the Blackjack has ONYX mic pres. i'm thinking there must be a problem with your SM 58. does it work with any other PA or mixer?

The SM58 should work perfectly well plugged directly into the Blackjack. The tube pre is an idea worth trying, but I'd be suspicious of something in the original SM58 chain being either set wrong or not working correctly.

EDIT: And unless you bought the SM58 brand new from a Shure dealer, there's a higher probability than you might think, it could be a counterfeit.

I'd like to know how many db less the 58 is producing..
It's true that a 57 and 58 will need higher levels on the preamp. Some will use a booster like cloudlifter to compensate with the lower db gain certain cheap preamp can deliver...
https://www.sweetwa…

Like I said I am inexperienced in all of this. I may have found the problem. When I use the audio technica I am around 7 inches from the mic when I talk. The shure was the same distance when I first wrote in to all of you. Now I find that when I get right on top of the shure sm58 the volume levels are much closer. I wonder if I was just inexperienced with microphone placement. So the new question is do spoken voice people use these microphones at differences from the thier mouths. Are powered mics like the audio technica used at the same distance as the sm 58? If so, the issue could just be my poor microphone placement.

don't expect any two different mics to get the same gain at the same settings. that's why god invented gain trim / attenuator knobs.

what model of Audio Technica do you have?

My Audio Technica is a 3035. The sales materials said this before is was discontinued.
Designed for critical home/project/professional studio applications and live performance, this 30 Series large-diaphragm side-address cardioid condenser delivers exceptional detail and low noise. With its extended low-frequency response, the AT3035 produces rich, full sound reproduction and handles extremely high sound pressure levels with ease. Tailored for a smooth, natural sound, this mic is a perfect complement for digital recording equipment. Along with its rugged construction and high-performance specifications, the AT3035 provides an exceptional level of consistency from model to model.

dvdhawk, post: 447427, member: 36047 wrote: The SM58 should work perfectly well plugged directly into the Blackjack. The tube pre is an idea worth trying, but I'd be suspicious of something in the original SM58 chain being either set wrong or not working correctly.

EDIT: And unless you bought the SM58 brand new from a Shure dealer, there's a higher probability than you might think, it could be a counterfeit.

( I bought the SM 58 new from a reputable guitar store. )

You shouldn't need a cloud-lifter with a 58 if your BlackJack pre-amp is working correctly. While dynamics like the 58 require a bit more gain than a condenser ( the exception here being the Shure SM7B which requires a lot of gain) the 58 should work fine with your current pre. You mentioned being 7" off the mic, which is a bit far from a dynamic. For a condenser - at least a decent condenser, 7" is okay because condensers are generally more sensitive than most dynamics are; but coming in closer to the 58 will help you get a more robust signal. Dynamic mics are made to take very high SPL ( sound pressure level), so getting right up on the mic is okay.

This is all contingent upon your preamp working correctly - and it sounds as though it is because you mentioned that your condenser works fine.

Russ Mead, post: 447430, member: 50377 wrote: So the new question is do spoken voice people use these microphones at differences from the their mouths. Are powered mics like the audio technica used at the same distance as the sm 58? If so, the issue could just be my poor microphone placement.

As to your question about distances, the answer is Yes. VO artists commonly "work" the mic ( those who are experienced) based on how dynamic their reading (performance) is. In this situation, (usually) either a condenser or a Variable D ( like an RE20) dynamic are used, and if a dynamic like an SM7 is used, they are tapping into a preamp that has sufficient gain.
Condenser mics are used at a variety of distances, based on how dynamic ( intimate, conversational vs. loud and punchy)
Dynamic mics are commonly used for VO work; but they are usually those of the Variable D design, such as the EV RE20.
That's not to say you can't use a 58 for this purpose, though, because you can. Unless you are using a very weak preamp, inline boosts for a 58 shouldn't be necessary.

It really depends on what type of 'performance" the VO artist will give, based on the copy they are reading.

If you are still getting very low levels with the 58 while being very close to it ( 2") then there's probably a fault with the mic. As Kurt mentioned above, your next step would be to try it through another audio device, or even through a PA.
Process of elimination is the key. :)

addendum..
I just read the specs for the BlackJack, and according to this, the unit delivers 60db of gain, which should be fine for your 58.

fwiw
-d.

Update from Original poster: First thanks to all who helped on my question. I think I understand my issue now. I just did not understand the differences between dynamic and condenser microphones. I was too far away from the sm58 when I was using it. So that with the difference in how much gain is needed compared to the AT 3035 made it seem like I had some kind of hardware issue. Once I stopped comparing the two mics I was fine. When I got closer to the sm58 and turned the gain up, and turned up the playback gain, it worked ok. When I dialed in the AT3035 by turning down the gain, and turning down the playback gain, and moving the mic back to around 7 inches it was ok as well. Since I am so new I thought I would pass on my thoughts about all of this. When I could compare the two mics in finished recordings at first I liked the sm58. When compared to hobby type of podcasts the SM 58 seemed "more professional" than whatever inexpensive computer type mics those folks were using. But when I started to look specifically for what I should sound like I was using podcasts from places like NPR as my "guide". As that as a reference, the sm58 seemed like it had to much extra base and sounded like I was in a box. So with NPR as a reference, I am going to do this. For general computer microphone work, I am going to use the SM58. When I am recording a spoken word piece that will see wide distribution, I am going to pull the AT3035 out of the box, dial it in, and use it. But I suspect you will laugh at this next thought. I am afraid all of this has sent me chasing that NPR sound that I will probably never achieve. Thanks again, Russ Mead

We always appreciate updates from the OP, and anytime someone takes the time to come back and share what they've discovered. So, thanks for that!

Working with a device like the Blackjack you are certainly going in with one hand tied behind your back - due to the lack of EQ/tone controls. That leaves you making all of those adjustments in whatever software you're using to record. As you'll find through experimentation, the closer you get to the SM58 (and pretty much any other cardioid pattern mic), the more bassy the sound gets. You may find that a certain distance from the mic (with the appropriate amount of Gain) will give you what you're looking for from a 58.

To me, the trademark NPR sound is a large cardioid dynamic (E-V RE20, Heil PR40, Shure SM7b) at close range (an inch or two), with the bass EQed to suit the voice.

Best of luck.

Russ Mead, post: 447451, member: 50377 wrote: For general computer microphone work, I am going to use the SM58.

Not for nuthin', but Bono used the 58 for vocals on U2's Joshua Tree album. One would think he could have had his choice of any mic made, even pricey vintage stuff... but he liked the 58 on his voice.
To be fair, I would assume they were also connecting it to a very nice preamp... and trust me when I tell you that the 58 ( or 57) through a pro preamp ( and by "pro" I don't mean a $100 Behringer), will change your mind about dynamic mics. Those mics come alive, they'r warm, rich, hell, they even have a kind of silky sparkle when a nice preamp is used with it...

I might be out of line ( and I'm happy to be corrected), but I'm thinking that the majority of veterans here, if forced to choose, would prefer a 58 through a professional preamp, as opposed to a pricey condenser through a cheap, budget-level pre.
I know I would. ;)
FWIW
-d.