Which windows????

Discussion in 'Computing' started by speedracer, Feb 4, 2002.

  1. speedracer

    speedracer Guest

    I know that I have probably missed some good discussion on this already, and I don't mean
    disrespect by posting a completely new topic for this. However, what are the feelings about
    Win98/2000/XP. I am running an athlon 900Mhz DAW with an Echo Layla/Mia on 98 (software
    sonic foundry vegas/sound forge). As far as I know the WDM drivers for this setup are
    beta only and they don't work on 98 apparently. Actually, I have no idea what a WDM driver
    is? I would like to upgrade to a dual proc machine. The following:

    dual Athlon MP 1700
    Asus A7M266-D
    Promise ATA/133 card
    Maxtor 80 gig drive (partitioned into 10 or 20 gig sectors)
    Western Digital 40GB OS drive
    512 DDR PC2100 RAM

    I am also thinking about staying with a single processor system

    Athlon XP 1800
    Asus A7M266
    512 DDR PC2100 RAM
    Same drives/card

    Specific Questions

    1) Depending on which system, which OS would be best?

    side questions

    2) Will an XP processor work with an MP processor in the A7M266-D motherboard?
    I'm thinking about the possibility of future upgradability.

    3) What is the difference between ECC and non-ECC ram?

    Any help would be muy muy appreciated!

  2. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Speed - If you can only afford one OS, as of today it should be 2k. Mainly driver availability, XP is basically a facelift and a couple other minor (to audio guys) changes, but everybody's screaming about drivers for XP. I intend to triple boot my new system - 98SE, 2k, and XP - I know my stuff works under 98, think it will under 2k, and hope it will under XP.

    WDM driver - Stands for "Windows Driver Model", cuts thru a lot of the "crap" layers of windows to bring latency under control. Without them, almost nobody can let you play and monitor in real time. (One difference I saw quoted, drivers being the only change - 30 milliseconds vs. 2 milliseconds. 30 milliseconds is a reasonable "Elvis" vocal effect, maybe a little long - 2 milliseconds is the time it takes sound to travel 21 inches. So, lean 'way back in your mix chair to hear 2 milliseconds, or walk 26-1/2 feet away to hear 30. Apparently no WDM drivers work on 98 first edition, and only SOME work on 98 SE/ME.

    ECC is "Error Correction and Compensating", or something close. In any given system, it requires an extra clock cycle to incorporate, so ECC ram is slower than Non. Usually used in mission-critical servers, but given the level of reliability of today's chips, un-necessary and slightly retarded in the context of a "real time" machine, such as audio/video. Best ram for any audio machine, beyond the right "flavor" that will actually work on the MoBo, is non-ECC, un-buffered (another lost clock cycle), non-parity (if the MoBo supports it) at the lowest CAS Level you can find , and if the info is available, try to match the pin material of the ram to the socket material of the board. (either both gold or both tin) This will make for better longevity thru less corrosion, which is caused by slight galvanic action due to dissimilar metals (can you say "battery"?)
    From what I've read about Dual Proc machines, if you're going to do one, buy the MoBo and BOTH proc's from the same vendor, along with the ram, and have them CERTIFY in writing that the proc's are "stepped" the same. And no, don't even consider mixing proc's on a dual MoBo - It's kinda like putting two different makes of outboard motors with different props on a boat, then wondering why it goes around in circles... Well, bad analogy, just don't, OK?

    Also, on the dual proc machine, if you go with WinXP you will have no choice but to use XP Proffessional. The home version doesn't support dual procs.

    Opus, feel free to chime in here on (at least) Win2k version vs. dual procs - I'm behind in my homework on 2k, but I wouldn't buy it until I knew. (Although, since I'm going with a 2gig P4, and since Intel in their undying arrogance thinks it's fast enough not to need two P-4's, "Frankly, Scarlett, I really don't GIVE a damn...)

    Hope I covered most of your questions - if not, re-read Opus' threads on PC DAW, /2, /3, /4, and you'll be sure to have even more questions (ever notice how knowledge seems to breed ignorance?)

    BTW, check the "software" tab on prorec.com tomorrow - I'll post on "Digital Cafe" under "spreadsheet" when RoomTune is ready. Steve
  3. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Chime....ok, there's my chime....just kidding! Oh the humor is getting really bad here isnt it?!!

