who uses hacked plug-ins?

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XHipHop

Guest
Originally posted by sheet:
Originally posted by XHipHop:
]
Maybe I will come up with a subscription service. Instead of people buying the software that they want, they will rent it. The software companies can charges a license fee, or agrees to take royalties, etc. What do you think?

Or, Would you be willing to pay more upfront for a service charge/policy that locks you into multiple upgrades in the future, gambling on the company's (or your) existance?
Another great post! If i'm not mistaken, now when you liscence Waves products you get a year of upgrades, no?

Hmm...maybe i should go find my OS 9.22 cd and go back...my wallet is getting scared and the music i made "back then" still sounds just as good.
 
X

XHipHop

Guest
Originally posted by sheet:
Originally posted by XHipHop:
]
Maybe I will come up with a subscription service. Instead of people buying the software that they want, they will rent it. The software companies can charges a license fee, or agrees to take royalties, etc. What do you think?

Or, Would you be willing to pay more upfront for a service charge/policy that locks you into multiple upgrades in the future, gambling on the company's (or your) existance?
Another great post! If i'm not mistaken, now when you liscence Waves products you get a year of upgrades, no?

Hmm...maybe i should go find my OS 9.22 cd and go back...my wallet is getting scared and the music i made "back then" still sounds just as good.
 

MisterBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Originally posted by XHipHop:

I'm sorry i made this a hardware vs. software debate. I do LOVE software and use Reason to death. I also just downloaded a slew of FREE audio units (crystal and the ones i posted above) and they made me wonder what we're really paying for here. [/QB]
Don't be sorry. We're just having a little friendly discussion here about an interesting topic, nobody is absolutely right or wrong and you made some valid points. I was not advertising the Lexicon as the holy grail but I think we agree that a lot of people would be interested in a "Lexicon-certified" PCM-91 plug-in for, let's say, $395. I also dare to state that this algorithm would not use more than 5-10% of the resources of a current computer. Not a low number but also not unreasonable for a powerful algorithm. Calculating back to when that unit was released and knowing the status of the semiconductor/ASIC technology at that point the PCM-91 can not possibly have a more powerful engine. The M6000 I can not judge but I am willing to go with your statement that it might eat up the better part of a computers resources in a full-blown version.
Thinking about it - it could alternatively be offered as a TC Powercore algorithm :roll: ... the TC ClassicVerb is IMHO already the best sounding software algorithm out there today, although admittedly not competing with the M6000.

With respect to the freeplug-ins I think you get what you pay for. There are a few rare cases in which people don't understand the value that they have created and give away huge amounts of work and distribute very usable algorithms. Most of them, however, are in the same category as amateur music. Largely mediocre at best, not bad in a few rare cases but also nowhere near any professional quality standards. I personally have given up trying them out as I see it as a waste of my precious time. I'd rather produce music with tools I know will work the way I need them to work.

But then again, if you are happy with freeware algorithms, by all means, please use them over cracked versions of commercial software.

Peace,

MisterBlue.
 

MisterBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Originally posted by XHipHop:

I'm sorry i made this a hardware vs. software debate. I do LOVE software and use Reason to death. I also just downloaded a slew of FREE audio units (crystal and the ones i posted above) and they made me wonder what we're really paying for here. [/QB]
Don't be sorry. We're just having a little friendly discussion here about an interesting topic, nobody is absolutely right or wrong and you made some valid points. I was not advertising the Lexicon as the holy grail but I think we agree that a lot of people would be interested in a "Lexicon-certified" PCM-91 plug-in for, let's say, $395. I also dare to state that this algorithm would not use more than 5-10% of the resources of a current computer. Not a low number but also not unreasonable for a powerful algorithm. Calculating back to when that unit was released and knowing the status of the semiconductor/ASIC technology at that point the PCM-91 can not possibly have a more powerful engine. The M6000 I can not judge but I am willing to go with your statement that it might eat up the better part of a computers resources in a full-blown version.
Thinking about it - it could alternatively be offered as a TC Powercore algorithm :roll: ... the TC ClassicVerb is IMHO already the best sounding software algorithm out there today, although admittedly not competing with the M6000.

With respect to the freeplug-ins I think you get what you pay for. There are a few rare cases in which people don't understand the value that they have created and give away huge amounts of work and distribute very usable algorithms. Most of them, however, are in the same category as amateur music. Largely mediocre at best, not bad in a few rare cases but also nowhere near any professional quality standards. I personally have given up trying them out as I see it as a waste of my precious time. I'd rather produce music with tools I know will work the way I need them to work.

