I'm sure you can make mixes that sound good on your hifi. The question is, how do those mixes sound when someone else plays them on their system? If you're recording solely for your own amusement, you may not need monitors. If you have hopes of selling or distributing the music, you need to be reasonably certain that you have a mix that will translate well on any sound system or radio station.

Home stereo (hifi) speakers may have good frequency response on paper, but unless you have an extremely expensive audiophile level system - stereo speakers tend to exaggerate the bass, or some other frequencies to give the illusion of power and clarity.

So if after that you feel like monitors would be a good idea for you, I'd suggest you save up your money as long as you can, and then find a place you might be able to hear them in-person. Take recordings you are VERY familiar with and let your ears be the final judge. A good studio monitor will be extremely accurate, and not necessarily sound flattering to the music.

This is like seeing a girl who looks pretty good across a dimly lit room through a haze of smoke - then at the end of the night someone turns on the fluorescent lights and you see what she REALLY looks like. (usually VERY disappointing)

thanks dvdhawk!!! btw, which ones would you recommend, at least for an aspiring home studio? the aim is to record my own music but to distribute it as much as possible and (hopefully) sound as nearly professional as can be...

the budget: well... maybe u$s 250 or a little bit more, but here in Argentina things are more expensive than in the States! anyway, I'd really appreciate any pointers so as to know what I should look for. what do you think about the ones I mentioned? are they worth looking for?

cheers!

ferchis:
Is that $250 for each monitor or $250 for a pair?

unfortunately... a pair.

I'll be shopping aroung tomorrow and see what I can find that fits my budget and let you all know so you can give me further help. I'll also try to listen to as many as I can

maybe I could stretch to u$s 300, but, again, here in Argentina things are not that easy... that's why I'm trying to get sth affordable that would relatively help me get the job done

I would look for KRK's, they are around $300/pair and I really like the Mackie MR5's for around the same price.
Of course I don't know what you have available there in Argentina!!
I have KRK Rokit5's and my friend has the Mackie MR5's (which I recommended he buy at the time..) and it turned out I liked the Mackie's better than my KRK's and wish I had gotten those instead....I think the Mackie's have a better bass response than my KRK's....

For US$300 you should forget it and do what the original advice was.....save that money and keep adding to it. Why do you think it is better to waste your money now than save it for a future purchase? Spray a fire extinguisher on your wallet and go take a cold shower. Really. Get to US$500 and we can at least start talking about NHTPro M-00.

djmukilteo, I see you recommended the mackie mr5s. what if I get a good deal on them? I might possibly get them for approx the same price as in the states. should I go for them and consider myself lucky? can I consider them "keepers" for the long run?

on the other hand, I promised a list of what I could get from the music shops here in Buenos Aires that were within my budget, so... here it is, my last strike...:

Tascam VL A4
Samson M3A
Samson Media one 4A
Samson M5A (starting to look expensive...)
KRK Rockit 5 (I know many here in the forum own them, though maybe out of league at the moment...)

well... that's about it. of course there were several other smaller monitors (I'm not sure whether to really consider them monitors because they looked more like multimedia pc speakers for games, etc etc), but this is more or less what I could gather from some of the shops.

any opinions?

How much for the MR5's?....are they new or used?
I have KRK Rokit5's and I don't like them as much as my friends MR5's
But that just me...if I was buying that same size and had my choice between the KRK and Mackie I would pick the Mackie.
I think whatever you get if you take good care of them will last a long time.
I still have a pair of JBL Control5 monitors that I bought many years ago and I still listen to them and they are in great shape!

brand new, approx 375 u$s, and that's for the pair so they say...

Amazon.com here has them for $360 pair.
So sounds like that might be a pretty fair deal for you in Argentina!

