Why RTAS sounds worst than TDM

Discussion in 'Mixing & Song Critique' started by Thiago Monteiro, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. Hi

    Last week I've opened in a PT LE,
    a session of a project that I've started in my PT Mix+.

    Wow. What a surprise.
    The Focusrite D2 RTAS sounds totally different than TDM version.
    With the same equalization, exactly.

    And I was really disappointed on Bass Drum, that normally is a track
    with plenty of equalization. Sounds a lot bad!

    My question is:

    This difference was because of TDM->RTAS change or PT TDM->PT LE change ??

    Cause when I open a plugin RTAS with the PT Mix+, the sound difference is minimal...

    Then, can I trust really in Digidesign LE products ??

    Waiting for your opinion...

    Best Regards
  2. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    Was this an entirely different system you switched it to? If so, it could be different monitors, and lots of other things.
  3. No, impossible.

    I've bought this 'LE system' and a 2.4ghz PC for use with Rewire tools, like Reason, Sample Tank, etc, because my TDM system runs in a G3 Mac (B&W) that not supports OS X and PT 6 to run Rewire instruments.

    So, I´m really disappointed.

    I've bounced one same project in both systems: LE and TDM, using the same plug-ins (just D2, LA2A, Pultec, 1176, and digirack deesser) and I´m sorry but the LE sounds poor...

    TDM sounds a lot better... There is a 'PRO' character that LE don't have.

    There is some explanation ?
  4. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    So did you answer mccheese's question? Are you comparing these two with the same monitors in the same room or are you mixing something with your tdm at a real studio then taking it home to LE. If that is the case then that could be a big reason why you don't think they sound as good.
  5. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    I smell a "I was working with some big dual 15" monitors and the kick was amazing! Then I took it home and worked on my Roland MicroCrap mini-monitors it just sounded like ass, therefore I need to spend $10k on software to make it sound right" kinda thing coming.
  6. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    Feb 9, 2004
    or could it just be a difference in sound on the two systems ? :shock:

    PT TDM is fixed point calculation LE is floating point
  7. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    no..there is no jaw dropping difference between the TDM and RTAS versions of plugs.
  8. Well, before I would like to say that I was hoping to keep the discussion in a professional level ok.

    You aren't speaking with some sucker.

    If I told 'Impossible', is because that's 'Impossible'.

    Of course that I've used the same monitors at the same mixroom.
    I'm not a stupid to make comparisons using big dual 15" and after Roland MicroCrap mini-monitors.

    Please, where are the pros in this forum ??
  9. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    pro here 8)
  10. Yes

    Recorder Man, in you I know that I can trust...

    I would like so much to read the Kurt's opinion, too...

  11. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    Feb 9, 2004
    pro here too.....

    i hope you didn't understand my remark as irony.... it wasn't

    i firmly believe.... no.... i know that tdm sounds different from le....

    as nuendo sounds different than pt tdm on the same converter playing the same soundfile !!!!

    i've listened carefully to alot of systems.... and they all sound different....

    just as the hardware version of a waves L2 sound different than the software.....

    but be careful...... there's alot of techheads out there that will tell you otherwise.....

    so trust your ears and do careful testing..... if in doubt do it as blindtesting..... but beware.... blind testing can be misleading

    good luck
  12. Hi, iznogood.

    Yes, I've understood what you said !

    My problem was with Mr. "McCheese".
    He was not cool, was ??

    Someone that write what he wrote, can't be a pro... I'm sorry.

    Never never Kurt, Dave or David (for example) would be able to write with this form... With disrespect...

    You're cool

  13. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    How does asking an honest question make me "not pro?"

    Your answer to "Is it different monitoring" was "It's impossible". That's not much of an answer, and a wrong one at that. Given the information you gave us, it's highly possible that you were using a different system. In fact, you said you're running it on a different system right here:

    So my assumption was based on the information given (that you were, in fact, running a different system) and experiences I've had before with similar questions, that turned out to be exactly what I mentioned there. You didn't even really answer my question in the first place. So don't go getting your panties in a knot just because you're not providing any useful information.

