I have the HS80M and love them. Only you can say if they'll work for you.

If your speakers are "bad" then upgrade, but...

Room treatment is the only acceptable answer for bass problems - sorry - and it's not cheap or easy - generally professional assistance is needed for good results, and that assumes the room is, basically, OK, in the first place - and yours is likely not... Just buying lots of bass traps is not going to work well, either...(Which you say you can't do anyway!). Control rooms that "handle" bass well, are designed to do so. Larger speakers will just give you more bass, which will only emphasize the bass problems of your untreated room.

Beyerdynamic, is now offering a set of headphones that they say are an acceptable substitute for a good room and speakers, though even they say "...if otherwise a good room is unavailable..." - see their web site. Most of us would have to try them to believe it? However, we do what we must...

For now, upgrade your speakers if you like, but whatever speakers you have you will just have to learn to use them - what works and how it has to sound in your space, to translate well to other spaces... Even the big guys do this, to some degree, no matter how good their rooms.....

Also - listen to your mixes at low to v-e-r-y low levels(I sometimes put my headphones on the table and listen to them that way) listening for "the mix" not the content - listening for "heavy" bass, or "loss of a vocal track" or whatever. A tiny little set of speakers from Radio Shack could do the same job - or just turn your speakers down... High volume levels only bring out the worst of your room, are hard on your ears(Take it from one who knows) and make mixing more difficult...... You should "crank it up" sometimes, but not all the time, or even much of the time......

Far as room treatment goes. For way below the price of new speakers, you could go to the "used" office supply place and get portable office cubicle walls, which you could place in your space to help - with no "long-term" effects to the room(No nails in the walls - no hollering from Mom?)...

TG

Room treatment is the only acceptable answer for bass problems - sorry - and it's not cheap or easy - generally professional assistance is needed for good results, and that assumes the room is, basically, OK, in the first place - and yours is likely not... Just buying lots of bass traps is not going to work well, either...(Which you say you can't do anyway!). Control rooms that "handle" bass well, are designed to do so.

I respectfully disagree with everything I have placed in bold.

You can build basic DIY treatment that will go a long way toward clearing up your bass problems for under $300. You would be amazed at how simple this can be... no professional help needed. Just the simple act of placing 4" thick rigid fiberglass panels across all wall-meets-wall corners, from floor to ceiling, can put a huge dent in the problem. Also, you can treat any space, no matter how small or how bad the dimensions are. No, you will not make a killer room out of an 8'x8'x8' cube, but you'd be surprised how good you can make an average bedroom sound with the proper acosutic treatment.

I agree that new speakers are not the answer. Get some acoustic treatment build or purchased, spend less money, adn get a lot more returns. If this is something you are in interested in pursuing, I would be happy to personally guide you though the process..

Thanks for the advice. I Have a Aurelex catalog which has some low cost treatment packages. I would like to have something portable since I also use this area as a den and spare room (until we get a bigger house). I could set the room treatments up when I mix. tracking is not a problem.

David, where did the word "disagree" come from? You have agreed with everything I said, as well as providing your own version of 'cheap can be better than nothing' solutions("Good results", are, of course, in the ears of the behearer...).

To say we can't make killer rooms with such sparse technics is certainly true, but, we do what we must...

Again, bigger speakers are not the answer to an, already, bass-heavy room... I also question whether "low cost treatment packages"(If you speak of the $99 box of foam and a tube of glue?) from Aurelex, will resolve, to almost any degree, the "bass problem"? If so, some dear friends have wasted an obscene amount of money on their studio designs and construction... I will certainly have to visit the latest edition of the Aurelex catalog... I do believe that they at one time(?) made a "portable" setup that looked, strangely, like "office cubicles", though? Might help - though was not, as I remember, "cheap"("Cheap" is, of course, also relative...).

TG

My issue is that i can't hear enough bass in my monitors. Bigger monitors will at least make the lower frequencies more prominant

I can vouch for the Beyer headphones, they are friggin' amazing...

seriously, i did some mixes (gasp, that's not pro!) with them and got it right the first time. well, came in a little heavy with somethings below 250hz but they are about as flat as you can expect a pair of headphones up until that point. oh and the details... oh my god the details :)

i'm hearing roaches farting in the next room over! hehehe...