    Ok, WDM as Steve has mentioned is Windows Driver Model and does indeed bypass half the crap in Windows for better driver support and lower latency operation(love the Elvis analogy by the way!!) I believe WDM is Win2k only really since 98 is a Dos based shell and Win2k isnt that's what makes it actually work and how it was developed...but I could be wrong, happens to the best of us!
    Win2k is far superior to 98 in all aspects. USB, PCI, hard drives and drivers for everything and anything. Just about all companies have Win2k drivers for their products. WinXP is definately a facelift to 2K and has been having some issues with audio and applications...with any new OS dont be the first kid on the block to have it..you're just putting yourself in the troubleshooting realm of computer audio...at that point you start losing your creativity for tech support issues...trust me! I'm a tech and I get home and have no motivation to create music since I have about three hundred emails and postings to do!!!
    Anyways, The best thing to do is stick with what is known to work!! That would be Win2k with Service pack2 installed..indeed 98 does not support dual procs..2k does...XP home does not and XP Pro does
    Also makesure your software you are using supports dual procs!! Very important!! If your OS does but your software doesnt..then having two procs is useless at that point!

    Not sure what else to say here but..yes, gaining more knowledge on this stuff can make you dangerous, hell, look at Steve and I!!!
    We babble endlessly about technology and often have our feet in our mouth!! Ha ha ha ha
    Opus :p
  4. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Opus - I happen to LIKE "toe-jam" - it helps wash down the crow feathers...

    I've only seen "claims" that a few WDM drivers support 98SE and ME, definitely NOT first edition - Wanna try XP to see what the claims of better performance with NTFS-5 are about - 98% of the disk space on the new DAW(480 GB, and that's just the internal) will be FAT32, with a small partition (20 gigs or so) to compare audio recording performance with FAT16/FAT32/NTFS-5, and possibly Linux if anybody ever gets ambitious enough to port SERIOUS production software to it.

    By your post, are you saying that ALL versions of Win2k support multi-proc's ? Or is it same as XP ?

    Also, even if your SW doesn't support multi-threading, you may get SOME boost with dual proc's - In my last DAW, (and probably in the new one) I run Cake/Sonar for MIDI and Samplitude for audio (Hate cake's audio, from the screens to lack of intuity to stupid file management) - Samplitude claims that you can run two instances of the pgm (even on single proc's) and see some improvement, on duals (they say) with a multi-aware OS, that each instance will run on its own proc. I haven't tried this, but have read similar claims elsewhere - In my case this would really help, especially with the old machine - It has a Layla and a DSP Factory in it - As you are probably aware, the DSP Factory, thanks to Yamaha, is worth about $8.00 without somebody else's software to "wake it up" - Because of this, I am running THREE programs and two Hubi's loopbacks on that machine simultaneously on Win 98 (first edition) in order to have decent Midi functions, killer audio functions, and full "virtual" control of the DSP Factory. (Not to mention the Layla "mixer" - what a juggling act...) No wonder I can only get about 36 tracks of audio at 16/44 ! (And only if I hold my mouth just right)

    Speed, other interested parties - posted "roomtune" on ProRec last nite - it hasn't shown up yet, they screen everything before putting it up. Should be there pretty soon... Steve
  5. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Yes, all versions of Win2k support dual procs..there's only two versions of Win2k...Pro and Server!

    Napster Bad...Toe Jam good!!!

    Xp..I dont see any performance difference over Win2k to be honest. I've benchmarked it and done as much tweaking as possible but no difference at all!! Seriously! Performance meter stayed the same on both setups...same machines..two different drives..both the same exact specs and format(NTFS)
    To be honest I think they put too much $*^t into it and hyped it up as usual. granted I do see a smoother response but it doesnt affect performance in the least bit. There are different crashes now and ones that will make your head spin in wonder and amazement!! lol!!
    Also you have to be careful of the security updates as they seem to make a non netowrked system go goobly ga ga goo goo!! interesting eh? It reverts it to a nine year old mentality it seems!
    Cant explain that one..you'll have to see it for yourself! lol

    yeah, that DSP factory is a bitch to use with any software indeed! Sounds like you got your hands full indeed with all that software happening!!
  6. speedracer

    speedracer Guest

    1 question can lead to 20 more! - DAW World Rocks - Its great :D

    Sounds like 2k (service pak 2) is the best way to go for dual proc. Also, I'm going to have to research if sonic foundry has dual processor support ;)

  7. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Uh oh!! we've infected him with too much knowledge Steve!! lol!!

