with only 2 good pres. Where to use them on drums?

Discussion in 'Drums' started by burn000, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. burn000

    burn000 Guest

    If I have only 2 channels of good pres (Neve 5012) and a bunch of generic pres (Tascam M-2600 board)...

    on a drum recording, which drum mics should I put with the Neve? Room mic? snare? kick? wondering...
  2. Lonewalker

    Lonewalker Active Member

    Aug 1, 2005
    What kind of music?? You may benefit better from using those on kick and snare, if the songs needs it. I use my better pres for the main drums since I don't need a really detailed OH image usually. Try it all out and see what works.
  3. Markd102

    Markd102 Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2001
    Deffinately overheads for me.
  4. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Tacoma, WA

  5. 7XL

    7XL Guest

    Snare and kick.

    If you are using a 3 mic technique, which I do from time to time, you can always EQ or process the overheads to achieve any sound that you want, even more so if you haqve a convolution program or Mic Modeler.

    If you have a killer snare and kick sound you can always make thing "work around" them.

    Remember, most of the great sounding Led Zep drum tracks were recorded use 3 mics.

    Just my opinion, don't hate me for it, I can give you many more reasons to do that.
  6. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    Welcome 7XL! :D

    I see this is your first post here on RO.

    In that case please excuse the following:


    This is one of my biggest pet peaves! The concept of:

    "Do what you want to the recording and fix it in the mix..."

    I know that's not exactly what you said, so please pardon my paraphrasing. However, I obviously feel VERY strongly that the best and only solution is to get the sound you want with your mic and its placement and your preamp choice and use.

    If you need to EQ, do it for the right reasons - ie. cutting resonances, adding a little sparkle, boosting thin bass, cutting overly fat bass (again, most of this can be done with mic placement or choice).

    Please do not feel that it's okay to track something one way even if it sounds weak or wierd and that you can "fix it in the mix..." This will weaken you as an engineer.

    Sorry - I have to rant from time to time...

    J. :cool:
  7. 7XL

    7XL Guest


    I did not mean "fix it in the mix", I don't ascribe to that philosphy myself.

    But when given "limited" resources I find that the kick and the snare are the most important part of many drum recordings.

    I refuse to record anything that doesn't sound "correct" to my ears.

    Given the amount of processing power that we have available at our finger tips, you can track, in real time, using a convoltion program or mic modeling app much like you would with an outboard preamp.

    I do agree that the best solution is to have 16 channels of high end mic pre's at your disposal, but many people do not have the same resources that I do. So in the situation that was described above , I feel that is the best solution.

    As I stated above, this is my opinion, don't hate me for it, I'll be sure to give you a reason for that in the near future.

    Also in case you have not noticed, I've been lurking here for quite a while, I finally felt like offering somebody some assistance.
  8. Zilla

    Zilla Active Member

    Mar 29, 2005
    WY / CA
    Home Page:
    For most pop/rock style music I would agree with 7XL, the Kick and Snare are the more important element of the drum kit. But for Jazz it would be the overheads.

    But this is hardly an issue to debate over. With multitracking, you can record the kick/snare first, then overdub the overheads later. This allows one to use good pre's on everything (even thought you only have two), plus better instrument isolation for a cleaner sound.
  9. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Mar 8, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    That's cool. I didn't mean to offend. I just feel radically different about the subject.

    While I agree that the kick and the snare are important, I also know that the majority, if not the entire kit can be picked up well from 2 overhead mics and 1 kick mic (different than the three mic technique to which you refer, but both good for their own reasons.)

    I agree that not everyone is so fortunate as to have a rack load of pres, but given the resolution necessary to capture cymbals and toms, I recommend to emphasize these channels more than any others.

    My $.02

  10. 43hertz

    43hertz Guest

    Almost always kick and snare.
  11. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    I think it depends totally on what you are going for. If your goal is to get the majority of your kit through two overheads, I'd use it on them. If you plan on close micing everything and using overheads for "cymbal mics", then I'd use them on the kick and snare.

    Personally, I prefer to get most of the picture of my kit from the overheads and use my other mics only if I need to bring an indivual drum out more. Therefore, I use my best stuff and spend the most time on the overheads. My 2 cents.

  12. rudedogg

    rudedogg Guest

    for rock music i would generally say kick and snare. the oh's can be captured with just decent pre's and mics.

    now how about another question. if you had 2 neve pres and 2 api pres which would you use on what for recording drums?
  13. o2x

    o2x Active Member

    Mar 17, 2005
    Overheads for me.
  14. Reggie

    Reggie Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2004
    I'm with you man, for the most part. As long as your overhead mics are good, you can get away with something like a DMP3. Most people are going to say I am wrong though.

    I'm about to find this out for myself tomorrow (SCA clones). My first guess is Neve kick and snare, overheads API. But I will be trying J99's for overheads, N72's for kick/snare, and A12's for toms. Probably try swapping the N72s and A12s.
  15. rudedogg

    rudedogg Guest

    i got my n72s 2 days ago, i just haven't had time to build them. the a12's took me about 3 hours for the first one, and 1.5 hours for the 2nd. hopefully the n72s will go faster.

    what i need is time! i got 2 gigs for my band tonight 8pm and 11pm, and then i have to record some friends all day saturday and another session on sunday.

    let me know how the N72s sound on drums!


    ps. sorry to hijack the thread. now back to: "why everyone except steve and reggie think you should use your best pres on overheads"
  16. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    I will put my unneeded two cents worth in. I know how that TASCAM M2600 console sounds. Put your cheap microphones (hopefully SM57s or equivalent) through the TASCAM, for bass and snare drum. You may want to turn on the pad and run your preamp gain higher, for better head room. Plus, with the preamp running a higher gain and lower negative feedback, it will produce a more open sound.

    Put your best 2 microphones on the Neve preamps. Do not run them more than 3 feet above the kit, for greatest drum + cymbal combined coverage and articulation.
  17. o2x

    o2x Active Member

    Mar 17, 2005
    Now i'd go the other way round - I think a 57 sounds great through an API.
  18. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Dec 10, 2001
    Pacific NW
    A very good question.

    Lots of differing views too.

    While I'm certainly not an expert......ok, I'm kind of an expert.....

    I do get good drums.........

    Here's my take. Either method will work. It is ENTIRELY dependant on the drummer, his style of playing, his kit, the tuning of it, the drum area aka: 'environment'.......see, nothings really easy ....except my last wife....errr.....where was I....

    Ok. A drummer who plays a 'backbeat'....uhh...kinda drags the beat a touch....accents off of the basic trap....This is the guy you want the good stuff on the kick and snare.

    The 'Etheral' guy whos always pawing the cymbals and has a delicate touch on the toms and wont stay the hell off of em for over a measure or two....this guy gets the overheads.

    For what its worth....A rock oriented song, which has most of its emphasis on the thud and crush will need the kick and snare to be as high end as possible.

    Jazz songwise, overs......
  19. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    You Have an API and a Neve? I have the same! No? Aww, it's all bitchin'! Just have a Tascam, with Neve's? It'll all sound great! Rock-and-roll boogie woogie!! That is groovy hip talk, modernese! Have fun!

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