allow me to elaborate.

    There are a lot of folks that are new to the recording biz that eat up this kind of misinformation, some take it a step further and assume that recording a vocal (or guitar, etc.) to a stereo track actually results in a stereo image. Search the site, see for yourself how many posts start off "How come my stereo vocal track doesn't sound like (insert band name here)" or my favorite "Why is it that when I record my vocals to a stereo track they sound the same in both speakers?"
    When we ask these folks how they are recording their vocals, they tell us they are running one mic to a stereo track - they do not know the difference between a stereo track in a DAW and an actual stereo image.
    They think that if it says "stereo" it must truly mean "stereo".

    When someone comes on here and says it's perfectly fine to record vocals to stereo tracks it raises the confusion factor, why not say it's fine to record ALL of your instruments to stereo tracks? How about the kick drum? Or maybe a stereo track of hi-hat?

    Filmmusic is correct, sorta (he leaves out the main ingredients, that being pitch and flange) when he talks about splitting the files and separating them by a few ms - it's ADT, after all. But IMHO, it's bad form to continue to suggest that it's acceptable to record single mono sources to stereo tracks to accomplish it.

    There are far better ways to skin a cat!

    </end elaboration of petty argument>
    I couldn't resist, Rockstar!
  18. There is only theory.
    The point about 4 GB of vocals is if you have an external drive you can let the program record for 30 minutes. I have no hi hats, perhaps I need some. Just a voice and a guitar.

    No iso booth. Move the laptop far enough away to not pickup any fan noise.
    Recording myself, it is best to watch the screen when recording. It works having a stereo track recording, besides there are two mics and a Firewire interface with dual XLR inputs, we are getting a stereo image.
    The advice is to use two mics, though the original answer was what to do with vocals that were already recorded...
  19. TheFraz

    TheFraz Active Member

    Feb 5, 2007
    This is truly a case of, well... misinformation.
  20. Markd102

    Markd102 Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2001
    hmmm yeah, but how do your tracks sound in mono? :roll:
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