Hello. I'm new here and this is my first post. I'd like to know how to get the largest, fullest sound I can get out of my drum kit. Right now, my kit's in a finished basement and the ceiling is 6' 8" high and the room is 12' x 16'. My 4-track and my cheap Radio Shack mics make my drums sound like they're made of paper plates, but they're all I have. I understand that it will cost lots of money to get the sound I want and that there are many different factors for drum recording, such as mics, mic placement, the environment, the drums/heads, the console/mixer, the recorder, the media type, the effects processors, the monitors, the blah blah blah., but I'd like to be able to capture the full sound of my drums, and it would help to know if it will cost as much as a new Lexus to do it. I'm not saying that I want to get an arena rock sound per se, but I would like to get as accurate a recording as possible without having to declare bankruptcy. I am sorry if this has already been discussed before and/or if I am posting this topic in the wrong thread, but I honestly do not know if this is a mastering issue, if it should be taken care of during the initial recording, or what. A little help, please?
Comments
Pres=preamps....drums in picture = North Drums, Seattle Washingt
Pres=preamps....drums in picture = North Drums, Seattle Washington.
If they arent North then they are a knckoff of the design and the molds.
It wont cost you as much as a Lexus. The point is to be knowledgeable about your intent...Have a game plan to an end. Make decisions regarding the direction you want to go in a recording process within the boundarys of a particular place or environment. Making choices in the gear you purchase with the firm knowledge of what you can expect out of certain pieces in a recording chain ,will keep the overhead to at least a predictable level. Know what does what and why and then move forward to the place you perceive to be in your sights.
therecordingart wrote: One neat little trick to play with is to
therecordingart wrote: One neat little trick to play with is to send the recorded drums through a PA system and record that...then blend the recording of the PA with your actual drum recording.
have you tried this? did it work? The only time i've ever heard of this was in the mixerman diaries, and it was talked about in a way that made it seem like a joke. just curious if this has ever actually worked for you. i've had success doing something similar with keyboard/synth parts, but when i tried doing this with drums it didn't really do anything for me.
the best drum sounds i've got had everything to do with the room sound and decent mics. i use basically the same miking technique, but with a nice room it really rounds out the sound.
steve
The first time I tried it I was mic'ing my monitors in my contro
The first time I tried it I was mic'ing my monitors in my control room. I compressed the hell out of the drums and put a thick but short reverb on them. I mic'd my control room with the MS technique and cranked my monitors. I tucked this recording behind my original drum tracks and ended up getting a a nice result once I took the compression and verb off of the original tracks.
The other time I did it was with my buddies PA in my garage. That turned out even better for the grungy "indie" sound that they wanted.
It's a great trick. I guess it is all in the context of the s
It's a great trick.
I guess it is all in the context of the song. The more tricks and oddities done with the gear you have can make up for the lack of quality in that gear. BUT that only goes so far.
I have a pretty small setup, but now it is all mid to higher end stuff. I actually like my older recordings that were done with low end consumer stuff. The reason being is that I tried new things and would do oddball stuff that added character as opposed to now I try to shoot for a solid/polished sound. I'm still not getting that, but I'm trying for it.
pr0gr4m wrote: Electronic music contingent signing in... Sound
pr0gr4m wrote: Electronic music contingent signing in...
Sound replace the recorded drums with some great samples.
i wouldn't replace them completely, but adding good samples to your actual drum sound can get you a great, contemporary punchy sound.
listen to linkin park's "live in texas". though i don't know for sure, i'd bet there's a sample added to the snare. great live recording. especially the drums are cool.
scotthc wrote: Is there a particularly good VST instrument/sampl
scotthc wrote: Is there a particularly good VST instrument/sample group? I'm looking at BFD's package. Thanks
Scott
bfd sounds good, check also ni's battery 2 and drumkit from hell.
but if you're not replacing completely, you don't really need a big sample library with tons of multi samples.
when you're adding a sound to your live recorded snare or bassdrum, even a non-multisample with good punch is enough to pump up your sound. you can even take a synthesized sound. but it depends on what sound you like and how much of your sample or actual recording you blend together.
the best way would be to just take your recorded snare track and get it sounding as good as possible, then blend in the sample until you have the desired punch. this way you get the natural sound and dynamics of the real drums with the punch of the sample.
works great for me.