    Dual booting is good for when you have programs that dont run under 98 or devices that dont run on it either. Also good for setting up different Mahcine useages! One boot for internet, business apps, etc etc..one boot for audio only!!
    Now, I dont reccomend dual booting whatsoever...it can get messy. One partition will see the other in one way or the other. if you remove one OS to redo it and add antoher OS there are some files left over that bleed into the other OS partition and can cause some issues. Remember it doesnt actually create a physical barrier..it's a virtual barrier. If your partitions are installed on a fragmented drive the partitions are interleaved..I think from there you can guess that it can cause hell!!!

    i reccomend getting two drives and installin a swappable carriage system..it's what I do..much easier to deal with

    If devices dont have WDM drivers they will still work as long as they are Win2k drivers in the long run. Remember, just because you install a driver and it says it's not Microsoft certified it means nothing!!! It just means that Microsoft hasnt embedded the driver support into Windows..big F'n deal man!! It will still work!!

    Knowledge is powerful man..just dont abuse it..remember, we're trained pro's..trained at what is another questions!!
    Woo Woo Woo!!
    Opus :D
  8. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Opus - Jist 'cuz I ain't no sissified city boy, don't mean I'z one 'o them thar raid neks - I evun rite poetree - chek thisn out -

    I ete my peas with hunny, I dun it all mah life-
    Makes thu pees taste funny, but it keeps 'em on the knife...

    Now that we got all the classy crap outa the way -

    On the subject of dual (triple) boot - couldn't agree more. My last system was win 98/NT4-SP5 dual boot - the way I handled that was to make both the IDE and SCSI drives bootable, then go into bios to decide whether to boot from IDE (Win98) or SCSI (NT4) Since I never could find enough drivers (wonder how Volkswagen does it) for NT, it wasn't a big deal to have NT on the audio recording drive in a small partition. That particular MoBo allowed you to boot from a dog turd you found in the yard if it had good files on it - C,D,CD, Scsi, Syquest, almost anything. Since I'll have 6 physical 80 gig drives in this system, I may be able to do something like i did before if the bios cooperates. If not, I plan to try burning a CD-R of each OS once it's up and running, and tell the bios to boot from CD. Different CD - Different OS. (maybe) This only needs to work well enough to polish the best "turd" for the job, then once everything works without serious glitches I will first ditch the two runner-ups, and second I will personally dis-embowel anyone who gets close to the system with anything that even vaguely smells like updates or changes... My goal is to stop f---ing with computers and just make noise and pictures for at least two years. (Not totally stop with 'puters, just not have to change anything in the studio, except for (a)stuff like "hey, wouldn't that chorus sound great flown in after the second verse" and,(b) My socks - or whatever..)

    Man, the guys at ProRec must need more help - I posted my "roomtune" spreadsheet there day before yesterday, and still no sign of it. Maybe tomorrow. If I can talk my daughter-in-law into it, I'm gonna have her help me with a couple of even "spiffier" functions on the next version.

    Gotta go, plenty to do manana, count all the bees in the hive, hit the ball, drag Fred... Steve
  9. speedracer

    speedracer Guest

    I'm back!

    I've been away survaying all of the component manufacturers of my DAW, and some other stops as well.

    For anyone interested, Wave's and Sonic Foundry have put their seal of approval on the aforementioned dual proc system. The only one who won't get back to me is ECHO. I guess they think they are busy or something. Apparently, if your using vegas audio and running a dual proc PC, the FX processing is shifted to the other processor so you are able to run a shiz-load of plug in's.

    Knitefly, I'm wondering how you tell the CAS designation on RAM? It seems like only a few retailers desigate this on the product specs. Is there some special code you look for in the model number or something?

    OK so here's the system so far

    ASUS A7M266-D mobo
    Dual AMD XP1800 procs
    512 DDR registered lowest cas PC2100 RAM available
    Windows 2000
    Western Digital 40 GB ATA100 7200 RPM (os drive)
    Maxtor 80 GB ATA133 7200 RPM (audio drive)
    Promise ATA133 card
    CD-R's, ROMS floppy ZIP250...ect.

    Now if the price would only go down about $300, life would be perfect.

    I guess I do have one more question about Windows. I've heard that WinXP, and 2k in some ways, makes you register every component on your system before it will work. Essentially making it difficult to upgrade your computer. Is this correct?

