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Where is The Music Business Going?

Discussion in 'Music Business' started by audiokid, Jan 4, 2003.

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  1. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

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    Whittier, California, USA
    If all music is free, who is gonna pay the recording studio? Perhaps we should work for free too? Why doesn't everybody work for free? Its not that simple...
     
  2. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Distinguished Member

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    As someone who makes their living in the REAL WORLD by being a mastering engineer I know what you are saying will not and cannot work. There are a lot of people in the music business that are not the artists or performers and they need to feed their families and make a living. If the musicians want to work for free (and most of them would not want to) then the rest of us, recording engineers, producers, mastering engineers replicators, etc would be out of jobs since no one would have any money to pay us for our services . Even if people can do what they love for a living they still have to get paid in order to support themselves.

    Nice idea and in an utopian world maybe but we are talking $$$ and you still need it to buy what keeps you alive and healthy.
     
  3. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying no one can make money. Sure there has to be people that make money and pay bills. But there are far to many people in this industry that put out crap and they will not survive. Industries change with the times and technology. there will be a ton of people making music in the future, but only a handful that will make real money doing it. Just look at history and you can see the writing on the wall. Lets take the printed word for instance. at the turn of the century there were books all over the place, as well as papers, magazines, pamphlets, you name it and it was printed. This employed thousands of typesetters, printers, ink manufacturers, delivery people, artists, and engravers. where are all of them now? maybe there are 10 typesetters in the world, a fraction of the printing presses, etc... Most people can do it all on their own computer and don't need to farm it out. Hell, look how many people I just put out of work with this post. There are some that survived but most didn't. They had to look at other things to feed their families. Some started xerox, others started IBM, you get my point. The printed word didn't die but the way it's done now is very different. Now getting the word out is cheap and everyone is doing it, but not everyone makes money at it. making music will be in everyones hands in a few short years. Garageband by apple is now shipping in every mac. This is an extremely powerful program for free. Hell my grandma can put together something that sounds like 3/4 of the stuff playing on the radio. So who is going to survive? the strongest, most talented people. The bar will be raised and those that can adapt and change will survive. Where is it going to go? If I new that then i'd be a billionaire. When I was a kid, there was a kodak developing boothe on every corner, in every pharmacy, everywhere. People bought cameras and took pictures and developed their film. A handful exist now. Technology has the power to destroy industries and we shouldn't ignore that. If we as audio professionals are going to survive, then we will have to change with the times.
     
  4. pmolsonmus

    pmolsonmus Well-Known Member

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    Jun 23, 2003
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I've read through this thread and some great ideas keep jumping out. Xaviera's got the fire and with enough stick-to-itness could really make things happen.

    My thoughts re: the indie network. Why have anyone decide?
    Why not a pay to play site?

    If an artist/label/producer/etc. wants their stuff heard, they pay a minimal monthly fee to have it listed on the site. Nothing outrageous, but enough to pay for the amount of space it takes up and keep RO operating. A space for reviews upon purchase is available for feedback by the downloader and informs the artist when a purchase occurs. A basic 1-5 stars is available for all to see and a forum (as exists already) is available to discuss the merits of the songs.
    Bad songs get bad reviews and get pulled by the artists- (who's gonna pay to get criticized?) The quality of the reviewer and their ability to judge music could be gleaned from their posts on RO. It's not a random book review by an anonymous person.
    Good songs create a buzz and hopefully sell, or don't and then get pulled. People could market or take out an ad in the scrolling section of the home page, bigger budgets can buy a banner.
    Let the market reign. The only thing that worries me is that I'm sounding like a Republican :wink:
    A running list of most downloaded, highest reviewed songs would be pretty easy to track.

    Certainly details could be worked out, but I think the future is being hinted at in these posts.

    Phil
     
  5. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Distinguished Member

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    Yes there is too much CRAP being put out today but doing it for free is just going to increase the amount of CRAP. At least now if you are not getting paid because no one likes what you are doing you will, hopefully, change to make your stuff more saleable.

