I wouldn't call it low-end. Maybe the low end of the high end...

They're spendy channel strips. Of course, considering the cost of an SSL console, they may be a good investment for some "money channels".

I never cared for the sound of SSL, not compared to Neve or API. The advantage seems to be mostly in the flexibility, onboard dynamics, and summing- mostle in having a desk not a channel strip. That is to say, the best advantages come from elements that are present in their boards. Man, I am tired. David

Well, I have to agree with the approach that Steve Devino's taking - 6 SSLs and 6 APIs as a front end to PTHD. Sounds like a flexible front end that can do everything from Neve balls to hip-hop squeaky clean. At a certain level, you have to put some of your preference aside and have some of the gear that people call up and ask for, like Neumann mics and SSL. Then when they're in the room, paying money, you can show them how much better the other stuff you've got sounds :p .

SSL has a tremendous client pull, but I am not sure that having channel strips will draw clients like having a board. David

I agree with Doc. I find the sum of an ssl desk is greater than any individual part. With exception to the master section compressor. I find that the rack version (FXG384) is as good and delivers what it does in the console. As for pre/eq and/or channel dynamics, certainly not the best out there but still better than a lot that is out there.

This is for anyone to answer. Do you think Neve, Amek, or any of the other top manufacturers will follow in SSL's footsteps on aiming at the personal/project studio market?

Didn´t AMS-Neve recently release re-issues of their 1081 pre/eq in 1- or 2-unit rackdesign ?????? Amek has been doin this for quite a while with the "pure path" -stuff. Personally don´t like the Ameks, they sound very anonymous. Too clean for me. I have two very well-made Neve 1073-clones and I have not even looked at what pres are out there since i got them. They´re the thing, very nice ;)

i don't understand where the 'ssl making low end gear' thing comes in. ssl has nothing to do with low end gear. just because they're making channels strips available as outboard doesn't mean that one component is compromised. they've had these 1ru logic channels out for many years. the first time i heard one was 1994, and they were out well before that... :c:

Butta, the statement was'nt aimed towards the "quality of gear" but towards the (quanity) many of us who make purchases on gear aim towards the "personal/project studio" market.

SSL has never had the best reputation for great mic pres...great desks for sure, but not necessarily the best pres. They helped spawn the outboard mic pre revolution! Everyone loved their boards, but preferred Neve, API and other pres.

I do know that their pres actually did get better with some of their more recent boards...

Actually, I think the fact that they have now released a channel strip is a desperate move for them. They are getting killed with the shift away from large studios with the home project studio boom. They are now scrambling to move into this field.

I am currently looking at some new pres, and will not consider the SSL products.

Saying that SSL is getting "killed" by project studios is a bit much . Their 9k is their fastest selling console ever . They make channel strips because there's a market for that due to the great number of home studios ; As far as the pres are concerned they're different from one console series to the other and the ones in the 9k (same the channel strips) are highly usable . As you said they got much better. The EQ's are very good too . When I mix on a 9k I don't use that much outboard if any .

I'm sure that they do have the most successful large-format console out there with the 9000K. BUT: R&D and manufacturing costs on a big analog board like that must be very high. Leveraging some of that technology and selling channel strips, etc, surely will boost the ROI, no? They're probably the biggest player in a very small niche.

I'll also agree with folks who say that the boards aren't known for their mic pre's. SSL's claim to fame seems to be the ease of use and comprehensive automation faculties. I've heard, however, that when you hear the channelstrips as opposed to the console, the channelstrip sound better, due to the cleaner path post channelstrip.

I don't think I'd have any qualms using SOLELY SSL pre's to track a project. Makes you work harder on mic selection/technique, that's all.

SSL, as with most large-format console companies, as well as ALL music companies and businesses, are realizing the "trend" of home/ project studio production has moved to almost "standard" status. With that in mind, they're trying to keep themselves valuable in the marketing of gear for those folks.

Let's face it.... whether it's due to convenience, the downloading-of-music issues, "the big 3" now, and very soon, probably becoming "the big 1" (record labels), recording budgets literally becoming up to 1/5th the size of them in the pas, etc. (and more than likely, all factors of the above chasing each others tails), large-format studios are sweating bullets, at least what I've seen anyway. That's not to say ALL large studios, but definitely a big number of them. Sure, I'll ALWAYS cut stuff in a big room when budget allows, but when budgets are smaller, which is almost always now, I stay at home, program a lot more, bring in my overdub folks, keep more dollars in my own pocket, turn in the tune and make "the man" happy. I have no space for an SSL, although the "wow" factor would be nice! :D And our need for 2 chanels of this or a chanel of that definitely started out as a fix to digital descrepencies in sonics. I now believe that because we have the convenience of those "flavors" in our project rooms it's easier to go that route. At that point, you're just taking your recording space into consideration, and that's it, as far as "quality control" issues go. Other than that, you're using the same gear, hopefully using your same tracking and mix engineers :D , etc. I know too many big records, daily, being cut up the street from me, hear them on the radio 6 months later, and know that the sonic qualitly is virtually impossible to tell from song to song.

