I think you would be set with a pair of 414s. They are industry standards that can be used on a whole bunch of other stuff too.

I've used the soundelux elux 251 (elam 251 remake) and they sound freaking amazing.

good luck. there are a million cheapie mics people will tell you sound great, but if you want to get the "it" sound used in professional studios, i would recommend the 414s.

steve

just curious how'd ya come up w/ the u195?

I always like the sm81's as overheads, they aren't cheap and also used by pros

Soundelux U195's absolutely rock. You will not need any EQ with those microphone. If you want it airy and brighter, leave the setting normal. If you want a fatter low frequency, hit the FAT button (and put the 30hz roll off on too, or it's a little to much in the subs). 414's and SM81's cannot even come close to competing with U195's if you want pro results (IMHO of course). I'm not trying to be mean or sardonic, but I wouldn't put my name on the recording if I had to use the AKGs or Shures (and no I don't sell AKG or Shure, and I don't want to...although I really like the SM-7b on amps, and the D112 on floor tom, but not kick).

I've never really like the 414's on O/H. They're OK, but there's better. I like c451's or pretty much anything from Earthworks. If you have a good room, you should at least consider some Earthworks.

billblues
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:51 am Post subject:

just curious how'd ya come up w/ the u195?

I was just about to order one, I`ve been searching a bit, reading up on the U195. They seem to work on just about anything.. So I though I`d might order two and use them as OH`s as well..

I forgot to mention... Up until now I`ve been using c451... And most recently Milab WM-44.. The sound is ok... or actually quite good, I kind of like the WM-44.. But I want to step up with the big boys and use large diagram condencers as O/H..

I'll second the SM-81's even though they're not really standard. They handle the high freq's soooooo well without being brittle and can handle monster SPL's.

I recently purchased a u195 and so far it lives up to the hype.but being that your located overseas and soundelux is a usa co.{even though the u195 has asian capsule in it}you should do a search on gearslutz and scroll to a post by troy from s. africa I believe it was posted the 20th of june

billblues wrote: I recently purchased a u195 and so far it lives up to the hype.but being that your located overseas and soundelux is a usa co.{even though the u195 has asian capsule in it}you should do a search on gearslutz and scroll to a post by troy from s. africa I believe it was posted the 20th of june

Billblues is referring to a customer who had problems with an iFET7 microphone. The customer is located in S. Africa. Point being is that you should not buy a Soundelux from a USA dealer (and yes, that includes us), unless of course you are physically in the USA. This is because if a USA dealer sells a Soundelux outside of the US, they have to handle all repair issues on their own, without the distributors support. And this makes it hard on the customer and the dealer. So definitely find a dealer who can give you local customer service, and hopefully they'll be able to give you a loaner if need be during down time if anything breaks (which really isn't too often, the iFET7 thing is a fluke, I've sold many of those mics without a problem). I believe Europe is handled by Soundfield UK, if not they can direct you to the right place:

http://www.soundfield.com/soundelux/soundelux.php

What kind of music are you recording?

So far sine June, I've used Audix scx-25, B&K 4011, Shure KSM32, Nuemann KM 140 and Manley Reference Cardioid... all with great results. Depending on the track, I might even throw up some SM57s. Don't think one set of overheads is a do everything solution.

Look into Neumann 184's they are great for most styles and make a killer acoustic guitar pair.

I've used sm-81's quite a bit and I can't say that they are a good choice for the scratch. A tad brittle and not very usefull on most other sources.

Chris

I'm surprised so many of you hate the 414s. I absolutely love them on overheads. not to mention putting them up on the grill of a marshall cab is an amazing sound to be heard.

