HI,
most everything looks good.
do not use samsung drives.
WD, SEagate, Maxtor.
get a vantec 120mm stealth. quieter than nexus.
use an IDE OS drive. leave the sata for audio/samples.
Pioneer or Sony over plex.
2 reasons i say this. Plex is very finicky about what media you use,
and the pioneer will play in more set top boxes.
plus the plex has to be master on a chain which can make cabling a pain sometimes.
also roxio sucks, use Nero. both have the same amount of ccr error.

very little advatage to the asus, more sata ports giga lan (fxteleport?)

why not AMD 64?
faster, ready for the 64bit OS due out in may. same price point.

Scott
ADK

I hear you on the Samsung HDD. I'll go with Seagate. I've been reading "SilentPCReview.com" and have gotten some of the recommendations from there.
But wouldn't an SATA hdd for the OS be faster than IDE?
Thanks.

its not about speed, its about bios issues, etc in using a Sata.
FYI Sata and IDE are very close in speed. for an OS drive it really dont matter. IDE is much easier to set up.

Scott
ADK

Oh, I seeee...and I sure do want it easy to set up seeing that I'm a newbie with building a PC. Thanks for your input! I'm sure I'll be back for more info. In the past I used a Yamaha MD8, which records on a minidisc. This setup's gonna put the MD8 to shame!

OK then, I'm making progress here. A couple other things I'm wondering about.
First, should I pay Aberdeen an extra $50 to install the CPU in mobo and test it or just buy em and do it myself? I have put chips into sockets in my day job and I wouldn't think it's too big of a deal. Of course I've got and ESD grounding strap too.

Second, Should I pay the extra 50 bucks or so to get Windows XP PRO over Home version. And yes, I am going to need to use this machine for the internet too. Verizon says my DSL (hooking up next week) has built in firewall and Norton anti-virus protection too.

Third, am I going to have all the cables and stuff I need to put this thing together, as long as I don't buy OEM parts?

Guess that's it for now. Thanks very much for your help!

assuming an IDE OS drive,
with the Plex on the secondary IDE chain. you will find it needs to be master.
if slave it throws all kinds of errors trying to laod the OS.
it will work as slave on the primary, but due to cabling issues this is usually not happening.
this happens with TYan 2885, Gigabyte any, MSI any, Asus any,
not sure about super micro. (any meaing in the last 18 months)
we ship 15-20 systems a week. so dont tell me it dont happen.
dont get me wrong Plextor is my second choice.
but as far as being able to use the majority of "cheap" media and being read by set top dvds the pioneer is better. (this would appy mostly to videographers well make dvds, rather than audio guys doing back ups. however if your doing surround and using dvd quality it may apply if you test in various players to hear your mix)

pioneer is also cheaper.

i agree dont buy OEM processors,
however do buy oem everything else. the mother board will come with most if not all your cables. you may need an extra IDE cable.

DO buy OEM Windows XP home. there is no differance between retail and oem, other than a few hours of free support from microshaft. the disks are indentical.

choosing an online vendor should not be just about price, you should consider who will or can give you support.

can you call or do they force you to order on the web?

Scott
ADK

Thanks guys,
Newegg was the place I had found all the parts I'm buying so that's who I plan to go with. I don't think it's worth trying to save a few dollars and get everything shipped in form different places. Plus, I should get a break on shipping for getting it in one place.

As far as the support for Verizon DSL, I'll have to check and see. But yes they do have a local number I can call to ask about support.

And yes, I like the idea of buying the CPU retail boxed. I'll want l to fall back on Intel if it doesn't work. We've got a couple computer stores closeby where I can get accessories if I need them.

As far as the burner, it's mostly going to be used for cd's - 2 track mixdowns, copies. And yes, I probably will be using some cheap media for a lot of that!

Hey Newton,

If you have no intention of burning DVD's I would get a Plextor Premium CD/RW. It's what most ME's use and is the best CD/RW bar none. If you intend to burn DVD's however the suggestion of the Pioneer is a good one. The Plextor 708A was the best DVD/RW but unfortunatley is no longer available. The Plextors are finicky with cheap media for good reason because they are really made for pros who don't usually skimp on media so the more consumer friendly Pioneer may be a better choice if you want to be able to use budget media.

I also agree with the statement about not just shooping for price. Newegg has some of the best prices on the web but I can't speak for their support should you need it. Aberdeen on the other hand has some of the best support on the web. If your a first timer you may want to consider support over price. I use both as well as Zip Zoom Fly on the Web and Microcenter for local stuff and am very happy with all.

You really don't need XP Pro so save your money.

I would get the Corsair, I build a lot of gaming rigs also and there's just nothing out there that is as stable under OC as the Corsair. Not that you'll be OCing your DAW but if you do at least the memory will be up to the task. I also like the OCZ stuff.