  10. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    Hey Speed - Cas level is sometimes left out of the description of a ram chip, sometimes shows up as Cas2, Cas2.5, etc - and sometimes as CL2.5 or cl2, cl3 - It refers to the # of clock cycles it takes to fetch information - This ( I think, not positive yet) is why DDR ram shows up a lot as CL 2.5, because DDR transfers on both edges of a clock pulse, so to a DDR module, cl2.5 (still conjecture here) would be 5 transitions. If this gets too confusing, forget the second part and just get the lowest cas or cl # you can find, un-buffered, un-anything, no parity if MoBo allows, and try to match pin/socket material if info is available (either both tin, or both gold) If you are using 512 MB chips, you may have no choice but to use registered ram - larger chips confuse the "traffic cops" on MoBo's, and require registering, which is a buffering system. The downside of registering, is that it requires an extra clock cycle, but I think it's only one extra cycle per fetch, not per byte (aargghh!)

    I don't remember anything about "product activation" for Win2k, but XP will quit working after 30 days if you don't go to the MicroSlop site and "activate" - From what I hear so far, it sounds worse than it really is - supposedly you can change quite a few things at once and not trigger the re-activation requirement. If you can find MaximumPC magazine, buy this months issue and maybe even subscribe - I get probably 3/4 of the useful 'puter info in my head from my subscription. Way I figure, the only 2 diff's between a good gamer machine and a good audio machine is lower video requirement and higher storage requirements for the audio machine - other than that, a lot of the tips in MaximumPC apply equally well to a DAW. (OK, 3 things - better/more audio stuff...

    Opus, it's "chime-time" again - any "product activation" crap in Win2k? (Plus, feel free to add any other gratuitous gratuities, etc.) - Gotta go, wife should be home from her third job in time to cook my dinner... Steve
  11. speedracer

    speedracer Guest


    Too much stuff to worry about with DAW's: RAM, Mobo, CPU, drives, power supply, cards, slots, OS, cables, bios flash, drivers, entropy.....etc, etc, etc....my head is spinning!@#$%^

    I've been reading the AMD chat page (http://www.amdmb.com - for anyone interested - its actually very informative), and it seems like there are 1.6 trillion little things you have to do to get everything working right.

    All i want is a superfast computer to do one thing - record music! It seems like I'm spending all of my creative time, fixing/upgrading/troubleshooting stuff.


    Anyway - I'm in no mood to post, I'll be back with more postive stuff when I get this all sorted out.

    knitefly thanks for the cas info, I think that RAM is finally starting to make sense to me.

    roger that red leader,
  12. SonOfSmawg

    SonOfSmawg Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2000
    Opus ... give me some help here ... I believe I'd read-up on the UATA133 thing a while back, and found that upgrading to a 133 card and a ATA133 harddrive doesn't actually benefit you unless you're using a RAID configuration. My memory isn't the greatest (I was a teen in the 70's), or I may just be suffering from input overload, but I believe that was the resulting end to my search on the matter. I happened to see the Promise controller on his list and thought it may be unnecessary. Please give us your words of wisdom, OH MIGHTY GURU!
    Oh, and on the "memory thang" ... don't buy the cheap crap. Go to the Crucial site, get the CAS2 memory, and get it over with. If you go to Pricewatch, you may find memory a little cheaper, maybe even on a decent brand, but once you go to the retailers' site and add in their inflated shipping on memory, you won't end up saving much, or you might even pay MORE. Crucial has free shipping!
    And on the AMD thang ... you might want to wait for Opus to post about his new P4 system before you buy. I've been planning my new AMD system for quite a while, but from the information that's been posted here on RO so far, it looks like the new P4s are going to wipe the floor with the AthlonXPs, so I may have to change boats midstream. Opus should have his system up and running in about a week, and you can bet your bippy he'll be on here spewing information like a runaway word processor. AMD has been the best bang for the buck for a long time, but it looks like the tide has turned. I don't know how SET you are on the AMD, but it couldn't hurt to see how Opus fairs with the new P4. There's no shame in getting more puter for less cash.
    OH ... and Opus ... thanx for being the RO guinea pig! I have a sneaking suspicion that you won't be sorry...
  13. Opus2000

    Opus2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2001
    Well, a difference of 33Mhz aint that much in the long run so yeah, you're not gaining much..if you were going from 66 to 133Mhz, then you would see a difference.
    So if you went the Raid option than yes, doubly so since Raid(depending on how you configure it) can be three times faster due to drive reduncancy and so forth. One drive is still one drive but coupled with two drive or more data spanning increases throuput
    Hope that helps..
    Memory is memory...pppbbbblllltttt!!!
    Just kidding...hoping to stir up trouble as usual!!
    I reccomend the same thing as SOS and Steve
  14. speedracer

    speedracer Guest

    I hoping that someone can clear something up for me?