When I upgraded to Gigastudio 3 included was some of the Larry S
When I upgraded to Gigastudio 3 included was some of the Larry Seyer Acoustic Drums, enough to make a workable set. That's a beautiful sample set, very well done. I don't know how they compare to BFD or DFH, so if anyone's heard LSAD vs. those others I'd like know about it. I haven't bought the full LSAD because it is kinda pricey.
Triggering, replacing or adding stuff doesn't necessarily sound
Triggering, replacing or adding stuff doesn't necessarily sound bigger to me. As has been suggested a well tuned kit and the right mics and placement are key, it doesn't have to be expensive but you will obviously have to experiment to "capture the fullness of the kit" in a small room. You could try hiring some condensers and a large-ish rehearsal space and do what I call a "S.W.A.T. Recording" hehe.
Some ppl may have seen this, but as far as "re-amping" a kit thru a PA goes, if it was good enuff for the Stones...
http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_rolling_stones_start/
A good article, the interesting recording stuff is midway down. I like Kimsey's laid back approach, and it's fun to listen to "Start Me Up" and try to discern the effect of the PA bleed on the kit...
Nerd Alert!
I heard a guy say that a fellow he knew once rented out the lobb
I heard a guy say that a fellow he knew once rented out the lobby area of a two-story recording studio late one night when the studio was closed, and somehow positioned shotgun mics almost 20' in the air by using the metal stuff that was all over the ceiling and looked something like ///. Anyway, when the fellow was finished, the guy said that the drums sounded like cannons. Has anyone heard of a technique like this, using a large room with a high ceiling, but with shotgun mics on the drums? I heard the story years ago, so I could be missing some details or have some things backwards. Also, has anyone ever used boundary mics for overheads?
Boundary mics for overheads.......In my last commercial studio,
Boundary mics for overheads.......In my last commercial studio, I had built an 8'X5' plexiglass with heavy frame unit that hung from the ceiling over the drum booth. We could tip it in any direction as well as raise it,lower it, or remove it alltogether. We could also pack it with insulation on top. It was typically 6 or 7 feet above the drummer who was on an isolated riser under which was packed full of Owens-Corning. In other words isolated and dead. We had two Crown PZM's which we would attach to this plexiglass shield over the top. It was amazing the imagery we got with this setup. These were usually simply backup to the regular overheads which happened to be U87's. SM81's on toms as well as a set of MD421's if we wanted a closer mic'd sound...Beyer 201 and 422 on the snare and either D12 or MD409 on the kick. One session we put the 421's inside the open toms with the 81's on the tops...D12 inside the kick and an SM7 out a foot. Killer 80's rock drum sound.
The point about the boundary mics was the incredible sheen it gave the cymbals and the air it supplied the toms and the kit in general.
This setup also went under the grand piano which was top-mic'd with an 81 and a U87....sometimes a 414 for a more percussive sound.
Boundary mics are really worth the time and effort.
I dont know the 'soundgrabber' model. I do know that older Radio
I dont know the 'soundgrabber' model. I do know that older Radio Shack PZM's were made by Crown. As for the relative merits and comparisons of PZM type mics I would think most would be similar due to the physics of the design. The differences would probably be build quality. But again, I wouldnt be such an expert other than the ones I have personally experienced.
therecordingart wrote: One neat little trick to play with is to
therecordingart wrote: One neat little trick to play with is to send the recorded drums through a PA system and record that...then blend the recording of the PA with your actual drum recording.
I've never heard of this technique before. Thank you for sharing it. What kind of mics would you use on the PA system? SM57s?
tedcrop wrote: The RNC is a cheap alternative that might work for you.
Does it have stereo capabilities? That's a very important factor for me because I want to use whatever compressor I buy for my overheads as well as for monaural recordings. Has anyone used the Samson CCom16, the Presonus BlueMax or some other stereo compressor similar in price for stereo recording?
another point of view I've been partial to recording drums sinc
another point of view
I've been partial to recording drums since I started recording many years ago. Here's what I would try. Set the kit up so it is facing caddy-corner into the room. Then take your best pair of mics (same brand and model#, cardioid pattern) and place them about six feet in front of the drums about six inches apart at the height of your ears. Set the gains to the same level and record. Then, listen to what you have and move the mics(if you have to) to get the best sound. Then, once you have that, play add whatever mics you need to get what you want. You will probably only have to add one or two, if any.
