$500 will only get you half way - you need a good mic as well as a good preamp. The Mackie preamps are useable at best but won't add the warmth and body you're after. Neither will your SP mic, though it's definitely a pretty good tool.

For a new mic you might wanna check out the Blue Baby Bottle - it has a lot of the warmth you want. It's a hit or miss mic, you either hate it or love it. I rather love it myself. It's within your budget as well.

This, of course, won't make your Mackie any better but, hey, it's a start!

you connect the mic to the mackie and then what?
how do you record?

with that kind of money you won't go that far...

do a little search on which mics and combinations thom uses, altough i don't see why u want to sound like him... why is sounding like someone a goal? the goal should be learn with our references and raising a notch...

but for the money i'd buy a good mic and save around 1k for a pre later on...
maybe thom uses one tube mic...

Try one of the Focusrite/Blue combo packs available...That would probably be yor best bet. It's a Bluebird mic with, depending on the price, a Focusrite Platinum pre. A great combo for $900-1300. You definately won't get a sound you're happy with for $500.

inLoco wrote: you connect the mic to the mackie and then what?
how do you record?

Right now I'm recording with a LynxTwo, which I love. However, I just posted the LynxTwo on eBay because I just don't need all of those channels. With the funds I get from selling the LynxTwo, I'm going to buy a soundcard like an Echo Mia or an M-Audio Audiophile. I know that these aren't fantastic soundcards (especially compared to the LynxTwo), but I think it would be smart to put the money toward a better mic or preamp instead. I never should have bought the LynxTwo in the first place; I should have bought a killer mic or preamp instead. Live and learn.

inLoco wrote: why is sounding like someone a goal? the goal should be learn with our references and raising a notch...

Great question! The reason is that, when I heard Thom's voice, I thought to myself "that is exactly what I've been trying to get my recordings to sound like!" Like I said earlier, Thom and I have similar voices to begin with. I'm just trying to get my recordings to sound better, and I think his recordings are a good reference point.

The best sounding pre in that price range is the one channel grace 101. Its a clean pre with detailed high end. No attitude though, just a clean sound. if you want some attitude save another $300 or so and buy a one channel sebatron. :D

If you want to sound like Thom Yorke and you've only got $500, see if you can book a couple of hours at a local studio that has a U47 (or a Lawson L47 or a Soundelux 47 clone) and some fat sounding pres (API, Neve, Telefunken).

MAProTulz wrote: If you want to sound like Thom Yorke and you've only got $500, see if you can book a couple of hours at a local studio that has a U47 (or a Lawson L47 or a Soundelux 47 clone) and some fat sounding pres (API, Neve, Telefunken).

:lol: :P :twisted: :D

good one... why didn't i remember that... :)

Thanks, but no thanks.

MAProTulz wrote: If you want to sound like Thom Yorke and you've only got $500, see if you can book a couple of hours at a local studio that has a U47 (or a Lawson L47 or a Soundelux 47 clone) and some fat sounding pres (API, Neve, Telefunken).

Thanks for the comment, but I'm really not interested in booking studio time. I do get your point that professional musicians use top-notch equipment that is way out of the average hobbiest's monetary reach. However, (a) everyone already knows that, and (b) my original post concerned buying equipment, not paying to rent someone else's. Thus, your rather sarcastic advice isn't helping the discussion.

So how about some helpful advice on how I can *improve* or warm up my sound with the cash I actually have? As I said earlier, I also appreciate advice on whether I should instead save my cash for an item that is currently somewhat out of my price range.

So far, I'm most persuaded by maintiger's advice that I save up for a single-channel Sebatron. Does anyone else have thoughts about that advice?

I totally agree with Maintiger and is what I would suggest also. You can get the sound you want and alot more from the Sebatron. The tubes will give you the warmth and grit your looking for.

I don't want to speak for Kurt, but I'm pretty sure this is the answer he would have given you also.

You know what Kurt would say and you should do. Now go, save up and do it.

Re: Thanks, but no thanks.

michaeltk wrote: Thanks for the comment, but I'm really not interested in booking studio time. I do get your point that professional musicians use top-notch equipment that is way out of the average hobbiest's monetary reach. However, (a) everyone already knows that, and (b) my original post concerned buying equipment, not paying to rent someone else's. Thus, your rather sarcastic advice isn't helping the discussion.

So how about some helpful advice on how I can *improve* or warm up my sound with the cash I actually have? As I said earlier, I also appreciate advice on whether I should instead save my cash for an item that is currently somewhat out of my price range.