I def liked the elux 251s better, but i mean, a $700 mic vs. a $4000 mic makes a big difference. I like the looks of the u195, i haven't used that one, but the soundelux mics are solid. I def want to try the ifet7. If it sounds like a real fet 47, it is worth twice the asking price.

maybe im just listening in different studios situations. I've only heard / used these mics in a couple local studios well tuned, with API consoles. they might not sound that good through mackie or lower end boards??

anyway, drums are easily my favorite to record, and as much as overheads are important, i usually am much more concerned with the room sound, and getting good sound from the room mics.

steve

rudedogg said:

...and as much as overheads are important, i usually am much more concerned with the room sound, and getting good sound from the room mics.

What are U using as Room mics?

If I buy the U195 as OH`s my main setup will be as follow:

Kick: sm91 (soon to be upgraded, maybe a ifet7..)
snare top: 421
snare bottom: milab WM-44
OH`s: 2 x U195

...and the usual 57 on tams.. If needed..

Should be sweet!!!!

rudedogg wrote: I'm surprised so many of you hate the 414s. I
maybe im just listening in different studios situations. I've only heard / used these mics in a couple local studios well tuned, with API consoles.

They have a very wooley midrange. We are talking about the B-ULS or TL-II? If we are talking about the 70's tube or solid state models, yeah, they sound great but haven't been made in 25 years.

they might not sound that good through mackie or lower end boards??

Modern 414's might not sound that good on $2500 preamps like a Vipre...or Neve, or API, or whatever. It's just variations on wooley (I love that word). Just my $.02, I think there are other mics that will sound better for the dough.

KungFuLio said:

What kind of music are you recording?

Mostly acoustic stuff.. rock, jazz... NO heavy metal (noize!!)

Atlasproaudio said:

Soundelux U195's absolutely rock. You will not need any EQ with those microphone. If you want it airy and brighter, leave the setting normal. If you want a fatter low frequency, hit the FAT button (and put the 30hz roll off on too, or it's a little to much in the subs). 414's and SM81's cannot even come close to competing with U195's if you want pro results (IMHO of course). I'm not trying to be mean or sardonic, but I wouldn't put my name on the recording if I had to use the AKGs or Shures (and no I don't sell AKG or Shure, and I don't want to...although I really like the SM-7b on amps, and the D112 on floor tom, but not kick).

Is there anything else u you can recommend, other than the U195? In the same pricerange..

What about some se1a's?
http://www.dv247.com/invt/27038
On something like ORTF configuration they sound amazing as overheads! I've tried all sorts but the ones i always come back to are the SE1a's.
Not a bad price too!

SE1a?... hmm... Even though the SE1A is probably a great mic, I was thinking more of in the 1000-1500USD pricerange. Not that I`m blowing of the SE just because it`s "cheap", But my experience is that u get what u pay for.

mixing_nic said:

...I've tried all sorts but the ones i always come back to are the SE1a's.

really? What other mics have you tried it against? If it is as good as you say, I just might have to check them out.. But as I said: U usually get what you pay for..

Twood wrote: Atlasproaudio said:

Soundelux U195's absolutely rock. You will not need any EQ with those microphone. If you want it airy and brighter, leave the setting normal. If you want a fatter low frequency, hit the FAT button (and put the 30hz roll off on too, or it's a little to much in the subs). 414's and SM81's cannot even come close to competing with U195's if you want pro results (IMHO of course). I'm not trying to be mean or sardonic, but I wouldn't put my name on the recording if I had to use the AKGs or Shures (and no I don't sell AKG or Shure, and I don't want to...although I really like the SM-7b on amps, and the D112 on floor tom, but not kick).

Is there anything else u you can recommend, other than the U195? In the same pricerange..

That would put your budget @ $2200 for a pair of mics give or take. Josephson E22's sound nice, for a little more ($2500 for the pair). They aren't 'flat' by any means (neither is the U195), but they've got a nice big pre-scooped midrange sound. Great for rock of any type. Gefell makes nice stuff too, it's more natural and 'flat', there are also no transformers in their products so that can make a difference. The M930 are large diaphragm, less around $2100 for the pair. Also their pair of small diaphragm M300 sounds good, again natural and focused. If you know the general difference in sound between LDC and SDC on overheads that pretty much explains the differences between the two. Neither is better, but they are different. LDC's sound bigger in a less real way, SDC sound a bit more accurate according to what's going on in the room. I do sell Neumann, but FWIW is not as good as the above dollar for dollar IMO.