    I'm sorry I offended you, but if you poke around, you'll see we get our fair share of asshats here asking stupid useless questions, like "Can someone give me their Reason registration code" or "Which $5 preamp sounds just like a Neve".

    As for "pro", well, I've been doing this long enough to become as jaded as I am. And yeah, I make money from it too.

    Oh, and one more thing. I prefer to be called 'Sir' McCheese ;)
  14. Please, I want to talk just with the pros (or cool, intelligent people). Not you.

    Go with your toys.
  15. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Hey Thiago instead of being bitchy and complaining about how unprofessional someone is why don't you offer up a little more information to begin with. If you want an accurate answer you should post a complete question. You never once mentioned it was in the same studio, you just said you opened up a mix session into le and the focusrite plug in didn't sound the same. Then when you answer his first response you just say "impossible" not "yes it was in the same studio" just "impossible". And no LE won't sound like your Mix system because LE isn't a pro set up so posting this was really just a waste of time, if LE was supposed to sound exactly like TDM then everyone would save themselves 30 grand and buy an mbox. If you don't like what Sir McCheese had to say then maybe you should attempt to answer his initial response correctly instead of being so vague.
  16. Dear,

    He says: "it could be different monitors, and lots of other things."

    My reply: "No, impossible"

    Understand this:
    If I said impossible, is because is impossible the reason be different monitors.
    Is difficult to understand this ??

    hmmm, just use a little bit of intelligence.

    But OK !! If my reply was so incomprehensible, ok !
    I until was replying your post
    You (johnnyc) was OK and wrote with good upbringing.

    He (McCheese) was stupid, indelicate.

    Please, just read this !!!

    And you want that I stay quiet ?
  17. McCheese

    McCheese Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2005
    Yes, it is difficult to understand that. That isn't a coherent sentence.

    Stupid and indelicate? This coming from the same person who said "You was OK and wrote with good upbringing." which tells me that your limited grasp of the english language means you probably don't even understand half of what is being said here.

    As for reacting to my comment, yeah, stay quiet. Or better yet say something like "No, I was not using different monitors".

    I'd expect the same reaction if I made a half-assed attempt to communicate in broken Portuguese in a Brazilian forum, then gone and insulted people that tried to clarify the problem for me.

    I've seen 14 year olds talking like they're on AOL that make more sense. OMGWTF!!!1111eleventy!!12!
  18. Yes, my english is bad, but I can understand each word that you write

    Excuse me but it's a very logical sentence to me

    If is impossible that different monitors be the problem, of course that I've used THE SAME MONITORS TO MAKE THE COMPARISON !!!!

    Sometimes, one term in portuguese don't have perfect translation in english, but of course you don't know this... I'ld explain you this, if you just tell me.

    But you prefer to insinuate (or suggest ?) that I'm some sucker to compare one bass drum in a big dual 15" monitors with a
    Roland MicroCrap mini-monitors and to think that I need to spend $10k on software to make it sound right.

    No more words to spend with you

    Best regards
  19. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    ooo .... this is fun

    I had SoundTools - Digidesign's first editor
    I have had TDM since 4.0 Mix Plus
    I currently have 2 001 systems and 3 AMIII systems.

    The Mix+ systems was upgraded to HD3 last year.
    I have the 96 I/O.

    These are ALL my home toys and just for fun
    In my work life I deal with the AMS Logic 3 editor system.

    What is a professional ?

    The basic difference between TDM and LE is not as great as people may have you believe.
    some plugs are very different
    the converters in the different I/O devices are very different

    Simple mix and volume edits on both systems are so close that it is not easy and near impossible to prove ANY differences.
    The typical tests are based around Sum/Null test techniques.

    Let your ears judge ... I do
    and I use test equipment ... both digital and analog.

    shut up Kev
    I'll go away now
  20. voidar

    voidar Guest

    If I am not mistanken, RTAS is native 32 bit float while TDM uses the proper 48 bit fixed Pro Tools format.

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