What do you mean "hack"? Steal it? Get a job and earn your moeny. You get what you give. If you steal, people will steal from you. It always comes back worse than you do it to others.

You are showing how your parents, your friends, your educational and religious system have failed. What a great, respected talent you'll never be, unless you change your way of thinking.

Why don't you put your mind to good use and become a plug-in writer? Become a better talent so that people will pay you money, so that you can attract the type of clientele that needs more plugs.

Brent

Gee...I couldn't afford a car when I turned 16, so I stole one...now THERE's a defense...my, how the world changes...steal a car, go to jail; steal software, announce it to the entire planet earth...

<<>>

And then Atlas Shrugged.

Chris, go to your room! Your grounded for one month! No phone, TV, video games or computer at all for you young man. You will delete those plugs and promise to never do it again. Oh, and that includes no MP3's as well.

:) Doesn't the original post seem a bit odd to anyone? :D

--Rick

I have every plug that Waves makes. I bought them. I did not pay retail. If you do, you are a fool. I am a TDM user. I will always have to pay more because it is a TDM system, and that is OK, because I know that the software is held to a higher standard, based on the platform, and it will be supported well.

It is tangable. It performs a function. You don't buy gear to possess it, or look at it. You buy gear to use it. Most times you set it and forget it. Just because there is no cold hardware in the rack sucking down AC doesn't mean that it can't do the job.

Waves has to pay people to make the stuff. They have to support it. There is alot to it. When there is a new version, the old one still works. You don't have to upgarde unless you want to make use of a new or different OS.

Remember that when you buy a plug, it is for multiple channel use. 128 channels of a compressor in a rack would cost $64,000. Or one Waves Platinum Bundle with a crap load more function, eq's, limiters, enhancers, etc, $2,500.

I would never condone the use of "crackedplug-ins especially if you are running a commercial business off of them.

With that being said I also find it hard to believe that the majority reading these forums have "NEVER EVER used a cracked plug-in....

In anycase im still a hardware junky soo all of you plug-in people can send your hardware over here :)

Tore, I quite like the your quote at the bottom of your posts. Right on ;) .

MisterBlue.

Originally posted by XHipHop:
Sheet,

That was a decent argument and I agree with some points you've made. But let's say you were a Motu 3.0 user who just went to 4.0. You also invested heavily in a suite of Bomb Factory plugins. They have not yet been ported to 4.0 and as of now, there are no plans to do so...so you just lost all of those plugins. They are software!!!

I lost money on buying some Refuse (a link between Reason and PT 5.11) because when i went to OSX, PT added Rewire support.

If there wasn't a VST to AU adaptor for OSX, lots of people would be complaining about money the lost on plugins.

It's like a never ending money cycle...

I'm just trying to be much more selective when i buy software from now on...because every few years, everything changes.

I agree on the never ending cycle. And things do change about every three years. When I went to OS X and PT HD/6.1 I had to upgrade everything including Mezzo, which I have to have to do back ups. But, all in all, we should keep in mind that we are using computers, which are disposable technology. I would much rather be doing this, than be locked into a hardware solution w/an OS like the one Mackie uses, that prohibits larger drives, increased sample rate, etc.

We can't fight it. And in the long run, when you consider dollar per function, it is still cheaper than buying hardware.

As far as MOTU/BF, there is more going on there than meets the eye. Eric the "Bombguy" and the MOTU boys don't see eye to eye on things. He is a hard man to get along with. He, like others, is into releasing better product. But the people that make decisions on various platforms make life hard. At one time he wasn't getting along well with Digi either, and subsequently the BF stuff was eliminated from the Digi HD plug in bundles all together.

There is no way to tell what the future holds. It is inevitable that OS's will change with hardware. New concepts and ideals will be introduced. People will get pissy. One thing is for sure. No matter what you buy, analog or digital, it's days are numbered.

Maybe I will come up with a subscription service. Instead of people buying the software that they want, they will rent it. The software companies can charges a license fee, or agrees to take royalties, etc. What do you think?

Or, Would you be willing to pay more upfront for a service charge/policy that locks you into multiple upgrades in the future, gambling on the company's (or your) existance?

Originally posted by XHipHop:

I'm sorry i made this a hardware vs. software debate. I do LOVE software and use Reason to death. I also just downloaded a slew of FREE audio units (crystal and the ones i posted above) and they made me wonder what we're really paying for here. [/QB]

Don't be sorry. We're just having a little friendly discussion here about an interesting topic, nobody is absolutely right or wrong and you made some valid points. I was not advertising the Lexicon as the holy grail but I think we agree that a lot of people would be interested in a "Lexicon-certified" PCM-91 plug-in for, let's say, $395. I also dare to state that this algorithm would not use more than 5-10% of the resources of a current computer. Not a low number but also not unreasonable for a powerful algorithm. Calculating back to when that unit was released and knowing the status of the semiconductor/ASIC technology at that point the PCM-91 can not possibly have a more powerful engine. The M6000 I can not judge but I am willing to go with your statement that it might eat up the better part of a computers resources in a full-blown version.
Thinking about it - it could alternatively be offered as a TC Powercore algorithm :roll: ... the TC ClassicVerb is IMHO already the best sounding software algorithm out there today, although admittedly not competing with the M6000.