Sarcastic? I wasn't being sarcastic. Throwing money at mid-level gear probably isn't going to give you the results you want. You need a better mic and a better preamp. It'd be cheaper for you at this stage to go book some studio time and work with the gear that'll give you the results you want.

I have a Studio Projects C1 and it's not a warm sounding mic. No preamp will change the fact that it's rather edgy. You might be able to get close to what you want with an Audio Technica 4047 and a better pre (I do really like the Sebatron when I've used it).

"Size" and "Warmth" is imparted by a couple of things in the signal path. Try a tube preamp, but you may find that a solid state preamp with transformers will saturate and sound "big". Try a Vintech or a Great River Mercenary edition as well as the Sebatron.

FWIW, I haven't found tubes to really be essential to getting things to sound big, round, fat, warm, etc.

Dan Roth
Otitis Media

Re: Thanks, but no thanks.

MAProTulz wrote: You might be able to get close to what you want with an Audio Technica 4047 and a better pre (I do really like the Sebatron when I've used it).

"Size" and "Warmth" is imparted by a couple of things in the signal path. Try a tube preamp, but you may find that a solid state preamp with transformers will saturate and sound "big". Try a Vintech or a Great River Mercenary edition as well as the Sebatron.

Thanks, Dan. I will look into those options as well. Does anyone have any opinion about whether the Focusrite Red stereo preamp would be a good choice for the sound I'm looking for? I realize the Reds are out of my current budget, but I've decided to save up instead of buying something right now.

Red is pretty sterile, in my experience. Not my "go to" preamp, but I have no worries with using it anywhere. Vocals, guitars, drums, anything. It won't get in the way, but it doesn't have a whole lot of sound of it's own.

I'd buy something else first.

The Focusrite Red (Red-7) is my usual first choice for an inbetween colored and non colored all around mic pre. Not always the perfect or final choice, but my usual starting point. I don't recall that I've ever found it sterile sounding. Which just goes to show how subjective using great gear can still be...

It's a _REALLY_ nice pre, don't get me wrong. I tend to try and match the mic and pre to the sound I'm looking for so that I can avoid doing too much EQ, etc, later on. I would have no complaints with a studio equipped ONLY with Focusrite reds.

how about posting an example of your recordings on here?
perhaps some of us can give you some good advice on how to mix your stuff better or how to make it at least sound at it's best with what you have already got now.

i mean, buying expensive gear won't give you instant great results.. maybe we can tell if you're doing something wrong, or could do a little better.
and no, im not implying you ARE doing something wrong, it might just be helpful to you to post a sample and let us give our opinions!
:D 8-)

Thomaster wrote: how about posting an example of your recordings on here?
perhaps some of us can give you some good advice on how to mix your stuff better or how to make it at least sound at it's best with what you have already got now.

Great idea! Here's a link to an .mp3 that should give you a good idea of what I'm doing. This one is not too Thom Yorkish until you get to 1:30 into the song. Here goes:

http://www.ludditeskc.com/media/Colony.mp3

and here's another one:

http://www.ludditeskc.com/media/Breathe.mp3

Remember that all the synths and drums are created in the computer. It's the sound of the vocals that I'm trying to improve.

Thanks for listening.

Hey - I like what you've done!
In my opinion - you've already got the most important part.. a good singing voice!

It's hard for me to hear right now - listening on a crappy laptop's speakers.. but it sounds pretty good for what you've got. I like what you're using to process your voice (nice choice of reverb).. on the first track, it didn't sound doubled.. which would help (perhaps it was just mixed low.. and again - crappy speakers here)

Grab a new mic.. try some of the commonly mentioned favorites. I can't speak for some of the other ones - but I did recently get a Rode K2 and absolutely love it so far. My voice kinda sucks, but I'll have some new stuff done soon to post some clips. It's not shrill or fizzy like some other cheap mics.

Grab a new mic preamp.. for the money - it sounds like the Sebatron is the best bargain - everyone seems to love them, and they're very reasonably priced. I went for the Vintech - very happy with it so far.

With your voice - it shouldn't be that hard to make it sound great.
"-)

http://www.haloduo.co.uk/Web%20Mp3/Eleanor%20Rigby.mp3

This vocal was done with a Rode NTK into an Amek purepath CIB into a Lynx 2 AD/DA at 16bit 44khz. Only processing was reverb from the TCM3000 reverb.

Not sure if it helps but worth a mention in case it does!