Good Luck and let us know how the build goes

i am lucky since i am now a computer reseller, my supplier lets me do cash deals so no sales tax or use tax for me. NOw i am able to get AWESOME pricing on computer equipment so if any body wants hardware pr systems built let me know!

im about to build a new system

i deciding whether i shlud go with the new LGA 775 or 478.

what does everyone think?

jsanfilippo5 wrote: i am lucky since i am now a computer reseller, my supplier lets me do cash deals so no sales tax or use tax for me. NOw i am able to get AWESOME pricing on computer equipment so if any body wants hardware pr systems built let me know!

im about to build a new system

i deciding whether i shlud go with the new LGA 775 or 478.

what does everyone think?

stay away from the 775 the new PCI-E sucks for audio.
1) there is no, nor will there be in the near future(18 months-2yrs) a PCI-E audio card. (at least not from the top 5)

2) the faster the PCI-E video card you use the worse the performance gets for audio.

the PCI-E is not yet properly implimented, it uses a PCI to PCI-E bridge rather than a PCI-E controller (which is the proper Spec)
which sucks the bandwidth from the SM bus leaving little room for I/O

P4 is End of Life anyway. AMD is a better choice.
AMD with PCI-E (nforce 4) is even worse than the P4.

if you decide to go 775 make sure the video card is the lowest you can get like ati X300 or nvidia 6200 or less.
at least it will work as good as the older 875 chipset.

DDR2 much ado about nothing, higher latency than DDR which equates to higher latency for audio especially sampling.

now if your doing video editing then it rocks, providing your not using a PCI accelerator card like a Matrox RTx100.

Prescotts are not near as warm as when they first came out although still much warmer than AMD. standard cooling (or a zalman 7000) work just fine without issues.

congrats on your reseller status, unfortunately you will find prices on the internet cheaper than you can buy alot of stuff from your vendor ( or at least at your cost) hard to compete with your vendor.

Scott
ADK
ADK

moonz wrote: Using the secondary IDE channel slave position for your primary optical drive would certainly be the least desirable cabling position, even according to the instructions that come with optical drives...Plextor...NEC...Pioneer...Sony....you name it.

.

this was once true years ago, long past mattering anymore, both windows and newer controllers no longer care where drives or opticals go.
same goes for having your audio drive on the same chain as your OS. (one would assume Sata audio drives) no longer matters with mobos 2 yrs or newer.

Scott
ADK

Well...I guess you'd better clue the people at Plextor to this so they can stop wasting their time printing this information

they have to allow for people who have old computers
try calling thier tech support and asking

I don't presume to know what the "so-called" top 5 has in the works for the next two years.

i do, as its my life and livelyhood i had better.

And...I don't believe for a moment that every single motherboard manufacturer has mindlessly bought in to a technology( PCI Express), that by ADK Audio's account, is totally lame.

1) dont put words in my mouth. you need to re- read my post i was very clear it rocks for video which would include gaming. and it will work as good as the older agp given the right setup. (read little use of PCI-E by lower speed card)

2) Pro audio computers at best make up 3% of total sales (this includes mac) how important do you think pro audio is in the manufacturers eyes?

3) if you put forth as much energy researching as you do debating something you dont understand you might realize a few things such as
the majority of computers for the masses (including office computers) make up about 85 % of total computers sold.
have no need for any PCI add on cards, high I/O bandwidth, good firefire thruput ETC. in fact a good majority dont neven need video beyond onboard. and PCI-E works great for them especially the gamers.
of the other 15%
5% will be video editing pro-sumer and professional (this number is growing rapidly) of which PCI-E works great (especially 3D modeling) but most would be dual systems.
the rest are servers which generally have onboard video and not PCI-E where high i/o is important. and again are dual.

so my friend, the manucfacturers could give a rats butt about a few audio guys who now have to buy dual systems. they are addressing the needs of the masses.

4) if you took the time to read about the PCI-E spec instead of debating it without knowledge you would see it is incorrectly implimented. and is why its not working so hot on a single bus board.

5) from what experiance are you drawing your knowledge?
are you actually armed to debate this?
how many of these systems have you personally tested?
how many differant motherboards, video cards, single and SLI, applications for both audio and video? both Intel and AMD?
and i dont mean a few tracks of audio on traction or video on windows movie maker.

6) i have and its what i do. we are always on bleeding edge and first to market with what works. after alot of what dont work.

i have tested 4 manufacturers (7motherboards) AMD Nforce 4 and Via with PCIe included multiples from each such as single and SLI
(no dual optis with PCI-E yet) tyan 2895 coming soon

over 20 intel motherboards Single and Dual Xeon, single and SLI video from chessy ECS to $600 Supermicro boards.

over 10 differant PCI-E video cards, single and SLI,

they were tested with
Sonar, Samplitude, Nuendo, Sound forge
and i dont mean some little whimp test but 100 tracks with effects such as waves IR, and sampling such as Spectrasonics, Giga, EWQL. Halion.

for video editing they were tested with
Avid, Pinnacle, Adobe (hate it) Vegas,DPS, VT4,
Lightwave, 3D studio max, Softimage just to name a few.

this whole PCI-E thing has wore us out.

so in case you didnt catch it let me repeat
AMD PCI-E for Pro audio sucks, Intel with a low vid card works,
for almost anything else that dont require PCI cards it rocks.
(FYI in case you dont know PCI would also include firewire as it sits on the same Bus)

which means for 97% of computer buyers its a wonderful thing.

its the other 3% i am worried about.