It is! But it's so damn strange: all the other music shops sell them for about u$s 750 and these guys are just giving them away for u$s 350?? the pair?? I wrote to them to ask about payment methods, etc, they haven't replied yet...

ferchis, post: 301177 wrote: It is! But it's so damn strange: all the other music shops sell them for about u$s 750 and these guys are just giving them away for u$s 350?? the pair?? I wrote to them to ask about payment methods, etc, they haven't replied yet...

$750!!!!!!!!!
If that is for MR5's that would be waaaaay too much and they are ripping you off!
MR8's are about $500 a pair here and those are the 8" version....which would be even better!
But not for that price!! That seems way off base!
Maybe the $350 they quoted you was the price for one!....not a pair!
You should check prices in US like Amazon.com first and make sure you are talking about the same items. Do you have access to any online internet companies in the US that can ship to Argentina?
I suppose there are shipping charges, taxes and import duty....Maybe you have found a good business to get into in Argentina?!! LOL

not at all, the price they offer is FOR THE PAIR, but again dj you're forgetting that this is South America, and specially here in Argentina things are ALWAYS far more expensive than in the US, so if you think about it, they could be u$s 360 in the States, it "makes sense" to find them here for that price. though I can tell you that the price I mentioned was one I found at a ridiculously expensive shop here, I've just seen them in a more "reasonable" place at u$s 634...

that's the way it is, my friend... unfortunately we have to pay a LOT more for what in 1st-world countries is affordable

still, I'm phoning the place where I found them at u$s 370 tomorrow and see what they tell me

I understand,....makes no sense of course, or maybe it does....but I guess that's what happens with US made things.
It's too bad you don't have locally made equipment that you can buy for a good price and take pride in "made in Argentina"...

yeah! that would be nice! but, hey!! laugh at this... [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.pcmidice…"]Placas de Audio, Placas de Sonido y Midi Profesionales PC MIDI CENTER[/]="http://www.pcmidice…"]Placas de Audio, Placas de Sonido y Midi Profesionales PC MIDI CENTER[/]

those, as far as I know, are from an ARGENTINIAN company (so I've been told), made in China, and sold for u$s 440!!!!!! hahahahahaha unbelievable, right?
you would think that being local they would be considerably cheaper than any US-made product, but logic seems to fail again here...

We get a lot of Chinese made equipment too, it seems all of the companies nowadays are building their products there!
Looks like Argentina is no different....
I couldn't read the specs on those but how do they compare to the other US, UK, Japanese or European made models?

mmm... I'm no expert, I couldn't tell... but the funny fact remains that they are made by an Argentininan brand and are still more expensive than US-made products... I find it baffling (pun intended haha)

Can you go to shops there and listen to different brand monitors?
That's the best thing to do if you can....speakers are like that....your ears are the best test and would really help you decide...

yes, I know, but what if I COULD after all get those mackie at an incredible price? should I just let them pass by like that? wouldn't it be sensible to get them after hearing a barrage of positive reviews saying they're great value for the money and absolutely reliable in home studio and professional studio environment?

I would buy them....

BTW I noticed you said you got the Mackie mixer the 402?
Do you like it?

I've just tested it. it's incredible! it boosted all volumes by an enormous percent!!! I still have to fully test it, but the sound quality is so clean and powerful that my poor hifi stereo system won't last long with it running hahahahaa!

that's another reason to get some monitors. btw, the alleged price for the mr5s was, finally, INDIVIDUAL, not for the pair, so there WAS a mistake...

do you know the samson Mediaone 4A?? are they good enough for a small environment?

thanks!