Here are the main points:
1) Good drums tuned correctly
2) Skilled player
3) Good room for drums
If you have all of that, even a cheap pair of mics should sound passable.
Re: Need tips for getting a full, "big drums" soun NightOwl76 w
Re: Need tips for getting a full, "big drums" soun
NightOwl76 wrote: Hello. I'm new here and this is my first post. I'd like to know how to get the largest, fullest sound I can get out of my drum kit. Right now, my kit's in a finished basement and the ceiling is 6' 8" high and the room is 12' x 16'. My 4-track and my cheap Radio Shack mics make my drums sound like they're made of paper plates, but they're all I have. I understand that it will cost lots of money to get the sound I want and that there are many different factors for drum recording, such as mics, mic placement, the environment, the drums/heads, the console/mixer, the recorder, the media type, the effects processors, the monitors, the blah blah blah...., but I'd like to be able to capture the full sound of my drums, and it would help to know if it will cost as much as a new Lexus to do it. I'm not saying that I want to get an arena rock sound per se, but I would like to get as accurate a recording as possible without having to declare bankruptcy. I am sorry if this has already been discussed before and/or if I am posting this topic in the wrong thread, but I honestly do not know if this is a mastering issue, if it should be taken care of during the initial recording, or what. A little help, please?
I know this was posted a bit back but I noticed that most people are talking about mics and recording equipment. Having good recording equipment is definitely a good thing. The most important thing though is to have the greatest drum sound before you hook any mics up. You kit must sound top notch in order to record top notch. If you have a sunlite kit with concave 5yr old heads on it having $5k invested in mics is not going to help you. Learn to get the most out of your kit . There are many drummers out there that can play the coolest grooves and the wildest drum solos but have no idea how to make their drums sound good. It kind of like the race car driver and the mechanic. You need to be both in this situation.
Each tom is like tuning a 12 string guitar. You have a top and bottom head and each side has an average of 6 tuning rods. Start with new drum heads (coated remo ambassadors for toms are an industry favorite for recording. Each to their own though.), tension the heads evenly until there are no wrinkles. Tap each the head near each tension rod as if you are doing a rim shot with your finger. This should create a harmonic kind of like when you tune a guitar. If the head is too loose you will not get the harmonic. This tone you get near each tension rod should sound the same all the way around the head, or very close to the same pitch. Once you have the head sounding even on each tension rod you are ready to do the same to the other side. Some people tune the bottom head the same as the top. Some tune tighter or looser. I like to tune the top and bottom the same most of the time. Keep in mind when you are tuning that you don't alway keep tuning up. This depends on how high pitched you want to tune your drums. Tune high for jazz and lower for rock (most of the time). FYI-John Bonham used big drums that were tuned a bit high. His bottom heads were higher pitched that the top. Each part of his kit sounded even in volume as he played around it. Starting with evenly dynamic drums (and drummer) allows for a better recording. Man, i wish I had more time to continue but I do not. There is a plethora of information out there on getting a good drum sound. Keep in mind that "good" is an opinion so you should try to find information about how your favorite drummers tune and what they use. ....What they really use not just what they endorse!!!
Need to stay frugal? SM57 is the way to go! You can even find information out there for making your own subkick mic (rewired or polarity reversed 6" woofer to turn it into a sub frequency mic). If you can get one good condenser for an overhead preferably one that is Omni or can be switched to omni (if you are only using one).
Got to go... Check youtube.com. I have seen tuning tip videos on there that can be helpful.
V
I didnt look through the whole post but here is exactly what you
I didnt look through the whole post but here is exactly what you're looking for:
***you'll need a multi track digital recording system and a decent computer equiped with a decen audio interface using atleast 5-10 mics/channels.***
but if you dont have that you might want to get "that" 'cuz thats where it all starts sounding like it should.
then go here:
(i would only use it on kick, and toms but thats cuz my snare is amazing sounding and fake cymbols = ewwww)
but it is easily the cheapest way to make your drums sound "perfect".
Triggers If you aren't wanting to spend the money on good mics,
Triggers
If you aren't wanting to spend the money on good mics, what I would recommend is just getting a decent module like an Alesis D5 and getting some pintech triggers for your drums, and then just using a couple decent overheads for the cymbals. You can get some decent overhead packs for around 300 bucks at Guitar Center or from Musicians Friend. It's nice to be able to have the actual miked sound of your kit, but if you don't have a very good kit, and don't have very good mics, chances are that you'll never get a good sound. Triggers are probably your best bet.