Scott
ADK

Do you see any problem with using this "ATI AIW RADEON 9600 Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, CATV/Video Out/Video In, 8X AGP, Model "ALL-IN-WONDER 9600" w/ REMOTE -RETAIL"
sound card? It has some features I could really use, like the S-video inputs.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-345&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

if your using Sonar forget it.
other software can have issues with the AIW due to the audio.
you can turn it on and off switching from audio to video work.
a real pain.

i would put a standard video card in and buy a Canopus ADVC 110.

what video software are you wanting to use.

Scott
ADK

Scott,
I'm basically wanting to turn some videos I have into DVD's. Figured I could do that using this card. Not sure if it comes with the Software I need. Also, I'll have a full blown version of Nero which has some video capabilities. And, I will probably be using Cubase SX3.
Thanks,
Paul

Hey guys,

What is the skinny on PCI-Express 16X and these Audio Issues? I have a Shuttle XPC SB-83G5 with the 915G/ICH6R chipset. I am currently using on-board 915 video, and I run Nuendo 2.1 with an RME Multiface + HDSP PCI card. I have NOT had any issues yet - but I DID plan on adding a PCI-Express 16x video card to lessen my processor load, and to free up that extra RAM the onboard video reserves.

Should I not even consider a PCI-Express 16x video card? I would really like to have dual monitors and an extended desktop - but if it is going to crash Nuendo, or freak out the PCI bus, I'd obvioulsy make due with the onboard video.

I'm not exactly hurting for Processing Power or RAM - but you can never have too much IMO. FWIW - The 915 + P4 3.0 775 have been rock solid with the onboard video, and my Audio hardware/software (this is an Audio optimized DAW BTW). Not one crash (fingers crossed). I rarely get anywhere near 50% processor utilization! Even with On-board video!

Scott, Big_D - what's the deal-io?

:cool:

HI Randy,
if you use a very low powered PCI-E like an X300 LE, or nvidia 6200 it should be ok.
the idea is the lower the better,
the faster the card is the more it sucks life out of he PCI bandwidth
killing you I/O

Scott
ADK

Got it. Thanks for your reply :) . The Radeon X300 based cards are what I was looking at (for an extended despktop more than anything), and they are in the ~$70 range. Is it also safe to assume that a Dedicated DAW only running Audio Software will not have much video bandwidth required, as all we are seeing is 2-D graphics w/o any sophisticated rendering going on?

What exactly would a more powerful PCI-Express 16x card (like the Radeon x800) do in such an application? Does just having the faster PCI-Express 16x card on the bus reap havoc on audio bandwidth - or would this only be true in high-video demand type applications? Just curious. I have no intention of getting anything above the x300, but I am curious what effetcs faster PCI-Express cards have - even when their bandwidth is just idling along for simple 2-D graphics stuff.

Thanks! :cool:

What exactly would a more powerful PCI-Express 16x card (like the Radeon x800) do in such an application? Does just having the faster PCI-Express 16x card on the bus reap havoc on audio bandwidth - or would this only be true in high-video demand type applications?

Randy, According to what I've seen from Scott's posts just having the faster PCI-E card on the bus will degrade the performance of anything else on the bus due to it's higher bandwidth requirements. I believe that is why he recommends the slower cards (less demand on the PCI bus) as apps don't seem to be a factor it's the card.

I can't confirm any of this as my experiences with PCI-E are limited to gaming and video editing systems but I'm sure Scott's info is very accurate. I can tell you that PCI-E has not performed anywhere near it's potential in any realm yet. For gaming it has shown only modest performance gains over AGP but it is the future for video as well as audio. It's going to take a little time for everything to catch up (remember it's still in it's infancy) but when it does I think it's performance should blow us all away.

BTW, Scott I want to thank you for passing on the PCI-E info to all of us as well as your other contributions to the forum. You have doubtless saved many from hours, days or weeks of frustation with DAW specific issues that only someone who builds them for a living could help them avoid. Welcome Aboard!

HI Randy,
Big-D hit it spot on.

Big-D,

thanks glad to share my headaches to save others from it. 8-)

Scott
ADK

Newton wrote: My goal is to have a very quiet machine as I will be doing some tracking in the same room. This is the first computer I’ve built. Hopefully I have enough technical skill to put this thing together. :lol: After spending some time researching previous posts on RO (which have been a great source of info!), this is what I’ve come up with:

