why did she squirt mustard on protools

Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by radioliver, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. radioliver

    radioliver Guest

    the title is only to attract people....
    Now PT users, give me the "REAL" advantages of the system. Please convince me that I should go the protools way. I am one of them anti-protools people but I want to be convinced. And also, audiokid said in the poll on DAWs that protools should not be compared to those budget nuendo studios...anyways, the point of the thread is to convince me! Now go on PT people. :lol:
  2. ghellquist

    ghellquist Member

    May 25, 2004
    there is absolutely no reason at all to go with ProTools. Unless you will use it for something. So do not ask this kind of questions. Unless of course you first tell us what you think you want to do. If all you want to do is to calculate you finances, I think Microsoft Excel is a much better alternative.

    Sorry, but I was taught not to use a hammer to put screws into place.

  3. dabmeister music

    dabmeister music Active Member

    Jan 11, 2003
    Woodbridge, Va
    Home Page:
    Hey, someone may want to explain to you what a TROLL is and what they do. You maybe border lining that.
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    I think it's a valid question / post ... not toll like in the least .. but then, I'm coming from the same place radioliver is .. is there some dirty little secret to hide, that causes eveyone to be so worried that the topic might be disscussed?

    So without me bashing PT, tell me what is so much better about it? Why shouldn't protools be compared to those budget nuendo studios? (budget ??? last time I looked, Nuendo was pretty expensive) ...
  5. dabmeister music

    dabmeister music Active Member

    Jan 11, 2003
    Woodbridge, Va
    Home Page:
    My bad...just checking. :oops:
  6. KTek

    KTek Guest

    engineering philosophy: "you can paint the same mural with many different brushes; from far off, you'd never know the difference, nor prefer one over another."

    I'd say that any platform that allows you enough tracks, a high enough bit rate/resolution, plugins, etc. is ganna get the job done.

    it's more or less ganna be your recording/mic'ing and mic's used/pre-amps/mixer/outboard gear/and biggest of all..EXPERIENCE!!!!!!

    man i can honestly say that as an engineer, compared to the big time pro's,,, I SUCK!!! that doesn't mean i'm incapable of recording and mixing a good sounding album, it just means that i'm still learning, and developing my routine that works best for me, so that i can start doing ONLY what works, and NOT waste time with things that sound bad.

    here's a few things to think about:

    NIN, Marilyn Manson, Linkin Park, most rap/hip-hop artists, used pro-tools.

    However, A Perfect Circle, Skinny Puppy, and a lot of industrial artists used logic.

    DRUM AND BASS!!!! if you're familiar with it, the trend seems to be Cubase. (although me and my crew use logic)

    when i looked in the musician's paper in nasheville, all the studio's used pro-tools.


    although pro-tools is the leader in most "BIG TIME" studios, it's not doing anything special that makes the records sell over non-protools production.

    hope you don't spend money on anything you don't need.
  7. radioliver

    radioliver Guest

    Well up to now, I'm not convinced to pay 5000 to 10000$ more for protools. Come on! Your supposed to convince me. All I heard right now is that it is another alternative. I don't like more expensive alternatives unless they have advantages...so please speak out loud you protools lovers!
  8. Duardo

    Duardo Guest

    I wouldn't quite consider myself a "Pro Tools lover", but the reason it costs so much more is because you're basically buying a digital mixer and effects processor that goes inside of your computer when you buy a Pro Tools system. It gives you more power than any native system (because you still have the native power of the computer as well) and if you run out of processing power you can just add more cards. The better plugins are also much better than any native plugin, again because when they code the plugins they don't have to worry so much about making them DSP efficient because the know what they'll be dealing with in terms of processing power. I imagine that's why audiokid said it shouldn't necessarily be compared to a "budget Nuendo studio" (although as Kurt mentioned, Nuendo is a fairly expensive software program, so I imagine most "budget" Nuendo studios are likely using cracked software...

    But if you don't need all that power, and don't need to be compatible with other Pro Tools users, and don't want to spend the extra money, then don't...from a software perspective, what's "better" is really more a matter of personal taste than anything.

  9. Mumbles

    Mumbles Active Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    Upstate NY
    I think that Pro Tools is the Kleenex of the recording industry.
    Name recognition, in other words.
    I f I say, "Hand me a Kleenex," and you hand me the white label tissue... I'll probably blow my nose and not even know the difference.
    At this point, I think that most musicians look for Pro Tools because it's what they've heard about.

    So I would say...screw the Mac/PC crap and get a RADAR. :wink:
  10. Radar - Yeah, I've seen more and more frequently. Everyone I've talked to about the system says it sounds less digital and more like tape, but it's still a hard disk based system. Any opinions?
  11. dustbro

    dustbro Guest

    Although I love my kick ass nuendo rig, I use Protools for about 90% of the work that I do. There are 2 reasons to stick with it.
    #1 - you want to be compatible. Everybody uses it, so if you get a project from another studio, it's probably going to be protools.
    #2 - It's a rock solid system! (and I'm not talking about the native LE system... this is HTDM only)

    Protools LE is pretty much a pile of $*^t... stick with the TDM and HTDM systems.