Paul Blenn

don't sell the lynx. That's a dangerous path to go down; buying and selling gear to get other gear that you think is essential at the time. Down the road, you're gonna need it all.

If you can't make rent, or you NEVER use a piece of gear, then that's reason to sell, but other than those reasons, try to keep what you can.

p.s. as far as the recordings go (I just listened to breathe), maybe try wiping some of that reverb on the vocal. Good voice though.

Just to get the discussion back on track, I'm looking for advice on what preamp or mic would improve my vocals in the tracks I posted. I'm aiming for a Thom York kind of sound.

Thanks.

michaeltk wrote: Just to get the discussion back on track, I'm looking for advice on what preamp or mic would improve my vocals in the tracks I posted. I'm aiming for a Thom York kind of sound.

My post is very relevant. The studio Thom Yorke is using most likely doesn't record into an m-audio setup. Converters DO matter. Although a good pre is admittedly more urgent.

Wiping some of that reverb will give the vocal more presence in the mix. Thom Yorke's vocals are always very present over those eerie background washes and guitars.

You're really going to hit the good price point at 700-1000 per channel. There are many good recommendations in this post and in others. You can't go wrong with the great river mp1nv, or the sebatron from what I've heard, although I can't recommend it from a first person perspective. A good pre alone will probably make your c1 sound pretty good. No use in buying 2 mid-level pieces of gear...why not throw all your cash into a pre and then save for a better mic...the c1 is capable for the time being.

Bhennies wrote: No use in buying 2 mid-level pieces of gear...why not throw all your cash into a pre and then save for a better mic...the c1 is capable for the time being.

Good point. Thank you for the advice.

Bhennies points are very vaild - though a tad confusing "dont sell the Lynx 2". Not sure what that means but the rest is excellant advice.

Firstly - I am presuming you are not actually trying to sound likem Tom Yorke but achieve his pure vocal recording. This is signal path. Quality preamps, Quality mics into Quality converters. That simple. Whatever actuall pre and mic Tom uses may not suit your voice at all. Since your budget is tight I dont suggest hiring either to see whats what. A good place to start is a good clean preamp. Not one that adds too much character. So the ISA 428 or great river is a good place to start. Then something like TLM103. AKG C414 XLS or for more warmth but superb vocals Rode K2. The multipatterns on that one alone wil give varying tastes to the mic. As for converters I swear by LYNX 2. There are better but only if you have $5000 to spend on them.

So recap - Get an excellant preamp first. Then save up as you go along. You may just be suprised what something like an ISA can do for your C1.

Paul Blenn

Blenn -
take a listen to his sound clips.. he sounds quite a BIT like Thom Yorke!
"-)

The first thing I'd do is ditch the C1. It's a fine microphone, but not for the type of sound you seem to be going for. As has already been mentioned, it is a very "crisp" microphone. Very fitting and flattering for a lot of vocalists, but not for everyone. I'd recommend getting something more neutral, like an Audio Technica 4040 or even the (much less expensive) Studio Projects B1. Or, you could spend a little more (but still stay within your budget) and get an Audio Technica 4047. I think it's one of the most underrated microphones out there right now. Unlike most Audio Technica microphones, it does have some character to it, and it's a nice warm character that would probably fit nicely with what you're doing. It does have a bit of high-end rollof, but is by no means dull.

I'll also second the recommendations for the Focusrite ISA-series preamps. They're one of the best values for the money right now in terms of professional preamps. You could save up for an ISA220 and spend less than you would on a Red 8 and have a great preamp, EQ, compressor, and de-esser. That would give you a lot more control over your sound. It's a nice complement to the 4047...it's a combination I use often.

I also agree that, if possible, you should try to avoid selling your Lynx card...converters do make more of a difference than people realize. I wouldn't recommend compromising one step in your chain to improve another.

-Duardo

Blenn wrote: Then something like TLM103. AKG C414 XLS or for more warmth but superb vocals Rode K2. The multipatterns on that one alone wil give varying tastes to the mic. As for converters I swear by LYNX 2. There are better but only if you have $5000 to spend on them.

You've actually listened to the TLM103 and the C414, right? They're not "warm" mics, IMHO. The AKG is a flaming turd at that price point when you consider the alternatives. Perhaps a vintage 414...

The TLM103 is nice, but again, it's pretty edgy. Sounds kinda funny, if ya ask me. And again, it's expensive. An AT 4047 is an excellent and underrated mic.