    O.k. you have a let's say for the sake of argument you have a 1.5 GHz processor, and this particlular processor has a front side bus of 266Mhz. Does this mean that the processor will be limited by the 266MHz rate? I guess I'm not seeing what the advantage of having a processor that is faster than the the clock speed of the bus where all the data goes through - can you say bottleneck?

    However, intiutive as this seems in my head right now, I know I must be missing something. Because my Athlon 900Mhz runs faster than my K6-2 450Mhz. Is there something about the L1 and L2 cache that make a difference, or possibly some other "mystery designation" on a CPU that allows the front side bus to not be limiting? It would seem more logical in my mind to have a front bus with the exact same speed as the CPU is operating at.

    Opus or steve, I'm sure you two have a handle on this!
  15. speedracer

    speedracer Guest


    thanks for the heads up on the crucial site! I had no idea you could by RAM direct like that.

    Just to answer your question, the card is merely to increase the number of IDE ports so that each device is not sharing IDE space with another device. I've ran computers with both master/slave configs and computers where each device on its own IDE and things seem to run much more smoothly for the later setup (I'm talking Hard drive(s) CD-R, CD-ROM, ZIP...etc...). The only reason I went with ATA133 is because its a little faster than ATA100, and the cost is not that much more, plus the drive is rated to run at that speed so why not?!

    I'm not sure that raid is for me right now. It would be nice, but I'm almost getting the track count I need with one drive (for OS and audio data), with the dual drive set-up I described, I'm pretty sure my only limitation will be processing power for plug-in's. As far as backing up, I'm finding that CD-R's are a real cost effective solution for the projects I'm doing. If my drive crashes, I've got the data I need. I can't wait until the cost comes down on DVD-R's and disks. Backing up will be a breeze.

    Opus, please tell me about the system your building when you get a chance. I was this close to dropping the cash for the dual athlon system. I'm interested in what you have to say about your P4?

    Also, I keep hearing rumors about AMD coming out with a new line that directly competes with with intel's 0.13 micron process. Is this true?, and if so will AMD rule the world, because their slower clocked chips seem to keep up with the intels of a faster breed, (at least on the benches I've seen).
  16. speedracer

    speedracer Guest


    just read the posts in "get yer P4's." excellent!!!

  17. Kemble

    Kemble Active Member

    Mar 4, 2002
    new guy.....and in the words of the Wicked Witch of the West.....I'm MEeeeeeeLLLLLTTTTTINGGGGGG! Atleast my BRAIN is. So much info. My buddie had convinced me to go AMD. I was more undecided than a fat man in the buffet line. I wish I could GET IT ALL! Is the new P4 info from OPUS on any new P4 1.6 or just w/ that mobo. I have little tweakability in me. So I want simple and stable. My biz gives me access to Win98SE, 2KPro, and XPPro.
    I know its against the rules, but I'd like to...Oh crap...you've beat it out of me...my wife desires...internet access and my son some games on the CPU. Dual boot? Can a one legged man have dual boots? Wouldn't one get wasted?

    See...my brain is melted with too much info.
    Hows this look- XP1700 or P4, Kg7 or...?, 256 Ram...or 512, windows or windows?

    Thanks yall!
  18. knightfly

    knightfly Active Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    Mike - To answer your next-to-last question first, there is no difference between a duck, except that one leg is both the same. (Gawd, a kindred wierdo - we SHALL take over the world, and no one will be safe from sick humor ever again... (fiendish laugh...)

    All seriousness aside,
    if you must consort with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Music must never be denied...
    Oh, OK, I'll let it slide...

    If you decide on Intel P4, find a MoBo with the i845D chipset - supports DDR ram, ATA133, and 8 extra interrupts under WinXP. Also, it doesn't have the "data corruption bug" that's in the i850 chipset. I have yet to hear of an audio card that didn't get along with an Intel chipset. Can't say that about others.