--Antec SLK3000B case
--Nexus Real Silent 120 mm case fan added to the front
--SeaSonic Super Silencer 400W ATX Power Supply
--Asus P4P800-E Deluxe mobo with Intel 865PE chipset. Also looked at Asus P4C800- E with 875P chipset. Any real advantage of getting the latter?
--Intel Pentium 4- 3.0 GHz CPU; Socket 478 - Bus 800 MHz - 1 MB L2 Cache
--Zalman 7700CU - CPU Cooler
--Either Corsair, Kingston, or Crucial 1GB PC-3200 DDR 400MHz;
--Samsung Spinpoint 160 Gig SATA Quiet Hard Drive, 8MB Cache; #SP1614C for music files
--Samsung Spinpoint 80 Gig SATA Quiet Hard Drive, 8MB Cache, # SP0812C for Applications
--Radeon 9250 128MB Quiet Video Card;128MB Dual Head; Supports AGP 8X
--Plextor PX-712A/SW; DVD/RW & CD/RW; includes PlexTools Professional, and compatible software from Roxio
--Qty. 2 - V7 Videoseven L17PS / 17-Inch / 14ms / 1280 x 1024 / LCD Monitors
--Sony 3.5 Inch 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive
--RME Digiface and PCI card
--Cubase SX3 software

Does everything here look compatible? Any areas of improvement needed? David French, Big_D, anyone…feedback Pleeeze!
My front end is a Yamaha AW4416 (Using Sytek MPX-4A pre’s) and will use ADAT link to the RME. Monitors are Yammy MPS5’s. May get UAD1 studio pak DSP card in the future – when cash allows. Thanks!

8-)

Newton,

PCIE works great here! Get an LGA775 system board that supports the new Intel 600 series CPUs with 64-Bit support and 2MB cache. We are having great performance and stability.

My best.

Guy Cefalu
SONICA-X, LLC

Hello,

PCI Express DOES NOT SUCK FOR AUDIO! Here is why;

1). High performance video is irelevant for audio.

2). The alternative to NON PCIE is AMD or outdated 865/875 intel chisets with the 448 socket which will only work up to 3.4GHz.

3). LGA775 PCIE boards will take the 3.6GHz P4, the 3.8GHz P4 and the new 600 series 64 Bit Intel P4. All of these CPUs will perform better when running audio tests than any 865/875 non PCIE systems (tested in our lab time after time). So if you need better performance than what your 865/875/AGP system has to offer or you want to be compatible with X64 which will offer even better audio performance, then PCI Express / LGA775 is the way to go.

4). The movement to 64 bit computing and PCIE audio cards is going to happen a lot quicker than what most people belive.

Guy Cefalu
SONICA-X

Guy,
SHeesh!

PCI-E for AMD and Audio does suck.

for P4 as i have stated with a lower vid card works.
P4 and a higher PCI-E vid card does suck.

if your going to run around praising Intels 915/925 at least tell people how they will work and how they will NOT work.

so some poor guy doesnt go out and buy a 915 board and pokes a X800 in there thinking it will work for audio based on your post.

"""will perform better when running audio tests than any 865/875 non PCIE systems """

0-3% is better? at hundreds more cost.

i like the 15% improvement the AMD 939 (Nforce 3) gets. and at a lower price.

1). High performance video is irelevant for audio.

well some guys do video editing as well, and cant afford 2 computers

2). The alternative to NON PCIE is AMD

Exactly! faster better.

or you can buy the new asus board which still does AGP with the new 775 processors and have both! (if your AMD Phobic)

anyone interested in reading a slew of posted benchmarks that show the facts.

http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=121

a long but informative read with
Single AMD, P4 new and old, as well as dual Xeon, Opteron and MAC G5s. a very well rounded out set of numbers.

the test used is the most heavy hitting test i have seen to date that is still downloadable.
it will cripple anything over 2 yrs old past 1024 buffer.
however it requires Nuendo/Cubase.

Scott
ADK

ADK audio wrote: Guy,
SHeesh!

PCI-E for AMD and Audio does suck.

for P4 as i have stated with a lower vid card works.
P4 and a higher PCI-E vid card does suck.

if your going to run around praising Intels 915/925 at least tell people how they will work and how they will NOT work.

so some poor guy doesnt go out and buy a 915 board and pokes a X800 in there thinking it will work for audio based on your post.

"""will perform better when running audio tests than any 865/875 non PCIE systems """

0-3% is better? at hundreds more cost.

i like the 15% improvement the AMD 939 (Nforce 3) gets. and at a lower price.

1). High performance video is irelevant for audio.

well some guys do video editing as well, and cant afford 2 computers

2). The alternative to NON PCIE is AMD

Exactly! faster better.

or you can buy the new asus board which still does AGP with the new 775 processors and have both! (if your AMD Phobic)

anyone interested in reading a slew of posted benchmarks that show the facts.

http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=121

a long but informative read with
Single AMD, P4 new and old, as well as dual Xeon, Opteron and MAC G5s. a very well rounded out set of numbers.

the test used is the most heavy hitting test i have seen to date that is still downloadable.
it will cripple anything over 2 yrs old past 1024 buffer.
however it requires Nuendo/Cubase.

Scott
ADK

Scott,

funny how you change my wording, continue to parise all AMD64 related technologies and fail to mention the new Intel 600 64-Bit on a PCIE board which is a great performer.

0-3% is BS and you are misleading people as we can get 15% PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT with the 3.8 and 600 3.6 on any PCI Express board.

You also inflate the cost of these processors here and the Nuendo forum in favor of the AMD64.

As a matter of fact everything you say or do has something to do with praising AMD64 over Intel. I have a very good idea why and I don't really care but at least if you are going to go arround all pro-audio forums spreading information to help your business do it with 100% accurate information.