Sorry, I don't have any experience with those.
They seem very inexpensive for monitors....$150/pair here!
I bought a Klipsch THX computer speaker system a while back with a subwoofer and two small satellites and that was $180 US....and they sound pretty good but they are not "monitors"....so if price has anything to say about whats a "monitor" versus just speakers....then I think you need to consider that in the price of those Samsons...
Hopefully someone else here has an opinion on the Samson's or the other less expensive models, but I think at that price range you may get a few negative comments about what is a real "monitor".
Many people here would consider the MR5's and KRK's as really the lowest grade of studio monitors. Even though they do fit a price range for the budget home recordist..
This is one reason why people get comments to save their money and buy something better when they can afford it!
Again if you could go and listen to some of these speakers yourself first hand with music you know and love it can make a big difference....sometimes a cheaper system will sound great to you and not someone else!

yes, someone recommended I try the mediaone 5A, but I know they only have rca inputs, which isn't a great sign...

they do, however, have the RESOLV series (samson, I mean), which seems to be aimed at a more professional or near-pro market, having both options of balanced/unbal and perhaps a better sound...

The biggest problem in the speaker v. monitor battle is this:

Speakers are meant to make things sound good, even if they don't.
Monitors are meant to tell you what things sound like, period.

That's an oversimplification, but the following is certainly true:
When engineers consider a monitor, its ability to reproduce every frequency/transient/etc of a mix accurately is job #1.

The hardest thing (for me) about mixing is making sure that what you hear in your room is what others hear in their listening environments.
If your speakers/monitors are lying to you, you're only making guesses.
Of course, the solution to this is to listen to a buttload of great records you are familiar with on a given set of monitors, and LEARN them.
A handicap, yes, but one that can be overcome.

So either save for good monitors (double, triple, quadruple your budget), or suck it up w/ crap and learn what "good" sounds like on them.

there is one thing, though, that I still find puzzling: I've read a lot of people here (and some other pages as well) say that the realm of monitors is quite a subjective one in that you should listen to as many as possible before buying because they all sound different to everyone, so what you have to do is just find the one you feel most comfortable with.

if that is the case, then, what I don't get is WHY does mostly everyone say that this and that monitor is crap and you should never buy it. I KNOW that there must be good and bad monitors, of course, it's obvious, but things being that way, I don't see why we should be then saying that you have to go and test every single monitor and see which one you like most...

I think the main problem is the budget you have. I understand it is what it is...but you have to realize talking about monitors in a professional recording studio run into the thousands and thousands of dollars even into the tens of thousands of dollars and your asking what should you buy for $300 which is difficult to even get one monitor much less two. At the prices you are talking about, you're not going to find a great deal of difference between a high end computer speaker or hi-fi system and a $180 pair of "monitors"....

There are so many high quality monitors that have real actual specs that you can look at and compare.
There are so many things that can make a good monitor that is very accurate and has a very flat frequency response. There is the power amplifier and crossover circuitry. There is design of the dispersion wave front and porting of the cabinet. There is the quantity, quality and size of the drivers.
And then there's your ears.....there will always be subtle differences in what one hears in any given set of speakers...this is why many people prefer to critically listen to a set of monitors before making the final choice....

At the prices you are working with, I don't think you can go wrong with any of those choices because there isn't much out there at those prices that can claim they are "monitors"....and I think they are stretching it...again specs is the only way to know....compare those to higher quality units and you will see the differences.

Is there a way you can buy any of these monitors and then return them if your unhappy with them?
That would be the smart thing to do.....either that or listen to them side by side first and make a choice...

all right, let's just say, for a minute, that I could actually come up with an extra money and reach a little bit more...

would any of THESE suit my needs for a HOME STUDIO?

M-Audio BX5A
Samson Resolv 5A (or 4A)
Tascam VL A4
KRK rockit 5
M-audio Studiophile AV40

and if they do, which could be the best one(s)?

cheers!

Can you go and listen to each of those?
If not then get the best price you can on either the M-Audio BX5A or the KRK5.

well, as far as I've heard, the maudio bx5 are u$s 500 and the krks u$s 540, which is, at this moment, frankly impossible to reach, but I AM going to try them and listen whenever I can to at least have an idea. I was thinking about the samson resolv A5 as well... they seem good, and I've also heard fantastic things of the Maudio studiophile AV40.

but anyway, there is something I haven't asked so far and would like to get some pointers at: what should I look for when it comes to specifications? (frequency response, balanced/unbal, power, etc)

this graph I took from the specs of the NADY 250a monitors. is this good or bad? (I just got it as a reference) it doesn't seem too flat to me...