    As to the printing "revolution" computers are tools. Tools in the right hands can create wonderful things. Tools in the wrong hands can create rubbish. Just because someone has a computer (or typewriter for that matter) does not mean they are a writer. The reason that there are no typesetters around anymore is because the computer took the drudgery out of a task that was both dirty and prone to mistakes. The problem was that many of the typesetters were also artist when it came to laying out a page. I remember the days before pagination in a newspaper I worked at. All the material had to be pasted together and then photographed and then later the pictures had to be had cut into the film after they were "screened" at the correct dot size. Now it is all done with computers and when the computer came in the people at the newspaper who did the layouts had two choices, either learn the new way or retire.

    I learn something new everyday. The day I stop learning will probably be the day I die. Things ARE changing and are changing at an ever increasing rate. Audio Engineers and Musicians need to stay at the peak of the learning curve if they are to survive. This has to be fueled by money since it cost money to stay current with technology.

    To give something of value away is to lose it forever. To charge someone a reasonable fee for its use is the way people make money. If people give things away other people may think that it is because the stuff has no value. I don't believe that is the way you survive in this current financial climate.

    FWIW
     
  6. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

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    Whittier, California, USA
    Now we are getting somewhere folks- Most of this thread has been about the problems- this here is part of the solution- The problem has been identified well, lets do more of this brainstorming and we'll eventually get somewhere- way to go Phil!
     
  7. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    Two thumbs up!
     
  8. Greetings :)

    Just read through the whole thread while backup up my DAW projects. Great thread, and some cool ideas.

    I was just wondering, however, how many of the 17,000 members are regular visitors?

    Has any admin folks ever done any stats? Such as how many people have posted, say, at least once a wekk over the last three months?

    I'm sure an RO Record Company ( mp3 Company? ) could work with the right formula regardless of how many people regularly post, but it would be interesting to see how many currently actually do.


    Paul :)
     
  9. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

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    We are going in that direction- we need to build the fires higher before we start, so keep the input coming!
     
  10. vhollund

    vhollund Guest

    Hello there
    It seems that more and more people shares a new 'doom'opinion
    about the musicbiz.
    From where i see it, wich is maybe a narrow perspective, the biz has never been as controlled as it is now.

    Everything in the radio is paid for and decided by the people with all the money from the start to the end.
    Shortly said, the fact that the biz so much lacks surprices, and that most of the money beeing made doesnt go to artists, makes alot of people think like me:
    "Hey if that biz is in trouble, that might not be all that bad"

    The most downloaded songs are Britney Spears and EM.
    If the biz is forced to renew the thinking , thats just wonderfull.
     
  11. vhollund

    vhollund Guest

    About the Web idéa..
    it sounds like Yahoo Launch :
    http://launch.yahoo.com/

    The evaluation system of the songs is not bad.
    You have a radiostation that plays the song and while the song is playing you can make your personal evalution , from 'dont play it again' to 1 'its ok' to 5 'this is my favorite music'

    The evaluation is then stored, and when you listen (logged in) you hear the music that you want plus the music you havent evaluated yet.

    In this way noone is made king of taste but the listener himself.
    Offcourse the site will have storage limits like yahoo.

    The problem is to find someone (The president) honest enougth that will not make the nonlukrativ association into his personal Bizness, when it starts to be popular.
    That will (realisticly seen) be so difficult that you might as well make sharing contracts rigth away.
     
  12. Karyn

    Karyn Guest

    The RIAA is losing money.... I'm starting to choke up...I don't know if I can continue typing..Someone please help them.


    They've stolen so much from muscians for so long it's LOL funny that their being robbed blind now, and their whining about it. I think that's called Karma. What comes around goes around boys. Choke on it.
    http://www.karynwhittemore.com
     
  13. vhollund

    vhollund Guest

    *hehe* Exactly my point! I saw this grammyshow where everybody was supposed to cry over a moral speech saying that sharing was the bad guy. Its all politics and its not for democratie. Alot of artists share the opinion that it will hurt THEM last if the bissnes suffer.
    Most musicians make most of their money from concerts anyway, if they are not Robbie Willams.