PCIE does not really "suck for audio" as you say, it is the future and it is here to stay!

And, the fact that PCIE works better on the Intel platform than on the new AMD64 related chipsets is a good thing!

Guy Cefalu
SONICA-X

how about we try this Guy.
simple yes and no answers!
will the PCI-E Intel preform well for audio with a X800 or 6800?

(insert answer here)

if not kindly mention that in forums so people will know what to buy or not buy. (for those building thier own)

have you posted your test results like everyone else has in the forum previously posted? with the new wonder system you talk about with a 15% increase
(insert answer here)

since you havent kindly do so with no more than a 3.4 so its a fair test to the old P4 3.4. i see Tafarkn's posts about the same.
although i will take on your 3.8 with a 3800 AMD anyday.

was the best score turned in by a single processor an AMD?
(insert here)

dont forget people can read the posts.

are the new Intel 64 bit 2meg cache processor more than thier equal speed Prescott conterparts?

(inset here)

dont get me started on intels attempt at 64bit either. i wont bother going there.

do the new intel chips outperform thier EQUAL speed old conterparts by 15%

(insert here)

this whole thing is beyond absurd.
over and over again i have stated:

Intel PCI-E with a low power vid card works as good as its EQUAL older conterpart and 875. NO BETTER. 0 -3% is a better thing?
and considering the cost it aint.

it sucks with a higher powered vid card.

AMD with PCI-E sucks for Audio period no salvation here.

AMD 939 on Nforce 3 outperform P4 regardless of platform.

and this last part is what sticks in your craw (sp?)

you dont sell them so you run around trying to defend PCI-E.

i dont disagree that it works as good as the older P4 just not better.

so unravel your panties dude.

the numbers dont lie, and these are numbers posted by un-biased individual users. not someone with an agenda.
when i post my numbers they line up with other similar systems.
i test and sell both AMD and Intel, Single and Dual.
so i know the numbers on all of them.
you only sell an Intel PCI-E single system,where do your numbers come from past that system?

try this again.

i do not say Intel PCI-E sucks for audio (with a low powered video)

i do say Intel PCI-E with a high power vid card DOES SUCK!

i have tried to do this in a nice way but you wont have it.
so back off, this is making us both look like idiots and unprofessional at that.

Scott
ADK

ADK audio wrote: how about we try this Guy.
simple yes and no answers!

will the PCI-E Intel preform well for audio with a X800 or 6800?

(The X800 performs just as well. The 6800 not tested as we don't do Nvidia video cards. Your opinion on the video card taking system bandwith is pure speculation and not a fact. Your statement that says that the PCIE bus is wired incorrectly is also pure speculation and has made an Intel senior engineer have LOL just yesterday. This is what I meant when I said that if you are going to promote your business on forums it has to be with 100% accurate information an not with pure speculation. Us including the ATI 300X video card with our systems has nothing to do with PCIE performance but with low heat generation and passive cooling in order to keep the video card quiet)

have you posted your test results like everyone else has in the forum previously posted? with the new wonder system you talk about with a 15% increase.

(Again, you continue to change my wording and fail to understand my point. First, tell this forum that the original test has been done with the Thonex test. Next, disclose that this is a VST test only without any audio tracks and not any where close to a real life situation. Then disclose, that our X2 system performed just as well as the original P4/875 test. Therefore, your original information shared on forums stating that PCIE "sucks" for audio is incorrect!

Next, there is no wonder system but your efforts to ridicule my opinion must be getting on the way. What I have been telling you, is that the Thonex test performs better as the clock rate goes up and that the 3.6, 3.8, and 600 EMT64 CPUs run the Thonex test even better than the original test with 15% performance improvement. That is less CPU usage in Nuendo when performing the same test peformed on the original P4/875. Again, it proves that PCIE does not suck for audio.)

Now here is where

since you havent kindly do so with no more than a 3.4 so its a fair test to the old P4 3.4. i see Tafarkn's posts about the same.
although i will take on your 3.8 with a 3800 AMD anyday.

was the best score turned in by a single processor an AMD?

(Again, you and your AMD vs. Intel. This topic is about you saying that PCI Express "sucks for audio". Those test results are no longer valid as no one has posted any results with the new Intel 64-Bit processors and 2MB cache.)

dont forget people can read the posts.

(Yes, I know people can read this and that is why I am here)

are the new Intel 64 bit 2meg cache processor more than thier equal speed Prescott conterparts?

(Of course! They will run X64 which will bring about 20% performance improvement when the dust settles. Yes, when you run the Thonex test! Try it yourself.)

dont get me started on intels attempt at 64bit either. i wont bother going there.

(Here we go again, AMD better than Intel. This wouldn't have anyting to do with ADK jumping on the Steinber/AMD wagon?)

do the new intel chips outperform thier EQUAL speed old conterparts by 15%

(Again that is not what I said! My statement is that " A 3.8GHz PCIE intel based system will run the Thonex test on Nuendo 15% better than the original 3.2/874 test posted on the Nuendo forum. Again, PCIE does not "suck for audio".)

this whole thing is beyond absurd.
over and over again i have stated:

Intel PCI-E with a low power vid card works as good as its EQUAL older conterpart and 875. NO BETTER. 0 -3% is a better thing?
and considering the cost it aint.