Twood wrote: SE1a?... hmm... Even though the SE1A is probably a great mic, I was thinking more of in the 1000-1500USD pricerange. Not that I`m blowing of the SE just because it`s "cheap", But my experience is that u get what u pay for.

WTF??????

I've never actually heard someone turn down a product cuz it was too cheap (inexpensive)!!!!!!!! :shock:

Why does price matter? Why does it matter "who uses it?" What makes one mic only used by the pros and another ony an amatuer mic? What makes one a pro?

I mean, come-freakin-on!!!!

What don't you like about the mics you are using now as overheads? I know the 451s intimately and they are great overheads. What's missing that makes you want other mics? Is it just that it didn't cost enough, or that your favorite engineer isn't using that mic? Give us something...

Yes, the 195 is a beautiful mic - just about any Soundelux is a beautiful mic and will work for so many applications.

Yes, the 414 is probably the most hated and most loved mic ever. ( I fall in the "I don't particularly care for it" camp - especially the newer ones. I find it to be grainy and chunky -- is that similar to "wooley")

jonnyc wrote:
I always like the sm81's as overheads, they aren't cheap and also used by pros

This is just perpetuating the problem. "Also used by pros..."

Pros use anything and make it work. That's what makes them pros.

Stick a pro in a room with a Mackie 1202, a handfull of SM57, a cassette deck and 3 musicians and they'll come out with a good sound! They know how to work the mics and the equipment. Before you drop that kind of money on such a beautiful microphone, why don't you find out what you like about it and/or find out what is truly deficient in your set up first?

I know, I know - I'm kind of being a dick here. Don't worry, I've heard it all before. But, bear in mind, I'm only trying to point you down the right path, not piss you off.

Learn the craft - only then can you truly make sound purchasing decisions based on what you want and/or need. At which point, you won't have to defend your Behringer piece or your Oktava microphone because you'll have bought them for a reason and it worked for you so who gives a crap if someone thinks it's not good enough for their studio. In that case, they're the morons and the ones that have a $50,000 mic collection and no hit albums to their name.

Okay, I'm done now. 8-)

Jeremy

.{even though the u195 has asian capsule in it}

I thought Soundelux made their own capsules...

WOW..... eh.... ok...I dont know were to begin..

Cucco said:

Why does price matter?

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I`m not saying that "cheap" stuf nessecarily have to be bad, but in 9 out of 10 times a 2000$ mic will sound better then a 50$ mic. You cant argue with that?

Cucco said:

Why does it matter "who uses it?

Of course it matters who uses it!! If a wellrespected, "famous" studiotech, who really knows what he`s doing, recommends a piece of gear.. Then of course u`r gonna value his opinion!!!!!!!!!! U`d be a fool not to!

Cucco said:

What makes one a pro?

Good question.. I guess thats in the eye of the beholder..

Cucco said:

Pros use anything and make it work. That's what makes them pros.

Stick a pro in a room with a Mackie 1202, a handfull of SM57, a cassette deck and 3 musicians and they'll come out with a good sound! They know how to work the mics and the equipment.

Sure, a real pro can make magic with less "fancy" gear. That doesnt mean that everone should stick with a 57 and a behringer mix until they can make their recordings sound as wellproduced as... "Michael jackson"... Besides U`r missing out on a vital point here: The majority of people visiting this site LOVES GEAR!!! They love to talk about gear. They love love to think about gear. They dream about gear!! (expensive gear.. hah hah)

Cucco Said

Before you drop that kind of money on such a beautiful microphone, why don't you find out what you like about it and/or find out what is truly deficient in your set up first?