Attached files

No that's not very good. You aren't going to get honest and flat in your price range. For reference purposes take a look at the chart in this brochure.

http://www.genelec.com/documents/datasheets/DS8040a.pdf

This actually gives you so much information that it can be confusing too. The different degree markings are for typical response when not in the positioned sweet spot.

In the range you mentioned, the m-audio and krk's get good reviews, here and elsewhere.

Jack hit on the crux of being serious though -
you gotta get serious about specs, positioning, the room, and oh yeah... cash.
I'm in the position of looking at upgrading my current setup (which includes the m-audio's and a pair of alesis 1s) to something like he mentioned. Pretty serious.
Ouch.

You should be able to find the above-mentioned monitors for cheaper than that.
I got my Bx5s less than two years ago for under $300 US.
They can still be had in that range. Same for the KRKs.

thanks soap, but I'm in Argentina, and things do NOT cost the same over here...

btw, I have the latest news flash: I went to test out the 3 monitors that more or less I was considering: KRK rockit 5, M audio bx5a, and Samson resolv a5. this is MY personal review...

first off, I can say I was lucky to have been able to test all 3 of them, since the music shops around here always seem to forget that you're a customer and rather see you as a nuisance they have to get rid of as soon as possible. so I had to go to 3 different shops where each one tried to sell what they had available and, luckily, what they had right there plugged to hear were these 3.

Rockit 5: didn't like them, at all. just like that. they sounded jarring, maybe too bassy, I don't know. still, this was the place where the placing and room were the worst from the 3, which means that the assistant only put them on a carboard box, side by side, and connected them with an rca cable... so, who knows.

m audio bx5: these are the ones I liked most, crisp, clean, powerful, but I have to say that the shop was deserted at the time so we could hear everything in tranquility with no interruptions or noise. I really liked them, but I saw that they have no correction switches at the back, which (I don't know about this, so, please correct me if I'm wrong) probably tells me that you have to adapt the room to them instead of viceversa, so they behave the same in everyplace and its a matter of finding the right room for them, and not finding the right monitors for your room.

samson resolv 5A: incredible I must say, probably not as clear-sounding as the m-audios, but punchy, powerful, fantastic highs, audible and thick lows, and I probably made a mistake by taking a dream theater album with me, because I've never really heard too much of a bass strength in myung's sound in their music, so I wouldn't know if the lows were a tiny little bit thin or it was the band. moreover, the room was full of people, and although the assistant did a great job of placing them at a level distance from the ground, there were some boys trying out a distorted guitar at the background, people talking here and there, so my guess is that they would behave even better in the tranquility of my room. aaaaaaand, they have some high frequency lift controls to somehow "tune" them to the room, which I found was more user-friendly (again, correct me if I'm wrong)

well... that's it, I think at least I've narrowed it down to 2 options, and I know most of you will probably tell me to go for the m audios, but has anyone here ever heard the samsons?

cheers!

Good on you for going to hear them. Unfortunately since you did not hear them in the same room with the same system and the same music and the same ambience, you can't judge too much even the ones you didn't like-or especially the ones you didn't like. In fairness you may hate the KRK no matter what room they were in but you don't know that yet. Also, here is also the problem with setting up a home studio. The room you are going to mix in and listen in needs to be as good as you can make it. You can take the highest end of professional monitor and stick it in the average bedroom mix environment and it will sound like garbage. Just a for instance.