(I am not saying that is works better. I am saying that it does not suck)

it sucks with a higher powered vid card.

(speculation)

AMD with PCI-E sucks for Audio period no salvation here.

(agree) and (is this caused by the video card too! I don't think so)

AMD 939 on Nforce 3 outperform P4 regardless of platform.

(do not agree)

and this last part is what sticks in your craw (sp?)

you dont sell them so you run around trying to defend PCI-E.

(Scott please don't make me sick, we can sell AMD64 systems any time we want and we have 4 test systems in the lab. We don't go arround defending PCIE. We share truth in information as we are not biased to Steinberg's marketing plans nor we advertise our business in forums).

i dont disagree that it works as good as the older P4 just not better.

so unravel your panties dude.

(Are you a business man? Interesting choice of words)

the numbers dont lie, and these are numbers posted by un-biased individual users. not someone with an agenda.
when i post my numbers they line up with other similar systems.
i test and sell both AMD and Intel, Single and Dual.
so i know the numbers on all of them.
you only sell an Intel PCI-E single system,where do your numbers come from past that system?

(again Scott, are you serious? You actually think that because we only sell the Intel platform we have not tested or have in-house AMD64 systems? We know what the numbers are.

(Scott, the only one with an agenda is you and that is why you are in every forum sharing information with the ultimate goal to promote your business. Just make sure that the information you share is actual fact and not speculation or that it has nohing to do with the AMD/Steinberg marketing program.)

try this again.

i do not say Intel PCI-E sucks for audio (with a low powered video)

i do say Intel PCI-E with a high power vid card DOES SUCK!

i have tried to do this in a nice way but you wont have it.
so back off, this is making us both look like idiots and unprofessional at that.

(So I get it now, when you disagree with ADK's difacto standard you are unprofessional!

(SCOTT, last Monday a customer called and told us that ADK told him not to buy a PCIE system as they really don't perform well and that the only good solution was to get an NF3 AMD64 system. The problem is that he was a GigaStudio 3 customer and the Gigastudio 3 READ ME FIRST insert in the box states that Gigastudio 3 does not support 64 Bit processors. The guy was totally confused.)

(For as long as the information presented here is incorrect or based in pure speculation we are not backing off)

Guy Cefalu
SONICA-X

Scott
ADK

i am done wasting my time with you.

only thing i will comment on is Giga.

i bet you told him "correct it dont work on AMD 64 systems" huh
the manual also say no support for HT, which is fixed in 3.04.
also says no dual support, works great on duals..

Dave Govett has one of our AMD 939's
600 voices with a 3500
for those who dont know, Dave wrote/programed Giga.

this guy has 3
http://www.btmusic.com/frameset_home.html
and i could keep listing like this.

call giga and ask if it runs on AMD 64.

im done

Edit: so much for AMD not supported
tascam/Giga just changed thier webpage to remove where it stated: "AMD 64 not supported" as well Duals not supported
http://www.tascamgiga.com/GS3KnownIssues.php

thanks Pete/Tascam!

Scott
ADK

Woe There Boys....

Man, I haven't surfaced here since the Opus days , but I thought I would poke my head up after reading this free for all.

Firstly, you boys both know me as Tafkarn on the current Nuendo forum, yep , JayDee and Tafkarn are one , so yes Guy we do have a bit of history , I still remember you from the Rockingham Sound days... Your Hype level hasn't changed much I must say. :-)

Now lets get down to it !

I am un- ashamedly an Intel Lobbyist, as both of you would know, but for Heavens sake Guy , your blurred rhetoric is not doing me any favours , let me tell you. I have done extensive testing and posted all of my results on the Nuendo forum in regards to the current Intel Based AGP/PCIe/478/775 systems. All comparable testing has been done with a 3.2 GHz chip of various flavours, 478 , 775 500 Series, and 775 EM64T 600 series chip.

The performance gain for the 600 Series chip is around 5% for a similar clocked chip. Your Performance claims of 15% is for a 3.2 to a 3.8 clock increase, nothing more, and it isn't anything to sing about, now is it. Quite embarrassing actually. Mind you , all of my 3.2 Systems out performed your 3.4 PCIe rigs, so I'm hoping I can sqeeze a little more out of mine. :-)

The causes for the bottlenecking on the PCIe systems could be a combination of things, mostly due in part to the implementation of the spec into the current boards. I commented earlier on the Nuendo Forum so if I may, I'll do a little cut and paste:

"The issue may well still be the way the PCIe architecture is actually being implemented in this transitionary stage .

The cards themselves may also be using differing approaches to how they actually interact with the whole PCIe/PCI architecture of the boards. Which in itself is another can of worms at the moment, as it seems that they have not implemented the PCIe spec as expected. "

Hmmm, I didn't see you throw your hat in the ring on that thread ...