All that being said, it's all just business.... you either grow and change or you become ".....remember that one company?"

I have a small studio and will probably never have enough cash (not to mention space!) for a SSL console. I am initially quite interested in the SSL rack units but am wondering at the comments of those who seem to think that the SSL pres are only ho hum. Judging by the price of these units I would certainly hope they would be better than that. How are the SSL pres lacking compared to Neve, API and others in this range of equipment?

Dave

How are the SSL pres lacking compared to Neve, API and others in this range of equipment?

I don't think the SSL mic pre is anything to brag about and not even close to being in the same league as the Neve and API. Sure the SSL is a good clean mic pre, but so is the RNP. The eq and comp on the channel strip would have much more value than the mic pre.

Wow. Not even close to the Neve or API? Interesting. Do people with those huge SSL consoles make little use of the preamps?

I've been looking to buy a high end preamp and was thinking the SSL rack unit would be a great buy. Was also thinking of an Avalon M5. Would Neve and API still be a league above this? In my studio we mostly track voice over stuff so I just want a really pristine and clear preamp. I have a Summit Audio 2BA-221 which is good but still I think it lacks the sheen to be had in some of the higher end units.

Dave

It's really an apples vs. oranges thing. The SSL pre is a very good quality pre.. it is just relatively uncolored and lacks attitude.. some people love that and some hate it. AudioGaff and I hate it.

I had a client that had mixed his stuff at another studio on a SSL and he really did not like the sound.. He said that all the limiters and automation on the board made the engineer go nuts with processing and felt that it was a lot of overkill. He ended up coming to my studio and remixing everything on my old MCI 636 console just because he preferred the color and character of it..

Do people with those huge SSL consoles make little use of the preamps?

Sure they do. But you'll also find that ppplaces that have SSL also have other mic pres as well. And most of the additional mic pres are of the colored type to give more in tone variety.

Hate is a strong word. I'd wouldn't go as far as to say I hate the SSL mic pre, I wouldn't mind having one. I surely would not want the mic pre alone without the eq and comp. I do hate what they the cost for what you get and would not ever pay fair market price for one. I always thought the mic pre's in my Neotek were better than those in the SSL.

I think the Avalon M5 you mentioned is a better mic pre. The Neve and API are about as coloered as you can get, so stay away if you want that crystal clear sound. The Martech, John Hardy and Great River MP-2 would be at least a full step up from the Summit with all being more detailed and musical.

AudioGaff, thanks a lot for the info and the suggestions.

These forums are a great help to those of us who don't have access to the higher end gear.

Dave

I think it is important to discern between "E" which sucked, "G" which was fairly sterile, and those on the J/K series boards which are very good clean sounding pre's. For that open sound the J9000 is a great console to cut a band with. And while I would opt for a Neve or API with a rock band J/Ks have their place. And let's face it, when we record organic music we need those big boards so we can mic the drums with 18 gazillion mics in a great sounding room along with direct and amp feeds for bass and guitars as well as a maybe not so scratch vocal. Now that my frie :p: nds is a tough job in a 10x13x8 room. Music needs to breath and bands need to play together in a large room. You can overdub anywhere with a few good mics and pre's. I think that the large facilities that want to survive are becoming creative and much more accomodating to the indie budget. I found that by just asking if the studio would be interested in the business I had at the rate I had a reasonable situation was arrived at fairly quickly with both sides meeting in the middle.

I took a look at the SSL website and the channel strip preamps are the same as the ones on the XL 9000 K Series consoles.

Dave

Would the SSL pre be worth investing in? How does it compare in the "bang for the buck" arena, as opposed to other outboard gear in its category? Will it give me that "professional" sheen that one looks for in recordings? And on a scale of 1-10, how would one rate this as a front end to a decent interface?

From what I've gathered from this thread, the pre amp is good but there are better while the compressor and the EQ are definitely first class. It seems to fit in price wise if you think about buying three separate very high quality pieces (pre, comp, eq). It comes down to how it sounds in comparison, which I know is what you're asking. There is a review of the SSL channel strip in the most recent Sound on Sound magazine, but I haven't read it. I am curious about it though.

Dave