and i Have an RMe Madifx that sound really good in did but with a 10m word clock in it.... it´s a fantastic and stable card speacially the drivers and software really good... i´ve used in past several RME products they are really good in latency´s and software... converter´s for me they are a bit german to much, they are a bit cold... but good one´s...

Good, you are discussing! :)

Forgive my direct tone, I'm not being defensive if I read this way. I am very confident, well versed with excellent gear and years of experience. I put others to the drill all in the name of mutual advancement. Which means, I also want to learn but cut through the BS! Demystifying is what forums need to do more so:

Being said:

How is the Orpheus dated? That's about that most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. FW might be somewhat dated (for those without it) but a great converter is great converters. It sounds incredible and is a wonderful ADDA/Mic-Pre combo for tracking acoustic music or as a capture master AD. In fact, I just added the Atlas, another wonderful ADDA Mic Pre Combo.

These 8 channel ADDA's run cool and will most likely out last the hot and crammed larger 16 and 32 in rack ADDA. Time will tell. We are already seeing cooking issues with the over rated Aurora 16 and that is only 16 ADDA in a single rack. There is a reason why you want less than more in a single rack space.

Sound wise however, if you are saying the Orpheus is not in the same league as the O32 /10M, I'd say you have clocking issues and are obviously doing the round trip with issues? But don't all round trips have issues?

The Orion32 is a great buy but not to me when the company is telling us a $6500 external clock will improve what, the sound? This is nothing more than a patch for a broken or problematic clocking studio.

The test to this would be for two competent people in completely different studios to mix the exact same song with and without the 10M connected to the Orion 32, then listen to which mix sounds clearer and better in phase.
But we know this isn't going to happen but it would be fun.

Personal tastes aside, speaking only on shear clarity, I am confident the mix I did without a 10M using my RME internal clock would be the clear winner.

Why?
Thank you for asking,

Bob Katz and others have the technical on this but going on my hands on, anyone that hears the 10M improving their mix is already working with poor clocking or their ears are playing games with them.
My system is dead locked in phase. Therefore, I am confident to say on a public forum, I would challenge only a world class mixer to a public 10M test with me. I would love to be schooled and shown I am wrong. There is nothing I would like more than to learn how to improve my sound better than it already is. :) But to my extensive tests with this product, it can't improve my rig one bit. If the company wants to fly up to my studio and hear fro themselves, by all means.

I am however 100% convinced the 10M is beneficial to those having clocking issues. I'm sure you are hearing your mix tighten up but that is because you are patching something clearly wrong already.

Why?

It is my understanding (also confirmed by many world class Mastering engineers and designers of ADDA products, clocking issues are subjective to "each" DAW, computer, interfacing and workflow """". To say the 10M works for you means absolutely nothing for the next guy.
To sell this without mention why it works for some and not others, is misleading and not doing the company any good.
I've seen suckers on gearsluts invest in these because some big name(s) said it made HUGE improvements. People trust this to be true for them too. But, they left out why they hear huge improvement...
As an example: they are coming off of a dated Radar system and haven't ungraded their converters in over a decade!!!!!!!!!! No wonder!
Anyone working ITB would hear absolutely no benefit from this today, yet they are selling it to the user without qualification. $6500 for a clock that could be replaced with a better interface and smarter processing.

People buying the O32 are being mislead that the 10M sounds better. Nonsense. Some say Huge, some say no change. Whats up with that? What's up with saying it "sounds" better?
Am I going deaf? How old are you? Do you hear past 20k. My 6 year does but I don't. So I ask younger people if they hear anything and no one does.

We did test here and this was not our findings at all. If there was any change with the 10M connected to the Orions 32, it may have been worse. Internal clocks are closer to the DAW, which is where I trust and base my clocking around.
Maybe you hear "better" because you are using a bad or poor interface ?;)
I use all sorts of high end interfaces here. I also run a 32 ADDA hybrid rig and its solid without the 10m.
RME is extremely stable, as is Prism and Lavry here ;). I have PCIe AES 32 and RME PCIe MADI, FW all on separate cards and USB on separate cards.. They all serve a purpose and are all in phase with over $30,000 in converters here. So to say the Orpheus is dated, based on your 10m is hardy convincing.

Need more tests.. I even did extensive null tests (in and out) and everything nulled with or without the 10M. No change. I mentioned this to the rep and was told a null test isn't accurate. Yet, some pro's they backed up said it was what they did and this is why we should buy it! . WTF is that all about lol.

In the end, the dealer said I must be doing something wrong, I should invest it better monitors. He never asked for a moment, why I was able to have such a tight clocked system without the 10M.

My next question is what many people are asking today. Why is Antelope Audio selling a product that is half good or compromised?

I personally think this is a dated product playing on the blind leading the blind, backed up by a few shills coming from dated Radar systems pushing this. They know no better.
I had respect for this company up until I was given one. I wanted to love it, but can't in good conscious push something that doesn't fit my level of expectations. You'll be way better off learning how to ovoid clocking issues.

If you hear a difference with this external clock, in/out, its because you have clocking issues. This is confirmed by many mastering engineers (Bob Katz) and designers in the manufacturing business (Lavry, Prism, RME to name a few). It is also my own personal experience as well, which I trust the most.

NOTE: I didn't ever say an external clock doesn't help those who are experiencing improvement. I am saying, look to your setup and fix it before you go out and invest in something like this. If you have the money though, It looks really cool.

I will say, maybe its good for those in Post running excessive lengths and syncing to gear in different rooms. That I don't know. . But for the high end hybrid rig done well, ... learn why your clocking is falling out over this patch.

Now that I'm hammered the hell out of it,

What DAW are you using?
What interface are you using? Does this matter?
What OS are you using?
Are you doing the round trip?
Do you think all DAW's are equal?
Do you think your processing requirements have anything to do with the stability of your clocking?
Do you think everyone using the Orion 32 will hear improvement if they use the 10M?

Start here is ya don't think I have it right:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/masterclocks.htm

Then go here for more detail:
http://recording.org/index.php?threads/what-is-clock-jitter.45012/

and then for the forum debates:

Thanks for listening. Back to you :)