With respect to the freeplug-ins I think you get what you pay for. There are a few rare cases in which people don't understand the value that they have created and give away huge amounts of work and distribute very usable algorithms. Most of them, however, are in the same category as amateur music. Largely mediocre at best, not bad in a few rare cases but also nowhere near any professional quality standards. I personally have given up trying them out as I see it as a waste of my precious time. I'd rather produce music with tools I know will work the way I need them to work.

But then again, if you are happy with freeware algorithms, by all means, please use them over cracked versions of commercial software.

Peace,

MisterBlue.

I am against all the hacked and cracked stuff out there, however in saying that I can definatley see the temptation.

I vividley hate the fact that Digidesign, Apple and Emagic control your destiny with continual upgrading, careful selections that you must have "A" to get "B" and so on. A good example is the Digidesign Ptools 6, not compatible with OS 9, want the new features you gotta get the upgrade, but wait, you need OSX, then you need to remember that apple force you that way as they wont produce OS9 anyhow...hmm the plugs to run in X have to have more grunt so get your wallet out again. Want more tracks or a function so basic freeware can be obtained if you look hard enough, again get out your wallet, if it says Digidesign on it be prepared to research your product to ensure you get basic features you should get are even there.

Q: Who has the money to stay on this train
Q: Where do you get the money, I am in a great job but in the audio industry its never $100 bucks, By the time it comes to Australia we are always talking Thousands!

Last question: we have had some seriously great recordings in the past on gear that does it well, how much is necessary and where do you draw the line and say, I am happy with this? You cant anymore.

So when buying outboard gear , which is my main vice, you get something you dont have to wory about not being supported or paying to upgrade it twice a year, then having to chuck it out with the new OS not supporting it, dont wory, you can buy a new one as i am sure the next model is just around the corner.

at least when cracked plugs hit the net, although I dont use them and wont by ethics, you cant deny the arguement for the poor little bloke on $10 per hour trying a plug that will be obselete in 6 months time anyhow.

Ok, nuff said, I am a lunatic, just a bit concerned about the trend this Digital world is going on..

Peace to all.
AJ

Its pretty simple....

You know the deal with software upgrades/costs. If someone doesnt want to pay the amount of money required to own theseplug-insthen they have the choice of not using the desired platform or plug-in....unfortunately the cracked plug-in debate will never end....Its no different than the 14 year old who justifies downloading a cracked copy of autocad or maya by saying they "could/would never afford a legit copy soo are they really stealing"..

I admit that it is very frustrating when you have to deal with new releases and new os's. For some this costs money, for me I choose to not jump on the "band wagon" I usualy will use what works and wait things out for a year or so. In most cases this doesnt cause the loss of clients. I still can remember how soo many jumped on the PT HD wagon (the day the system was released) a week later there was nothing but pissin and moaning over no plug-in availability.

Again in this business like any other and well very much like anything else in life there are pro's and con's, you have to weigh out the benefits and consiquinces and make a logical yet smart decision.

In usingplug-insyou may have the luxury of using the selected plug-in on multiple tracks as opposed to one hardware 1176 that can only go on one channel. however the con to that luxury is that you have to deal with the constant software upgrades etc....

If you look at the number of people involved in the development of this software all the way down the packaging/distribution. it simply costs money. Its funny but you run into similar things in the studio (why cant you spot me one more hour....its only one more hour, you didnt have the room booked anyhow) the client not understanding that one more hour of tape passing over the studer costs money, the power bill needs to be paid and all of the gear will simply be used 1 hour more with wear and tear....

If you dont want to deal with upgrades/costs of software you have a few choices....

1. Steal a cracked version
2. Dont use the plug-in and buy the hardware version that will cost ALOT more!
3. Let a studio pick up the costs and book the room.

long live analog! :D

Originally posted by Rick Hammang:
:) Doesn't the original post seem a bit odd to anyone? :D

--Rick

No doubt Rick! Threads like this are created for one purpose only, to troll for kaos. We all know what's right and wrong. This thread is both wrong in principle and in suggestion. It was created to see what would happen and how much response they would muster up from our members. Since it was aboutplug-insit should have been started in the plug-in forum as well. Let's close this bag of worms and move on to brighter topics.

[ August 25, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: RecorderMan ]

Some people want this topic closed and a some want it open. Okay, initially I closed this because it's a bomb topic, however, if we can, take this to a higher
level and learn something positive... I will keep this open.

I won't say I've never used anything that's cracked or pirated. Heck, video games over here are dirt cheap because of Hong Kong and Taiwanese imports, and sometimes the temptation is just too great. :D

When it comes to audio stuff though, I either go with default plugs, free plugs, or borrow someone else's legitimate system.