But then again, if you are happy with freeware algorithms, by all means, please use them over cracked versions of commercial software.

Peace,

MisterBlue.
 

MisterBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Originally posted by XHipHop:

I'm sorry i made this a hardware vs. software debate. I do LOVE software and use Reason to death. I also just downloaded a slew of FREE audio units (crystal and the ones i posted above) and they made me wonder what we're really paying for here. [/QB]
Don't be sorry. We're just having a little friendly discussion here about an interesting topic, nobody is absolutely right or wrong and you made some valid points. I was not advertising the Lexicon as the holy grail but I think we agree that a lot of people would be interested in a "Lexicon-certified" PCM-91 plug-in for, let's say, $395. I also dare to state that this algorithm would not use more than 5-10% of the resources of a current computer. Not a low number but also not unreasonable for a powerful algorithm. Calculating back to when that unit was released and knowing the status of the semiconductor/ASIC technology at that point the PCM-91 can not possibly have a more powerful engine. The M6000 I can not judge but I am willing to go with your statement that it might eat up the better part of a computers resources in a full-blown version.
Thinking about it - it could alternatively be offered as a TC Powercore algorithm :roll: ... the TC ClassicVerb is IMHO already the best sounding software algorithm out there today, although admittedly not competing with the M6000.

With respect to the freeplug-ins I think you get what you pay for. There are a few rare cases in which people don't understand the value that they have created and give away huge amounts of work and distribute very usable algorithms. Most of them, however, are in the same category as amateur music. Largely mediocre at best, not bad in a few rare cases but also nowhere near any professional quality standards. I personally have given up trying them out as I see it as a waste of my precious time. I'd rather produce music with tools I know will work the way I need them to work.

But then again, if you are happy with freeware algorithms, by all means, please use them over cracked versions of commercial software.

Peace,

MisterBlue.
 

ajazzie

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I am against all the hacked and cracked stuff out there, however in saying that I can definatley see the temptation.

I vividley hate the fact that Digidesign, Apple and Emagic control your destiny with continual upgrading, careful selections that you must have "A" to get "B" and so on. A good example is the Digidesign Ptools 6, not compatible with OS 9, want the new features you gotta get the upgrade, but wait, you need OSX, then you need to remember that apple force you that way as they wont produce OS9 anyhow...hmm the plugs to run in X have to have more grunt so get your wallet out again. Want more tracks or a function so basic freeware can be obtained if you look hard enough, again get out your wallet, if it says Digidesign on it be prepared to research your product to ensure you get basic features you should get are even there.

Q: Who has the money to stay on this train
Q: Where do you get the money, I am in a great job but in the audio industry its never $100 bucks, By the time it comes to Australia we are always talking Thousands!

Last question: we have had some seriously great recordings in the past on gear that does it well, how much is necessary and where do you draw the line and say, I am happy with this? You cant anymore.

So when buying outboard gear , which is my main vice, you get something you dont have to wory about not being supported or paying to upgrade it twice a year, then having to chuck it out with the new OS not supporting it, dont wory, you can buy a new one as i am sure the next model is just around the corner.

at least when cracked plugs hit the net, although I dont use them and wont by ethics, you cant deny the arguement for the poor little bloke on $10 per hour trying a plug that will be obselete in 6 months time anyhow.

Ok, nuff said, I am a lunatic, just a bit concerned about the trend this Digital world is going on..

Peace to all.
AJ
 

ajazzie

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I am against all the hacked and cracked stuff out there, however in saying that I can definatley see the temptation.

I vividley hate the fact that Digidesign, Apple and Emagic control your destiny with continual upgrading, careful selections that you must have "A" to get "B" and so on. A good example is the Digidesign Ptools 6, not compatible with OS 9, want the new features you gotta get the upgrade, but wait, you need OSX, then you need to remember that apple force you that way as they wont produce OS9 anyhow...hmm the plugs to run in X have to have more grunt so get your wallet out again. Want more tracks or a function so basic freeware can be obtained if you look hard enough, again get out your wallet, if it says Digidesign on it be prepared to research your product to ensure you get basic features you should get are even there.

Q: Who has the money to stay on this train
Q: Where do you get the money, I am in a great job but in the audio industry its never $100 bucks, By the time it comes to Australia we are always talking Thousands!