    If you can swing the bux, get a second hard drive (7200 RPM, ATA133, largest you can afford; If you go Maxtor, don't let them sell you one of the Quantum's they now push as Maxtor. IBM 60 GXP, or WD 1200 are other possibilities.) Then buy a copy of Partition Magic, re-partition your primary hard drive and re-install the O.S. on the second partition. I haven't done this in a while, so you'll have to read the help files in Partition Magic after its installed. Install all your music software on the second partition of the primary hard drive, so ONLY YOU can access it. (Kids and custom settings in software are a big no-no) If your kid is older and wants to play too, do a second install on the main (C:) partition, and let him have his own area as part of the "family" machine. Partition your second (audio) drive to 10 GB per partition, 20 at the most. Set up your second (Mr. Hyde) partition on the primary drive with a password for bootup that NOBODY in your family would ever guess. In the hardware profile for the "family" machine, disable the second (audio) hard drive. In the hardware profile for the "music" machine, disable (do NOT remove) the NIC, modem, printer port, anything that is not necessary for music.

    Right now, Win2k is best for a DAW, probably soon to be WinXP as drivers for various hardware become available.

    Ram - 512 mB is about the least you should have for an audio machine. Go to Crucial.com and enter the info for your MoBo - their memory configurator will take you right to the exact part #'s and sell them to you direct. Get the lowest CL# or Cas level they offer, no ECC, no parity, no registered if possible. All these things contribute to processing speed.

    Video - Don't tell the kid this, but wicked game cards don't play nice with audio machines very often. Unfortunately, the dual head Matrox cards most of us want suck at games. If you do get one of the "gamer" cards to satisfy "junior", change the config in your "music machine" to no more than 1280 x 1024, no more than 256 colors. If you keep the colors down, you may not need to play with the "accelleration" slider - some cards don't even use accelleration at that low a color setting. Others may stay out of the audio's way better (less glitches) with the accelleration turned down or off.

    If the Internet access is anything other than "dial up", find out about "firewalls" - Some friends of mine who live in town told me that within 5 minutes of installing Black Ice Defender they were "pinged" by a hacker.

    Sound - If your machine comes with any of the basic sound cards, especially soundblaster or no-name, try to get a second sound card for music, and disable the cheapo in your "music" profile. Also disable the "music" soundcard in the "family" profile. Music soundcards are a thick book all by themselves - try searching DawWorld for "sound card", "audio", ???

    Hope I didn't completely finish "MEeeeeeeLLLLLTTTTTINGGGGGG!" your brain - There's still more ("But Wait! There's More!!")

    When your brain returns to a consistency at least as thick as Velveeta on a cool day, do a search in this forum for DAW, choose "title only", you will find over 30 threads on the subject with a lot of valuable info. (unless this is the reason for the original meltdown - if so, you're screwed) Or, you could just get a porta-studio on Ebay, and make music... Steve
  19. quixzika

    quixzika Guest

    Mike forgot to tell you he IS a kid. Almost 30 and....is it 250#?...but a kid. Uh, like me. I think Mr. Opus's Opus (no Richard Dryfuss here!) on the P4 may be swaying me! Mike and I are SICK of corporate America and just want to make music! All that partitioning stuff you said REALLY helped me too. CONFUSING a bit, but I'll figure it out. Mike and I will both be using- most likely- an M-Audio card. He's got a Audiophile 24/96. I'm gonna get that or a Delta44.
    So may I ask...I'm gonna salvage my MX300 out of my DEAD K6III. ITs got onboard MIDI and is great with 3D games. Can I use the Delta44 for Audio and the Monster MX300's MIDI ability together? Bad idea? Should I just get a MIDIMAN 2x2?
    Mike and I do this hybrid music with digital stuff- Reason, Fruity Loops, Reason; a keyboard in reason using the VST's, live Vocals, and My guitar and bass through a Berhinger 4 channel. So We need a little of..everything. I really just need something SOLID to take digital input from WITHIN the system, and Analog from outside (my fender twin mic'd) and some vocals.) Sounds so SIMPLE! But is it? (!!!Barry Manillo just came on the radio...help me......help......me...)
  20. quixzika

    quixzika Guest

    OH- before the K6 died- I was using the MPU-401 joystick port and a connector cable for MIDI input (using a CRAPPY Yamaha keyboard..but its not as a controller, just form playing the GREAT sound patches in REASON! and sequencing!)


    ...Turn the radio up, up with harmony!
    ...Too the radio up, hear the melody!
    ...Turn the radio up, it'll turn you around!

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