    OK... now that I said the only 2 reasons why you would want to go with Protools, here are the things that you will be missing with a budget program like Nuendo (Oh... by the way. Did I mention that my Breaking Benjamin record that I did mostly in Nuendo just went Gold? :wink: )

    - Phase reverse switch on every channel (uh... come on Digi!)
    - automatic plug-in delay compensation in the entire signal path
    - Assignable key commands
    - 32 Bit float internal processing (24 bit fixed point processing sounds like... well Digi)
    - Faster than real time mixdown
    - multiple shuttling speeds from the transport
    - Archive and backup features right from the audio pool
    - Advanced crossfade editor
    - unlimited undo/redo with EDIT HISTORY!! (this rules)
    - Folder tracks (boy does my PT session look cluttered)
    - UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF AUDIO TRACKS!!! (no "voice" limits like in PTHD)
    - COPY / SAVE / OR LOAD CHANNEL SETTINGS! (hello, this makes mixing much easier)
    - peer to peer collaboration with tcp/ip (multiple people can be working on the same project at one time. Just hit the "update" button for you session to reflect the other persons edits or additional tracks)
    - Last, but not least, USER DEFINABLE MACROS

    The list goes on and on and on... but it just goes to show that PT wont be top dog for long.
  12. Marcus Black

    Marcus Black Guest

    I don´t think you´ll need PT for anything else than if you have a lot of people requesting it or if that´s the software you wanna use (the hardware choices get pretty limited in digi-land). You will get the same (or better) quality if you spend on good AD/DA converters and a quality wordclock. Then if it´s Nuendo, DP, Cubase or Logic is just a matter of which environment you wanna work in. When it comes to processing power you´ll get a long way by adding a TC Powercore and a UAD-1. The powercore is very similar to the digi-core-cards and that´s why you find an increasing number of 3rd party plug-ins for it, they are pretty easy to convert to powercore once they are made for TDM. That´s the future I think, dsp-cards for native systems. Cards that will run any vst/AU plug-in. Once they are out there, digi is dead. Save your money, go native. That way you can upgrade your system piece by piece instead of bying a new $15000 digi-core-system every third year. The future is native, if they can send a man to the moon they can build dsp-cards for native systems that can run any plug-in.
  13. Mumbles

    Mumbles Active Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    Upstate NY
    Yes, Radar is a disk based system... and there are no plugins, so it's probably not what you're looking for. I would just prefer to work on a machine that wasn't built for web surfing... but that's just me. I don't even own one yet anyway... I'm just lusting and hate my computer.

    I agree, that Pro Tools will not be top dog for long.
  14. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    Whittier, California, USA
    Hey, you can get an used dual 1 GB mac for under 1K, Digital Performer for $500 new and a used motu 828 for under $500 or a new one for $700- So for around $2k or less you can get the best (IMHO) - unlimited tracks, good plugins- the works!

    Now realistically you could get around 40 to 50 quality tracks with plugins with that set up... need I say more?
  15. Extasy Jones

    Extasy Jones Guest

    Utimately, this is a loaded question cuz it's very much personal preference. What makes you comfortable. I think ProTools has a great package, however, I do most of my work with Nuendo. Nuendo seems to emulate the analog environment I grew up with. Total personal opininion but, who cares. My work station is my work station.
    Like shoes, a lable has never made me feel comfortable. And you may not feel comfortable in my shoes.
  16. Duardo

    Duardo Guest

    Don't they have that now?

    Pro Tools LE runs at 32-bit float. HD is 48-bit fixed.

    Is 192 tracks really not enough? And just because your software doen't limit how many audio tracks you can have doesn't mean that you actually have unlimited tracks.

    If you're running on a DSP card, then it's really not a native system any more, is it?

  17. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    I find dustbros comments to be very revealing ... considering he is about as "entrenched" into the pro scene as anyone could be. Thanks for the insight dustbro ...
  18. radioliver

    radioliver Guest

    Ok well I have a q10 with a really powerful PC running Nuendo (3.2 Ghz 1gig RAM) and that cost me 4000 CND$. Thats 3000U$. Unlimited tracks and seriously, I think I can go unlimited, it never lags with 35 tracks full of plugins. My system is as stable as it can be. Pc loads in 5 secs. and never crashes. I do not see protools working for me, but I do understand why someone a bit snobbish would want it...I really don't get the advantage of the compatbility thing...The point of a studio is to be self sufficient in your recording needs. Anyways, that's the way I see it. If you want Big studio sound quality, don't spend your money on a home studio, keep the money for the big studio.

    PS. Kurt, your signature is a bit depressing...cheer up!
  19. Someday

    Someday Guest

    I don't remember advantages of PT, but i remember flaws:
    No freeze, only 2-4 convolution reverbs
    No TDM samplers: it's impossible to play a soft instruments orchestra in real time (shame on digi).
    No soft instrument integration: you have to create 3 different tracks to record a soft instrument.
    The summing is 48 bit, but the paths are 24 bit, and the sound is muffled.
    The MIDI features are less than those found in the '80 sequencers
    The marketing forces you to spend 15K$ every year.

    I switched to Logic because (depending on disk speed) i can run virtually any number of soft instruments and convolution reverbs, thanks freeze.
    The sound quality is enormous, with 32bit floating fron IN to OUT.
    Perfect soft synths integration.
    Great editing features, automation features and GUI.
  20. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    It's liberating ... :D All's good! Happy!, Happy!, Joy!, Joy! .....

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