Last question: we have had some seriously great recordings in the past on gear that does it well, how much is necessary and where do you draw the line and say, I am happy with this? You cant anymore.

So when buying outboard gear , which is my main vice, you get something you dont have to wory about not being supported or paying to upgrade it twice a year, then having to chuck it out with the new OS not supporting it, dont wory, you can buy a new one as i am sure the next model is just around the corner.

at least when cracked plugs hit the net, although I dont use them and wont by ethics, you cant deny the arguement for the poor little bloke on $10 per hour trying a plug that will be obselete in 6 months time anyhow.

Ok, nuff said, I am a lunatic, just a bit concerned about the trend this Digital world is going on..

Peace to all.
AJ
 

ajazzie

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I am against all the hacked and cracked stuff out there, however in saying that I can definatley see the temptation.

I vividley hate the fact that Digidesign, Apple and Emagic control your destiny with continual upgrading, careful selections that you must have "A" to get "B" and so on. A good example is the Digidesign Ptools 6, not compatible with OS 9, want the new features you gotta get the upgrade, but wait, you need OSX, then you need to remember that apple force you that way as they wont produce OS9 anyhow...hmm the plugs to run in X have to have more grunt so get your wallet out again. Want more tracks or a function so basic freeware can be obtained if you look hard enough, again get out your wallet, if it says Digidesign on it be prepared to research your product to ensure you get basic features you should get are even there.

Q: Who has the money to stay on this train
Q: Where do you get the money, I am in a great job but in the audio industry its never $100 bucks, By the time it comes to Australia we are always talking Thousands!

Last question: we have had some seriously great recordings in the past on gear that does it well, how much is necessary and where do you draw the line and say, I am happy with this? You cant anymore.

So when buying outboard gear , which is my main vice, you get something you dont have to wory about not being supported or paying to upgrade it twice a year, then having to chuck it out with the new OS not supporting it, dont wory, you can buy a new one as i am sure the next model is just around the corner.

at least when cracked plugs hit the net, although I dont use them and wont by ethics, you cant deny the arguement for the poor little bloke on $10 per hour trying a plug that will be obselete in 6 months time anyhow.

Ok, nuff said, I am a lunatic, just a bit concerned about the trend this Digital world is going on..

Peace to all.
AJ
 

anonymous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Its pretty simple....

You know the deal with software upgrades/costs. If someone doesnt want to pay the amount of money required to own theseplug-insthen they have the choice of not using the desired platform or plug-in....unfortunately the cracked plug-in debate will never end....Its no different than the 14 year old who justifies downloading a cracked copy of autocad or maya by saying they "could/would never afford a legit copy soo are they really stealing"..

I admit that it is very frustrating when you have to deal with new releases and new os's. For some this costs money, for me I choose to not jump on the "band wagon" I usualy will use what works and wait things out for a year or so. In most cases this doesnt cause the loss of clients. I still can remember how soo many jumped on the PT HD wagon (the day the system was released) a week later there was nothing but pissin and moaning over no plug-in availability.

Again in this business like any other and well very much like anything else in life there are pro's and con's, you have to weigh out the benefits and consiquinces and make a logical yet smart decision.

In usingplug-insyou may have the luxury of using the selected plug-in on multiple tracks as opposed to one hardware 1176 that can only go on one channel. however the con to that luxury is that you have to deal with the constant software upgrades etc....

If you look at the number of people involved in the development of this software all the way down the packaging/distribution. it simply costs money. Its funny but you run into similar things in the studio (why cant you spot me one more hour....its only one more hour, you didnt have the room booked anyhow) the client not understanding that one more hour of tape passing over the studer costs money, the power bill needs to be paid and all of the gear will simply be used 1 hour more with wear and tear....

If you dont want to deal with upgrades/costs of software you have a few choices....

1. Steal a cracked version
2. Dont use the plug-in and buy the hardware version that will cost ALOT more!
3. Let a studio pick up the costs and book the room.

long live analog! :D
 

anonymous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Its pretty simple....

You know the deal with software upgrades/costs. If someone doesnt want to pay the amount of money required to own theseplug-insthen they have the choice of not using the desired platform or plug-in....unfortunately the cracked plug-in debate will never end....Its no different than the 14 year old who justifies downloading a cracked copy of autocad or maya by saying they "could/would never afford a legit copy soo are they really stealing"..