Good point, but it is often easier said then done. A lot of us live outside the big citys and dont have the chance to try out anything at all. So we put our trust in the "pros"..

Cucco said:

What don't you like about the mics you are using now as overheads? I know the 451s intimately and they are great overheads. What's missing that makes you want other mics? Is it just that it didn't cost enough, or that your favorite engineer isn't using that mic? Give us something...

I didnt have a problem with my 451s, they where just banged up after a long time on the road. (I`m a live tech, studio stuf is just my hobby, for now anyway..) When I replaced them with the Milab WM-44 I was very satisfied. The WM-44 were brighter and had a more open sound. But as a gearnut you always crave for more. For the best!!

U know what?... I`m gonna be completely honest with u. YES I admit that the price, and what my favourite tech uses, is a big influence when buying gear. and YES I admit that in a perfect world it shouldnt be that way...

Cucco said:

I know, I know - I'm kind of being a dick here. Don't worry, I've heard it all before. But, bear in mind, I'm only trying to point you down the right path, not piss you off.

Thats OK, u`r not being a dick (ok, maybe a small one..) U`r just expressing your honest opinion, and I appreciate it..

I'm afraid your post points to a very sad state of affairs in this world of audio engineering.

You've been bitten by the hype bug.

"If it's expensive, it's good; if it's cheap, it's crap."

I truly pity you and anyone else who has fallen into this horrible trap and I hope someday you find the error of your ways.

J.

If you're a live tech hobbying in the studio why not go right up the middle with a John Bonham power play and use EV PL20's?

Unique, not cheap, powerful, classic, revered, respected, and very stylish.

Just a thought.

Cucco said:

I truly pity you and anyone else who has fallen into this horrible trap and I hope someday you find the error of your ways.

Relax, Cucco... To me it seems like you take this personal... Lighten up!!!

hey again
the mic's i have tried as drum overheads include:

Neuman u87 (not bright enough.. 2nd best in my eyes though)

AKG 414 (i'm a hater btw.. to me a mic shouldn't be flat unless your measuring response!)

AKG se300b - ck91 (far to tinny for my liking)

se1a matched pair on ORTF to me rocks.. yea their cheap but then again look at something like a Behringer thats what i said.. Behringer! (ok i know you probly just ran a mile...) i know i ran from it to start, but that thing really is a good all rounder for a bright mic.. I have got some awesome natural reverbs with that thing! Cardiod/Fig 8/Omni patterns plenty of cut off and pad choice also!

Really think you under estimate less pricey microhones..
Take the sm57? One of the best snare mic's of all time.. But it isnt 6 gazillion dollars..

Twood, have you considered Earthworks mics? They are not LDC, but some of "the big boys" do use them, if that matters.

You might not live near a facility where you can test out a bunch of mics all at once, but make sure wherever you buy from you can return if you happen to not like your choice, because there is NO saying for sure that you'll like it, especially mics like the U195.

ok, i upload a couple of dry mixes..

Drum Miking -
Console : TLA Valve
Microphones -
Kick : sm57 on head, AKG 440 back of shell pointed at shell)
Snare : sm57+Sennheiser 441 Taped for top. sm81 for Snare Bottom
HiHat : sm81
Ride : AKG 451
Toms : Senn 421 on tops, Behringer B2 Pro on fig8 under tom 1+2
OH : se1a Matched Pair ORTF
Room : Behringer B2 Pro in Hallway 10cm from high wall

http://www.morestyle.net/share/mixes/10062005%20-%20Cntrl%2024%20Drums.mp3

PLEASE REMEMBER THESE ARE DRY MIXES.. NO EQ, NO DYNAMICS, NO FX JUST LEVELS

I'll try and get the other one on later..
Time for beer now though!

your raw takes sounds really good. By the way, I found a norwegian dealer for SE Electronics today. I think I`ll contact them on monday. Still hungry for the U195 though..

( http://www.audio-media.no/content/products/produktserie.asp?id=143 )