That is all.

As soon as you earn money with the music you produce on cracked software, it's time to buy it,
although here is no point in using it before you actually do...

There are LOTS of Freeware-Plugins out on the net, that do a good job for consumer-level (and beyond!)
And if you cannot afford a Logic Audio Platinum or ProTools, ProTools FREE and the entry level Logic Audio will fulfill all your needs for free or a reasonable fee.

DAMMIT, PAY FOR YOUR SOFTWARE, GEEK!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

n

I have been endorsing some plugs and there are guys from other studios that want all for free, guys with budget, many years in the market and so.
If you are a pro, you must act like a pro. Imagine someone else invading your studio in the middle of the night and stealing let us say, an adat. It is cheap.. but it is yours, no one has the right to pick it.
Although this scheme of pace is a pain in the ass, it seems to be the most reliable system available.
My only critic is about prices. Man, I paid $1100 for a bundle in 1999, then in less than 1 year go more $400 to use the same stuff and now I was contacted to pay more $160 so as to saty under OS X / PT 6.1 / V4 TDM

I would buy much more plugs if they were reasonably priced, let us say $500 and so for a bundle.
The new Waves tranform seems to be pretty cool, but guys are feeling a pain in their pockets.

I have not, do not and will not use crackedplug-ins Stealing is stealing. People who steal belong in jail.

:mad: :td:

Enough fuel on the fire.

They may not be the best plugs in the world, but you can get almost 150 for them from Cycle 74 for around US$200.00.

http://www.cycling74.com/products/pluggo.html

Some good, some bad, some real garbage, but some are a lot of fun and will get the job done. They are VST, MAS and RTAS compatable (sorry, MAC only!), and they will always ship the latest upgrades to registered users.

Peace,

Uncle Bob

:p:

good question.. and what is the meaning of warezz audio? does it mean where is audio (stuff)?
sorry for the silly question -lol

Seems there are some groups that do this as a challenge.

However, as far as I have heard no PT HD TDM/HTDM plugs have been cracked. Pace is doing fine.

So, isn´t it time to lower the prices of bundles?

Hey Waves, if you gimme a discount of 50% on the Master Bundle I shall pick one!

dave, imagine having to pay for upgrade all your fdae folder. I did with Waves and TC. No cash for all that.

I vote to close it. It's a boring topic that's been hashed over a million times before. It's kind of like watching re-runs on TV. Seems every post is about cracks, studio monitors or mic pres. Mac vs. PC - yada yada yada yawn....

Gee, I must be having a bad day. Sorry for the rant.

I do agree 50% with ya -lol
So let us talk 02R 96k or girls or about food. But hey, isn´t this the plugin forum?lol

Devil's advocate here.

How about comparing the cost of upgrading vs. the cost of maintenance and tape cost 20+ years ago? At least when I pay for an upgrade, I get something newer, something "better." Maintenance just kept things in their present state, and made sure that they kept doing the exact same thing in exactly the same way that they always had (which was and still is a pretty awesome thing; i'm thinking mainly tape machines and consoles here). With hard disk based recording and control surfaces, and digital hardware and software in general, the cost of physical maintenance is mostly non-existent, and upgrading has now become the ongoing cost of operation. These costs have ALWAYS been around, and always will be; it's just the terminology that's changed. To the seasoned engineers out there, were you guys disgruntled back in the day when you had to pay someone, either contracted, or on staff, to do nothing but keep the gear up to par, or have these complaints only recently surfaced?

When deciding whether to upgrade, I think two questions must be answered.

1. Will the new purchase allow you (me) to work more quickly, more efficiently?

2. Will the purchase give me more capabilities, better sound(s), etc.?

If you can't answer yes to either of those, then I don't think an upgrade can be justified. If it's ONLY about having the latest/greatest, then you don't need it, whether you steal it or pay for it.

I don't buy into the instant obselescence/instant worthlessness of software at all. Its worth is not determined by what you can sell it for, but by what you sell its product for. Case in point:

The studio I work in recently upgraded our DAW. Up until less than six months ago we had a Mac clone (100mhz) with an 882 interface running PT 4.3.2 on a Session 8 card with a 9 gig external drive for audio. The retail value on it is squat, and has been for a long time. $100, maybe, for the whole system. Really just a few paper weights and door stops if you think about it that way. BUT, we charge $95/hour for the studio, and that DAW is just slightly less than what we need for the work that we do. Granted, I was happy to get an uprade because of efficiency, but we have lots of happy clients who were more than happy to come pay us for the product that it provided. They were completely oblivious to the technology itself.

If you can still charge clients for the product that your 1 1/2 year old setup produces, then it is FAR from worthless or obselete. Just change your perception of its worth and your true needs.

hey, $95/hour? wow!
Pay me $50/hour and I travel tomorrow with my nice Pt Mix/G4/02r and mics to your door!.