Here is my two cents: I borrow some Oktava Mics from my friend'
Here is my two cents:
I borrow some Oktava Mics from my friend's dad. I absolutely love the sound of them. They are about $750 a pair on ebay from what I've seen. Expensive, but better than buying a whole $2000 drum mic kit. Alot better than a radio shack kit.
THOSE are your overheads, that captures the drumset as a whole. Get a low budget $100 kick mic, and an SM57 for the snare.
Capture the snare and kick with those mics, use drumagog like other people have suggested as a trigger. And you have a huge range of sounds. Mix it in with the natural sounds till you get what you like.
bayum, there you go. Oktava is just my situation, im sure there are hundreds of great mid budget mics out there I havent seen, heard of, or used. But in my case, I had tried Oktavas and I plan to purchase my own soon. =)
Getting the Ultimate drum sound Hi there.. First of all there
Getting the Ultimate drum sound
Hi there..
First of all there are many factors involved in getting a good drum sound.
It is the hardest things to get right, but when you do it is a satifying feeling.
The drums you hear on the classic records are not easy to get, and there are no shortcuts.
The equation has to right and all of the elements in the recording chain have to be present to get that sound.
Starting with the player...The drums, the room and the recording equipment.
Playing with the right weight is important - listen to Nick Mason (pink Floyd) or Steve Gadd.... or the drums on Beck's Sea Change album.
Then the drum kit:
Tune down, Use wood shells, coated ambassador heads, Good cymbals, Gaffer the fuck out of the toms and remove the lower resonant heads. Take off the front bass drum head and use pillows on the inside.
Mounted toms on the Bass drum cause unwanted noise - so you should minimise the kit as much as possible and if neccasary mount the toms ojn separate stands.
The room is also very important. If they don't sound good in the room it will be impossible to get a fat drum sound in the mix.
Get a dead sounding room and use a plate for reverb.
Snare drum should be a deep snare, such as a Ludvig 402 or a Yamaha 8 inch by 14 for extra fat sound..
Either Tune down a 14 x 5 snare like Gadd (Ludwig supraphonic 400) or tune normally an 8" thick snare.
Recording technique - assuming the player, the drums and the room sound good. Next you need to look at the micing technique. Neumann U47 are great for overheads. SM57 on snare. AKG D12E on bass drum. 414 on Hi Hats. Experiment with the mics - don't close mic the snare - it only captures the thin sound from the top of the head. Move the snare mic up!.
Record through some expensive descrete pre-amps like Neve 1081's or 31105's or 1073's Preferably on a vintage Neve console (like an 8078 or a 8068)
Record onto 16 tack 2" tape for the ultimate sound.
It is a good combination that works for us at The Way recording studio, london.
http://www.thewaystudio.com
http://www.myspace.com/thewaystudio
44 207 165 4756
44 7904 119784
Re: Getting the Ultimate drum sound thewaystudio wrote: Then t
Re: Getting the Ultimate drum sound
thewaystudio wrote:
Then the drum kit:
Tune down, Use wood shells, coated ambassador heads, Good cymbals, Gaffer the fuck out of the toms and remove the lower resonant heads. Take off the front bass drum head and use pillows on the inside.
Just curious. How many people record with the lower resonant heads completely off? I've recorded twice with everything on, the kick mic deep in the mic hole, I didnt get the sound I wanted, I use a trigger. Plus I was using a crappy CAD mic that I didnt like (no money...)
I will experiment with pillows too, because I know alot of people that pad their kicks for live, practice, but recording...? How different will that sound? And you would think you need the head on the kick for recording, but ya never know.
Do some searches and you'll find lots of info. The long answer
Do some searches and you'll find lots of info. The long answer is that you need a much better room and lots of better mics and pres to get a great sound. However, you can get started pretty cheaply. Start by learning to get a good close-mic sound on the kick and snare. You can take the room out of the equation as much as possible for this. Get an SM57 for the snare. There are a lot of other choices for the kick, but if you are really short of money just use another 57. It will come in handy later. Play with tuning the drums, adjusting the snares, positioning the mics. It's a good start for very few bucks.