Now if your so cock sure what the actual situation is, how about you get together with your beloved Intel Buddy , or your limitless resources in the computer industry and give us a clearer indication to what is actually going on , instead of turning this into an idiotic and un-necassary platform war. !!

BTW: What the hell is the AMD/Steinberg Marketing program you keep referring to ?I have seen no official statement from Steinberg for supporting either side over the other, it would be ludicrous on their part to even attempt it.

Also, its a little hypocrytical to go attacking Scott for advertising on the Forums, when you are doing the same thing, don't you think ??

Either way, no good will come of this for either of you, it looks tacky , unprofessional, and resolves nothing when the subject matter is being approached by over ventilated and blurred rhetoric from both sides of the fence.

Now Guy, if you are wondering who I am , well lets just say that I may not have the total years in the Computer industry as you, but in so far as providing Professional PC DAW solutions, I have you more than matched. You want to cut heads with me on Intel Based DAW performance... step on up..., I can do it without coming off sounding like a car salesman, and with out the hyperbole .

Try it sometime ;-)

J.D

JayDee wrote: Woe There Boys....

Man, I haven't surfaced here since the Opus days , but I thought I would poke my head up after reading this free for all.

Firstly, you boys both know me as Tafkarn on the current Nuendo forum, yep , JayDee and Tafkarn are one , so yes Guy we do have a bit of history , I still remember you from the Rockingham Sound days... Your Hype level hasn't changed much I must say. :-)

Now lets get down to it !

I am un- ashamedly an Intel Lobbyist, as both of you would know, but for Heavens sake Guy , your blurred rhetoric is not doing me any favours , let me tell you. I have done extensive testing and posted all of my results on the Nuendo forum in regards to the current Intel Based AGP/PCIe/478/775 systems. All comparable testing has been done with a 3.2 GHz chip of various flavours, 478 , 775 500 Series, and 775 EM64T 600 series chip.

The performance gain for the 600 Series chip is around 5% for a similar clocked chip. Your Performance claims of 15% is for a 3.2 to a 3.8 clock increase, nothing more, and it isn't anything to sing about, now is it. Quite embarrassing actually. Mind you , all of my 3.2 Systems out performed your 3.4 PCIe rigs, so I'm hoping I can sqeeze a little more out of mine. :-)

The causes for the bottlenecking on the PCIe systems could be a combination of things, mostly due in part to the implementation of the spec into the current boards. I commented earlier on the Nuendo Forum so if I may, I'll do a little cut and paste:

"The issue may well still be the way the PCIe architecture is actually being implemented in this transitionary stage .

The cards themselves may also be using differing approaches to how they actually interact with the whole PCIe/PCI architecture of the boards. Which in itself is another can of worms at the moment, as it seems that they have not implemented the PCIe spec as expected. "

Hmmm, I didn't see you throw your hat in the ring on that thread ...

Now if your so cock sure what the actual situation is, how about you get together with your beloved Intel Buddy , or your limitless resources in the computer industry and give us a clearer indication to what is actually going on , instead of turning this into an idiotic and un-necassary platform war. !!

BTW: What the hell is the AMD/Steinberg Marketing program you keep referring to ?I have seen no official statement from Steinberg for supporting either side over the other, it would be ludicrous on their part to even attempt it.

Also, its a little hypocrytical to go attacking Scott for advertising on the Forums, when you are doing the same thing, don't you think ??

Either way, no good will come of this for either of you, it looks tacky , unprofessional, and resolves nothing when the subject matter is being approached by over ventilated and blurred rhetoric from both sides of the fence.

Now Guy, if you are wondering who I am , well lets just say that I may not have the total years in the Computer industry as you, but in so far as providing Professional PC DAW solutions, I have you more than matched. You want to cut heads with me on Intel Based DAW performance... step on up..., I can do it without coming off sounding like a car salesman, and with out the hyperbole .

Try it sometime ;-)

J.D

JayDee,

personal attacks on me or our company don't really answer any
of the questions I ask and contribute to the free for all. You know what, we are used to attacks as we have been putting up with them since day one. May be, we ask to many questions and set new standars on DAW pricing. :)

Again, this is not about AMD vs Intel. This is about PCIE and
the comments made public on
forums, "sucks" , "horrid" , "wired incorrectly" etc. :shock:

This is not about who makes the most powerful DAW so I don't
have a need to take you on or about years of experience in
this industry. Perhaps you have misinterpreted my character
and if I ever have insulted you in any way, I give you my
apologies as I am not here to make enemies. :?