I bought them in tandum with some wharf diamond 8.2's. of course i dont' have a treated room so i can't get anything good out of the wharf's until i do. but oddly enough, i'm quite content mixing with the beyers and checking my low end with the subs in my car when i'm out driving around.

i liked the hs80's and almost bought a pair from a Banjo Center guy i know for $500 (the mark up on them is waaaaay high) but i thought they where too 'nice' sounding.

i like the wharfe's for the same reason that most people like the ns10's. if you can make something sound good on them it will translate pretty well. i plan on running them with a sub eventually and using the beyers to check details.

anyways, if i could do it all over again i would have stoped at the beyers. when i got enough cash saved i'd treat my room and mix using standard 6" bookshelf speakers, preferabley the wharfe's (lightly used $200 a pair on ebay). then i'd save up untill i could afford some dynaudios.

my 1/50th of a dollar atleast.

what model are the headphones?

they would be the Beyer DT 770 Pro's 80 ohm version (not 250). you can find them on their site:

http://www.beyerdynamic.com

also, these headphones need quite of bit of juice. its no problem for me as I have a headphone amp. i think most standard heaphones outs will work but you'll have to crank them more. The only place I've been able to find the 80 ohm version is at Guitar Center. Every place online I've seen only offer the 250 ohm version.

one cool thing about the headphones is that they are designed to where most of the items can be replaced if broken. even the foam on the headband is snapped on, heheheh....

AberyClarkMusic wrote: My issue is that i can't hear enough bass in my monitors. Bigger monitors will at least make the lower frequencies more prominant

But it seems likely your not hearing bass because of phase cancellation caused by acoustic problems in your room, not because the speakers are not producing them. Eliminating the phase cancellation is what the treatment of the room will help do. If room treatment is not an option you are left with few options. One option is keeping playback volumes as low as possible minimizes room influence. Headphones are another choice. Finally checking your mix on other systems and adjusting as you are doing is another

Stick youe hear in a back corner and tell us if you're hearing enough low bass. If you are, the problem is acoustic; if you aren't your speakers can't produce the lows you need.

1. I use the Beyer DT770's- they're nice(Metal band hurts the middle of the top of my head after a couple of hours).

2. I don't believe these are the Beyer-recommended "mixing phones"? Again, I just saw the web site(Last week or so?), can't remember the model#? "Tradition(Which may have been supplanted, somehow through the miracles of modern technology - or just that no one is old enough to remember how things really should be?), says that so called "audiophile" phones, those that try to attain the most "realism", are said to be "open" or "semi-open" design. The phones we use to track with, more or less, have to be "closed" phones(Like the DT 770's) to avoid feedback when at the mic. For "mixing" or serious music listening, then, the more open models(At least the "pricey" ones) are said to be able to "distribute" the soundfield somewhat better(?), to some degree more like listening to speakers, and at least "lose" much of the "bass buildup" that happens in the closed models... I believe the new Beyer's are "semi-open"..?

3. Indeed. When I play a 50 cycle tone through my speakers and I stick my head in the corner((Something others often recommend I do ---- or --- was that, "...Hey! Teddy! Stick your he..." ---- no, no, no, that was somewhere else... nevermind... Anyway the "bass-buildup" is rather NUTs!!! Like my head is imploding! "Room treatment" I have... "Bass treatment" I do not have... No "bigger speakers" for me(Or expensive speakers!) until I do...

Speaking of that. Anyone have the figures handy? When is bass "non-directional"??? Below what frequency do we not have to worry that our sub woofer is not "pointing at us"/where one sub will often do? I mean a "genuine" sub woofer - not the single, 5" "main speaker" that comes in the speaker set from the office store... I'm think somewhere below 180hz??????

TG

BTW: David. Did I mention I've got a set of MSP5A's coming? Based, to some degree, on your fine review of same. Thankx! I know I'm going to like them......