I recommend keeping the LynxTwo - however, if you insist on selling it - please let me know.

bluestone45@msn.com

cheers

omaru

Nice one Blenn - thanks for the MP3

omaru

You've actually listened to the TLM103 and the C414, right? They're not "warm" mics, IMHO. The AKG is a flaming turd at that price point when you consider the alternatives.

Have you actually heard the new XLS version of the C414? I'd have to disagree with you on the "flaming turd" comment, unless you actually meant to say "hot shit"...

-Duardo

Duardo wrote:

You've actually listened to the TLM103 and the C414, right? They're not "warm" mics, IMHO. The AKG is a flaming turd at that price point when you consider the alternatives.

Have you actually heard the new XLS version of the C414? I'd have to disagree with you on the "flaming turd" comment, unless you actually meant to say "hot shit"...

-Duardo

Just about to say the same myself. The new AKG C414 XLS (is what exactly I mentioned) is a great microphone for the money. I bought one after hearing it through an SPL Channel one (which is an excellant channel strip for the dough also).

Paul Blenn

AndreasBygdell wrote: $500 will only get you half way - you need a good mic as well as a good preamp. The Mackie preamps are useable at best but won't add the warmth and body you're after. Neither will your SP mic, though it's definitely a pretty good tool.

For a new mic you might wanna check out the Blue Baby Bottle - it has a lot of the warmth you want. It's a hit or miss mic, you either hate it or love it. I rather love it myself. It's within your budget as well.

This, of course, won't make your Mackie any better but, hey, it's a start!

I disagree...Radio Head and most rock is very colored. You need a goods preamp and a compressor as well as a decent mic. For rock, many many times a dynamic will get you there unless you have a few grand to spend on the mic too...and even then.
For instance, I'm currently working with a great singer. We used several mics, but ended up with an sm57. About a $100 mic. Great on gtrs as well.

I would recommend a Ubiversal Audio 6176, tube preamp with an 1176 Peak Limiter atttached. It'll cost you anywhere beteen $1600 and $2400 depending on where you get your deal.

Others heer mya help you out with some cheaper stuff (sorry I don't use too much bedget gear).

Mic and Vocal technique will get you a lot of the way there as well.
With what you have I'd try and get a decent compressur to get the sound in your face.

Good luck.

The UA says all the right things in the press release... but in combat I found it to be less than a thrill... to each their own.

If you're anywhere near the $2,400 neighborhood you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice not to check out the Pendulum Audio [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.pendulum…"]Quartet[/]="http://www.pendulum…"]Quartet[/]... they run a couple bucks more, and sound a great big wheel barrow full of show biz cash more expensive...

As always... YMMV.

Yeah, the Quartet is a good versatile tool too. That shoulda been on my short list, too.

I haven't heard the latest iteration of the 414 - my opinions of the 414 apparently don't apply to that one, whatever. I do like the multipattern features of the 414, but I'd look elsewhere if I had that amount of money burning a hole in my pocket.

The 414 won't embarass itself, most of the time, but as with everything else, it may not be the right tool for the job. You need to try a bunch of this stuff that we've mentioned and see if it meets your sonic needs.

Your ears will never lead you astray, while all of us are just BS armchair quarterbacks at this point.

Fletcher wrote: The UA says all the right things in the press release... but in combat I found it to be less than a thrill... to each their own.

I've had no problem getting a great sound out of one. Agreed..to each their own. But then I don't have a problem using a sm57 on a lead vocal in the control room with the monitors on (and not out of phase)...go figure.

One Channel! Good Sound.

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/minime.php

These units are absolutely wonderful. Check it out. I love mine. Preamps built in.

jq

Re: One Channel! Good Sound.

Jurzza wrote: http://www.apogeedi…

These units are absolutely wonderful. Check it out. I love mine. Preamps built in.

jq

pre is so so..no compression. don't tell me about soft limit.

I've read an avalanche of - somewhat - negative reviews on the TLM-103 during the past few days. I'm relieved as I was planning on purchasing one and now I'm so glad I didn't. Instead, most people I've discussed this with are steering me towards a Rode NTK or K2 (the K2 is similar but with variable patterns). I actually got to hear an NTK in action, as I'm mixing a friend's rock band (sorta Pixies meets Radiohead sound) and I was very impressed with the vocal performance and sound, which was captured with an NTK through a Mackie 1604, oddly enough.

I think you can't go wrong with one of these Rodes and maybe a Vintech Dual 72 UA LA-610, or single channel Great River.