I am here because I believe that before a technology is put
down on a forum that thousands of people read the information
has to be 100% correct and unbiased. I don't believe that
this is the case here so I ask questions, I don't get answers
and you call me a car sales man. :x

Yes, you are correct we should not continue this free for all
so I will stop. 8-)

But, you are wrong on two accounts;

1. We don't use the forums as a method of advertising. The
amount of postings we do are minimal compared to other
parties and you should really know that. Come on look at the date we joined this forum Mar 09, 2005. :wink:

2. Yes, it is ludicrous and it is 100% true. Anyone pushing
Nuendo is 100% AMD biased for political reasons and that is
why all Steinberg products have disappeared from our catalog.
Actually is not only AMD biased but dealer biased too and
totally unfair to other dealers who have promoted their
products for years. This is 100% true. We will not sell the
products of a company that when I customer calls them for
advice they send the customer to only one company. Other
companies and I will use Cakewalk as an example have a much
more professional method/process of referring customers to DAW
builders. :shock:

"Edit: so much for AMD not supported
tascam/Giga just changed thier webpage to remove where it stated: "AMD 64 not supported" as well Duals not supported
http://www.tascamgiga.com/GS3KnownIssues.php

Scott
ADK"

I don't know what this statement really means but they forgot to edit the "DATE" as this information was not true in September. Small details!. Furthermore, if some one came to the rescue at the last minute and edited the file to help your case, then it is another example of bias in this industry. If I am wrong, then I give my apologies to the parties involved. I hope I am wrong as the moral and legal implications are many. :?

Finally, I would like to tell you that you might be confusing
hype with marketing and that every business needs marketing
to sell products. I can honestly say with a clear conscience
that all information on our web site is 100% accurate to the
best of my knowledge. :D

My best,

Guy Cefalu
SONICA-X

personal attacks on me or our company don't really answer any of the questions I ask and contribute to the free for all. You know what, we are used to attacks as we have been putting up with them since day one. May be, we ask to many questions and set new standars on DAW pricing. :

Guy,

If my intention was to personally attack you or your company, I would have gone further than suggesting your approach is reminisant of a car sales man. Its not the questions that are being asked, its the manner in which it is discussed, the hyperbole that is attached , and the blurred rhetoric that is the result. This is of no benefit to anyone. :-)

But, you are wrong on two accounts;

1. We don't use the forums as a method of advertising. The
amount of postings we do are minimal compared to other
parties and you should really know that. Come on look at the date we joined this forum Mar 09, 2005. :wink:

2. Yes, it is ludicrous and it is 100% true. Anyone pushing
Nuendo is 100% AMD biased for political reasons and that is
why all Steinberg products have disappeared from our catalog.
Actually is not only AMD biased but dealer biased too and
totally unfair to other dealers who have promoted their
products for years. This is 100% true. We will not sell the
products of a company that when I customer calls them for
advice they send the customer to only one company. Other
companies and I will use Cakewalk as an example have a much
more professional method/process of referring customers to DAW
builders. :shock:

1. Anytime you post on a forum displaying the details of the company you represent , you are advertising my friend, which ever way you want to cut it. I personally choose not draw focus to my DAW company when I post , for reasons I am not going to go into here, however, if anyone is interested enough to want to know more about me or my business operation, I have no issue in communicating with them offline. The recent displays by both you and Scott on this and the Nuendo forum have done little to further your respective causes.

2. I have heard of no official statement from Steinberg in regards to the AMD liason, and if the local representatives were to follow suit, they would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces. I'll make some enquirys next week to see if I can get an angle on it.

BTW:I'm not interested in fuelling the AMD -Intel debate on this thread , but suffice to say that blurring performance figures is not helping anyones cause. You call it marketing , I call it hyperbole. I have posted comparable figures on the current Intel chips , and the figures speak for themselves, the PCIe systems with the right combination of MB/PCIe graphics are equal in performance to the AGP variants for the most part.

You need to acknowledge that there are also i865/AGP/ 775 solutions that are also a viable alternative for those not wanting to jump onto the PCIe wagon just yet, instead of dismissing the platform as dead ended. I still offer these solutions and they are proving to be awesome. Sticking to the facts instead of coming off sounding like an Intel running add is the key here. Remember Mate, I'm on your side of the fence, I have had a succesful business model based on Intel/Intel solutions for close to a decade, the differance is I am far from an Apologist for the Evil Empire, so I tend to keep the hype level down.. :-)

Finally,

The situation with the implementation of the PCIe spec in this transitionary stage is not as clear cut as you would have us believe. If you can actually give us a clearer indication of what is at play, then please do so, but just denying that there are issues, as I stated above, is of no benefit to anyone.

And with that, I will graciously bow out of this debate , I'm sorry if you feel as if I am personally attacking you and your company, that was not the intention, my sole reason for posting was only to stop the rot... This type of online shite fighting should be left to the over ventilated junior lobbyists, not seasoned professionals :-)

Peace

J.D

OK guys, I've just gotten all my hardware in. I bought what I could from ZipZoomFly (free 2-day shipping!), and most of the rest from Newegg. The Antec case is coming from Chieftec today.
The OS Hard Drive is an IDE, Seagate 7200.7 and the audio file HD is 160 GB SATA Seagate. Should I hook up just the IDE and load XP onto it, and then hook up the SATA HD afterwards? Will windows have any trouble detecting my SATA HD? I like the idea of a 10 GB "scratch audio" partition on the OS HD, as mentioned in MusicXP.net.
The IDE should have the jumper in the Master position, and the DVD/RW will have the jumper in Slave position, right?
Any other tips concerning setting up the HD's?
Thanks,
Paul

I wonder.. Have anyone tried disabling Hardware acceleration on i915 systems?