Rigid Polyester swamp cooler pad for traps?

Discussion in 'Studio Construction & Acoustics Forum' started by Emory, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. Emory

    Emory

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    Well this is my first post, so hello everyone..

    I've relocated a project studio and am having to do construction again :frown:. Figured Id run something by you guys before getting off on a tangent and deviating from the tried and true 703 route..

    I was just at the local home depot this evening looking for some rigid glass pipe insulation I heard they carried, well unfortunately I forgot it's 110 out today and being it's Arizona there isn't much of a demand for large pipe insulation,, oh well, hopefully they can order me some 703 at least.. Any-rate, I was walking down the isles looking at stuff, as I'm sure most of you do as well, thinking of how I could modify something to use in my studio.. Then it caught my eye, Bulk polyester evap cooler pads. Duracool, 33" x 160" Roll, High Efficiency Foamed Polyester Cooler Pad

    Has anyone tested this yet for traps? It's rigid, cheep, and I thought of even sandwiching polyester batting in front and between to make it a bit denser.

    Figured I'd ask first before I wast my time to experiment?
  2. camsr

    camsr

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    You are in Arizona? You should be able to get Thermafiber Mineral Wool Safing there easily. I found this out talking with someone at the only store in my area that carries mineral wool, they get it delivered from Arizona.
  3. Emory

    Emory

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    camsr: You'd be surprised at how hard it is to find preferred materials in such a large city, it's mind boggling. There is a OC plant in Eloy AZ, and nobody returns calls and they manufacture acoustic material, however nobody knows if it's 703, hell there is even a Johns-Manvilel plant as well. It seems to me they truck everything out of state, I went to lowes to special order 703, OC said it's not available?

    If you've got some contact info for me that would be great, it's been years since ive needed to get insulation and my old contact is out of business, there are plenty of companies to call but its like seeing the forest through the trees.
  4. avare

    avare

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    It looks like it might be closed cell, which not good for acoustics. Ask for 3 lb/ft³ fiberglass or 4 lb/ft³ mineral wool.

    Andre
  5. camsr

    camsr

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    emory, i did some research for you (mineral wool) and this is what i came up with
    ThomasNet® - Multiple Locations

    you can also try for rigid fiberglass (which is what 705 is, 703 might be under the same category)
  6. MadMax

    MadMax

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  7. Emory

    Emory

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    thanks

    Thanks guys, both have mineral wool, thomas net has IIG 4" 2x4 panels 4# and 8 and specialty products has Roxul 4" 4.5# density so I think I'll go with that if I cant find any 0c703, both gave me a decent price for what i'd pay online and shipping.

    I still haven't heard back from OC on where I can find some small quantities of 703 locally, I'll probably hold out for another day to decide. Home depot can get it for me, min 10 case order 12 2x4 sheets pr case, $104 pr case, I guess I could sell what I don't use, if I go that rout but I hate putting out $1000.00

    You guys are a great help thanks again.
  8. MadMax

    MadMax

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    $104.00 PER CASE?!?!?!?

    JEBUS!! That's a TOTAL RIPOFF!!!

    Try about half that/case from SPI.... I'm not gonna call em' for ya', so buy where you want... but SPI is either the 3rd of 4th largest distributor of Owens-Corning products on the planet.
  9. Emory

    Emory

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    I was just there at the SPI Phoenix location today, (602) 477-0341 Alisa, stated no 703 I went into the wearhouse to look at the roxul and didn't see any rigid glass period .

    I'm telling you it's hard to get here in AZ, the gal told me that the owens corning plant in Eloy Az, doesn't make the 703 and they have to get a full truckload, downturn on construction they haven't been getting that many loads.. She's going to give me a call when they get some more, From what i've seen, prices on the Net for 703 it's $60.- $75.00 for 6 panels plus outrageous shipping.

    So far my cheapest price and being able to get it, is 12 panel cases at the $104. and no shipping.. of course I have to buy 10 cases. If I can get 12 panel cases for 50-60 bucks from SPI I'll be a happy camper..

    I wonder if our hotter than hell climate has anything to do with the availability here, or perhaps the HVAC trade? From what I understand some ducting is made up entirely of rigid fiberglass, I was reading an article where some in the trade really bash that practice. It stated that just after a year the board is in horrible shape and there are a lot of particulates in the air, many are being replaced with metal ducting.
  10. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Moderator

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    Call John Manville and ask where you can get their products.........

    As far as the duct board goes - I specify Polymer Lined duct board when I want to go that route - the polymer keeps the fibers intact - and the board still has good acoustic properties - but never for sound treatment............

    the people in the trade who are bashing that probably have so much money invested in automated plasma cutting systems that they could never make the change - and are protecting their interests.

    There are places where galvanized metal duct makes perfect sense - Max's project is one of those cases - and there are other cases where it doesn't........... there is no blanket covering whrere this is always better than that...........

    Rod
  11. Rod Gervais

    Rod Gervais Moderator

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    Emory,

    do us a favor - start a thread (about your space) and work within that thread.......... it makes a lot more sense and is better for the forum than opening up a new thread every time you have a new question............ don't worry - when people see a thread pop to the top with a new question - they will look at it no matter what the name of the thread is.........

    Rod
  12. MadMax

    MadMax

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    Emory,

    Here's what I know...

    I just put in a call to the SPI office in Greensboro for a buddy of mine.

    The individual warehouses "should" get routine shipments of of goods in from their regional distribution centers and direct from the mfrs... with large orders triggering special shipments.

    Large "special" orders generally do get shipping charges tacked on... but a coupla' cases are NOT a special shipment. They should be shipped in their routine deliveries... and their prices are quoted to include routine delivery.

    6/11/10 pricing as quoted to me by SPI:
    4" 703 unfaced (24"x48") $1.70/sq ft (1 case minimum) 48 sq ft (6 sheets) = $81.60
    1" 703 unfaced (24"x48") $0.43/sq ft (1 case minimum) 128 sq ft (16 sheets) = $55.04

    Mineral wool, especially their in-stock material, while not the same as 703, is mighty close to the same density @ 3 lbs/sq ft. I think Rod will agree (though his information is far more accurate than mine) that mineral wool can be a practical substitute, if you cannot find either the 703 or the Manville... so all is not completely lost.

    Your biggest issue, from a "practical" standpoint, of substituting mineral wool, is that it is far more of a PITA to work with. I would recommend that you cover any mineral wool with a very fine mesh material to hold the fibers in place... cause' that stuff will eat you alive with itch factor.

    If you cover the mineral wool with a fine mesh, such as is used when blowing in insulation, is adding a 2nd layer of material over the front of a trap. One could argue that too much material in front of a bass trap reduces the frequency spectrum of absorption.

    It all depends upon the two fabrics used.

    Just something to consider.




    And yes, by all means.... try to keep everything together in one thread... as much as is practical. (I kinda' wish I had done that. )

    There are several dozen threads that are lost and buried in the archives that I asked.. like this very same question you're asking... that I cannot locate, and would be great to have tied to my build thread.
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