    But good idéas is allways a good thing! :cool:

    Sharing is not robbery , taking the honor for other peoples ideas and acheivements is.
     
  14. NolanVenhola

    NolanVenhola Guest

    This is crap. That whole post was crap. All I hear is worried muttering from a conservative studio owner who is afraid he's going to lose his shirt because of music downloading.

    If artists were to produce their own music and pay for the production we'd have creative, personal, unique music flowing out the doors. You'd get more business.

    Consumers aren't stupid ignorant kids. They are adults, teenagers, mother's father's cousin's sister's brother's.... all looking for the same thing. music they enjoy.

    The only cd's THEY get to listen to when the RIAA is in control is pure S*** stuffed down their throats by the RIAA on MTV, Much Music, The Grammies (which is one giant commerical for the industry, not a real contest of talent), and every music award show, every music commerical ever produced.

    You have to dig so deep in that pile of crap to get any real music out of it.

    Downloading music isn't stealing people. It's call the right of the consumer. If I don't like what you are doing, I will voice my opinion.


    The consumers have spoken.
     
  15. daceymathers

    daceymathers Guest

    I believe the bulk of the wealth in the music industry was built on monetize ownership of the music, in the last 20 years, through the CD-Release complex and whatever was going on before.Now everyone realizes that, technology helping, monetize ownership of the music is slowly fading away and they try their best to get into the monetize access to music game, pulling on their fractions of cents and .0001 percentage points before others do it faster and better.
     
  16. duanecharles

    duanecharles Active Member

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    Where is music going? In today's music environment it is not really about, where the music industry is headed, illegal downloads, getting play time, radio time or whatever. It all all about the business of branding. It human nature to follow trends and associating oneself with what everyone else is doing, buying or listening to, even if the quality of music is sub par compared to other artists. The end game is going to come to down to, who or what is the most marketable of music brands.

    If you can take someone like Kim Kardashian (and I am not sure what the hell her talents are!) and make her one of the worlds most marketable brands, then there is a good chance the old way of thinking needs to change.

    The internet now levels the branding playing field for every artist, but very few artists know what is or how to take advantage of it like most successful businesses do. Most artist don't even bother to invest in their own website... just send me to Facebook to see an established logo of another prominent brand that is not their own.
     
  17. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Distinguished Member

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    The "consumer" is the one who consumes the goods and services produced. As such, consumers plays a vital role in the economic system of a nation because in the absence of the effective demand that emanates from them, the economy virtually collapses. Mahatma Gandhi said a customer is the most important visitor in our premises. He is not dependent on us, we are on him. He is not an interruption to our work, he is the purpose of it.

    The whole article can be viewed here Consumer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You cannot be a true "consumer" without purchasing something and if the music business was "free" then no one would be making any money and they would not be able to "consume" other goods and services.

    Your ideas are very egalitarian and that can be a very good thing or a very bad thing depending on what side of the capitalistic society you are on. If you have to make money to live then doing something for free is not good. If you are very wealthy or very poor then money is not part of the equation.

    Downloading music off the WWW hurts everyone except maybe the person who is stealing someone else's intellectual property and giving nothing back in return. If you take an IPOD from Best Buys, according to your ideas that would not be stealing it would be ????????. Why is theft of intellectual property any different???

    I love music and want it to be around for centuries but without some influx of cash it will slowly die. There is no way to support music without some form of financial support. Even back to the classical era composers and musicians, for the most part, had to have a patron who would support them and pay them enough to live in return for their services.
     
  18. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

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    Oct 31, 2005
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    How does anyone make money if no one is going to concerts and everyone is getting their music for free? There has to be some sort of valuation. Subscription service? Why not subscribe to unlimited downloading? Or how about bandwidth limited subscription? Cloud based? Spotify?
     
  19. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

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    Oct 31, 2005
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    I thought I'd add this link to a post from Bob Lefsetz. This is just the first of many posts from many people who work with the big boys. The Lefsetz Letter can be found here. I posted a good portion of the rest of the posts here.

     
  20. audiokid

    audiokid Chris Staff

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    BC, Canada
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