This stuff is harder than you thought, huh? ;-)

not really, as a matter of fact I have to clarify sth: I am not really that much demanding when it comes to sound quality. I've found this out during all my years as a musician. I just know what I like, but I do NOT object to most sound systems or configurations, or even recordings and qualities as many colleagues do; I don't always have sth to say when it comes to sound and find myself to be rather "satisfied" with most recordings in terms of mixing, mastering, etc etc. you could say I'm a sort of an "average" listener, I don't look for sth in particular all the time, but I do realise when I hear sth I don't like. maybe what I'm trying to say is that I'm not fussy about sound. so, most surely I think I'll make do with whatever I have in the environment I have and try to do the best in my opinion. of course, I'll always run into someone who'll say that my recordings don't sound professional, etc etc etc, but all I want is for ME to be happy with the sound, first and foremost.

so... that's how things stand: now I'm torn between these two, the m audio and the samson, and frankly, I don't know what to do, hahaha

Sorry, ferchis, I missed your location. That would certainly explain the price difference!

Jack is completely right - it's all about the room.
You'll find there's not a lot of evidence to the benefits of monitors that tune to the room.
In fact, some say it can cause more problems than it solves.
The bottom line is how important the room is. I mix in a 13'x12'x12' room. Virtually a cube.
This is the #1 problem of me getting my mixes to translate - not my cheaper monitors.
Monitor placement, listening position, and room treatment make all the difference.

Finally, I can echo your impressions of the bx5a.
They're a little tinny/chirpy compared to my Alesis', but have a pretty nice bottom for small monitors.
In fact, a very tight bottom end. Not a big one, but you'll know if the kick and bass are there.

Good luck on your final decision!

ok, so let's talk about the room, then. I'll do my utmost at getting things as right as possible. what should I look for when preparing and adjusting the room to the monitors? ¡s there anything in particular I should do?

I tell you about the room: it's 3m x 3m, but most of it is covered by bookshelves and a large wooden wardrobe placed behind my back, covering the whole wall opposite the monitors and pc. there's a window to my right which overlooks the street (this is probably one of the hardest things since a lot of traffic passes by the window), but I have double glazing panes which seal the room to a great degree and the noise from outside is quite damped.

the floor is ceramic tiles (a lot of reflection there, right?), and the space between the monitors and the wardrobe behind me is 1,60m.

well... I'll await your responses. btw, the difference between the maudio and the samson is approx u$s 56, I'm sure I'll get some yells now ordering me to go and get the m audio and stop hesitating, hehehe. I still tell you: the resolv did sound great...

no help about the room?? snif... :-(

well.... LATE NEWS UPDATE: I HAVE BOUGHT THE M AUDIO BX5As!!!!! I have to say they're awesome and extremely powerful for my little room!! they almost blew the cap of my head off!!!!!

I'll tell you more as I use them...

cheers to everyone and thanks a lot for all the help and advice!

My CR is 3x3m, well luckily its 3.6 x 3.4 x 3.2 or thereabouts, but its a damn difficult size to get a good sound in. Luckily I had some great help over at the John Sayers forum 5 years ago when I built it and the plans are all here:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.johnlsay…"]John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • View topic - Advice on my Control Room Refurb Please[/]="http://www.johnlsay…"]John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • View topic - Advice on my Control Room Refurb Please[/]

If you need advice on the rockwool (semi-rigid fibreglass) terminology for your location, let me know. But these steps will take you a long way.

ok, so here is my situation. i am still recording. I am gonna need a nicer set of speakers to mix with. Lets cap it at $500 give or take a lil. I am leaning toward headphones just becuase i dont have any nice ones, and i would use them more often. But i have heard monitors are better, assuming the room is sound treated. I want to be able to put these on itunes and such. here is the catch, i was thinking of sending the mixes in to disk makers for them to master before production. So if it worth me buying real good monitors if they are going to master? and will headphones make due? Or will they just be mastering a not so good mix..? any input is appreaciated, thanks

I used to have a pair of M-audio BX5a's ($200) but my mixes never translated well at all. They were very bass heavy. When the high frequency driver crapped out on one of them I went and bought a set of Wharfedale Pro Active 8.2a's ($300) and could never be happier. My mixes translate very well. They also have a bass cut switch, in case your not mixing in a treated room.