I admit that it is very frustrating when you have to deal with new releases and new os's. For some this costs money, for me I choose to not jump on the "band wagon" I usualy will use what works and wait things out for a year or so. In most cases this doesnt cause the loss of clients. I still can remember how soo many jumped on the PT HD wagon (the day the system was released) a week later there was nothing but pissin and moaning over no plug-in availability.

Again in this business like any other and well very much like anything else in life there are pro's and con's, you have to weigh out the benefits and consiquinces and make a logical yet smart decision.

In usingplug-insyou may have the luxury of using the selected plug-in on multiple tracks as opposed to one hardware 1176 that can only go on one channel. however the con to that luxury is that you have to deal with the constant software upgrades etc....

If you look at the number of people involved in the development of this software all the way down the packaging/distribution. it simply costs money. Its funny but you run into similar things in the studio (why cant you spot me one more hour....its only one more hour, you didnt have the room booked anyhow) the client not understanding that one more hour of tape passing over the studer costs money, the power bill needs to be paid and all of the gear will simply be used 1 hour more with wear and tear....

If you dont want to deal with upgrades/costs of software you have a few choices....

1. Steal a cracked version
2. Dont use the plug-in and buy the hardware version that will cost ALOT more!
3. Let a studio pick up the costs and book the room.

long live analog! :D
 

anonymous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2001
Its pretty simple....

You know the deal with software upgrades/costs. If someone doesnt want to pay the amount of money required to own theseplug-insthen they have the choice of not using the desired platform or plug-in....unfortunately the cracked plug-in debate will never end....Its no different than the 14 year old who justifies downloading a cracked copy of autocad or maya by saying they "could/would never afford a legit copy soo are they really stealing"..

I admit that it is very frustrating when you have to deal with new releases and new os's. For some this costs money, for me I choose to not jump on the "band wagon" I usualy will use what works and wait things out for a year or so. In most cases this doesnt cause the loss of clients. I still can remember how soo many jumped on the PT HD wagon (the day the system was released) a week later there was nothing but pissin and moaning over no plug-in availability.

Again in this business like any other and well very much like anything else in life there are pro's and con's, you have to weigh out the benefits and consiquinces and make a logical yet smart decision.

In usingplug-insyou may have the luxury of using the selected plug-in on multiple tracks as opposed to one hardware 1176 that can only go on one channel. however the con to that luxury is that you have to deal with the constant software upgrades etc....

If you look at the number of people involved in the development of this software all the way down the packaging/distribution. it simply costs money. Its funny but you run into similar things in the studio (why cant you spot me one more hour....its only one more hour, you didnt have the room booked anyhow) the client not understanding that one more hour of tape passing over the studer costs money, the power bill needs to be paid and all of the gear will simply be used 1 hour more with wear and tear....

If you dont want to deal with upgrades/costs of software you have a few choices....

1. Steal a cracked version
2. Dont use the plug-in and buy the hardware version that will cost ALOT more!
3. Let a studio pick up the costs and book the room.

long live analog! :D
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
Originally posted by Rick Hammang:
:) Doesn't the original post seem a bit odd to anyone? :D

--Rick
No doubt Rick! Threads like this are created for one purpose only, to troll for kaos. We all know what's right and wrong. This thread is both wrong in principle and in suggestion. It was created to see what would happen and how much response they would muster up from our members. Since it was aboutplug-insit should have been started in the plug-in forum as well. Let's close this bag of worms and move on to brighter topics.

[ August 25, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: RecorderMan ]
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
Originally posted by Rick Hammang:
:) Doesn't the original post seem a bit odd to anyone? :D

--Rick
No doubt Rick! Threads like this are created for one purpose only, to troll for kaos. We all know what's right and wrong. This thread is both wrong in principle and in suggestion. It was created to see what would happen and how much response they would muster up from our members. Since it was aboutplug-insit should have been started in the plug-in forum as well. Let's close this bag of worms and move on to brighter topics.

[ August 25, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: RecorderMan ]
 

audiokid

Chris
Moderator
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
Location
Nanaimo BC, Canada
Originally posted by Rick Hammang:
:) Doesn't the original post seem a bit odd to anyone? :D

--Rick
No doubt Rick! Threads like this are created for one purpose only, to troll for kaos. We all know what's right and wrong. This thread is both wrong in principle and in suggestion. It was created to see what would happen and how much response they would muster up from our members. Since it was aboutplug-insit should have been started in the plug-in forum as well. Let's close this bag of worms and move on to brighter topics.

[ August 25, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: RecorderMan ]
 
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