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anonymous 3 August 2005

Hi, i'm looking for a few expert recording engineer sugguestions on how to possibly improve a guitar sound a bit. Firstly, i'll give a little background on my setup. I'm running three mics: One cardioid to isolate the sound, one condenser for a little bit of crispness and a tube in the room. I am happy with the initial sound i'm getting running two of these mics (one compressed) from a processor into two separate analog mixer channels and one mic directly(condenser) to a mixer channel. I then send all three of these mics out together bused (one line) as a stereo pair (L&R), compress again, then to an external converter and go optical into a single track into my multi-track software. My question is would I be better off running more than one stereo pair to my converters (separate for each mic) into my software, recording more than one track simultaniously? I'm wondering if i'll achieve a slight bit better edge on my sound somehow that way.. or perhaps I should also compress the other two mics and stick to running them all together as one line into a single track. Thx for any helpful sugguestions, opinions or info from any knowlegable engineers. ~Jp, "The Box", Minnesota, US

Comments

anonymous Fri, 10/07/2005 - 14:26

Re: Expert sugguestions on an advanced guitar recording setu

Jp22 wrote: My question is would I be better off running more than one stereo pair to my converters (separate for each mic) into my software, recording more than one track simultaniously? I'm wondering if i'll achieve a slight bit better edge on my sound somehow that way.. or perhaps I should also compress the other two mics and stick to running them all together as one line into a single track. Thx for any helpful sugguestions, opinions or info from any knowlegable engineers. ~Jp, "The Box", Minnesota, US

The answer is 'Yes'.. I think. :lol:

anonymous Fri, 10/07/2005 - 14:56

Hi, I'm NFV, and I'm powerless over my addiction

Yet another that joined due to JP22...

If for no other reason than to let y'all know the characters, "jp22" are being used in conversation:

from a google'd blog:

"Without wanting to sound too abrasive, this airline and its additional costs are as stupid as JP22..."

it'll soon be up there with xerox or santorum as a generic noun.

Davedog Fri, 10/07/2005 - 18:04

.......okay.........

I suppose I should tell everyone that very soon(ssshhhh its a secret) ...very soon I will reveal the actual text to.....

'The Syntrillium Engineers Handbook'

My copy is autographed by the MAN hisself...........

Take that you NooOBys!...

HA HA!

pmolsonmus Fri, 10/07/2005 - 18:30

Can I do a Buy It Now on the wristband for $35?

Please Reggie, .... genius can't be rushed for a mere $5 above retail. You'll have to wait your turn like all the others unless we're talkin' some serious cash. I have to buy me an autographed Syntrillium Engineers Handbook so I can keep up wit' da dawg.

BTW Dawg- since you have all the answers now.....
Which preamp do you think would best capture the nuances of the global bitch slap that JP22 has received for this thread?

anonymous Fri, 10/07/2005 - 18:59

McCheese wrote: Your inferior thought process is not translating that correctly. I bet it comes out as something like "COMPRESSION GOOD, DYNAMICS BAD" before you get distracted by something shiny.

You're a disgrace to humanity, and should be shot before you reproduce.
I think it is in your best interest to find another hobby/career, like moving objects from one spot to another. Something with a shallow learning curve and minimal mental processing. I'd suggest bagging at a grocery store, but the whole "Don't put the squishy things under the heavy things" might be a bit much.

Anyways, thanks for giving me some laughs this afternoon, it's been hilarious.

Oh my god, this had me laughing for a looooooong time

anonymous Fri, 10/07/2005 - 19:35

"It's my topic now bitch."
Kudos to McCheese.
F'in great stuff. I came over from the Sonar forum. I've lurked here before but never posted. Hilarious stuff!

If anyone starts making the "HA HA! I don't own a tube amp! " shirt you can sign me up. Classic thread guys and thanks to the mods for keeping it alive.

anonymous Fri, 10/07/2005 - 19:39

Hi all!

I was discussing the subject of using EQ to put dynamics back after too much compression with Nathannever over the phone; I think we got it!!

When you look at a waveform at sample level in your DAW the attack peaks go very "high" (upwards from the zero point) and very "low" (downwards from the zero point). After too much compression the peaks will be less "high" and less "low" (closer to the zero point).

All you have to do is to boost the "high" and "low" on your mixer EQ!!

Feel free to contact me, Nathannever or of course master JP22 for further explanations, we got it all down 8)

Thanks JP22 for setting our brains in motion!

b.

satyr607 Fri, 10/07/2005 - 23:21

diverted from the Sonar forums...I thought I had a driver problem...now I know that I have no problems at all.

Thank you JP22,...you are my zen space.

From now on, whenever a piece of gear or driver or plug-in or software crashes,...I will not get angry,...for I will tell myself,...It might be fucked,...but at least Im not JP22.

Im workin on shirts,...be back soon.

P.S. Never been here before,...nice digs, plan on sticking around...bit of advice though(from the web developer in me) upgrade your bandwith now and archive this thread...its only going to grow...maybe a pdf "The book of JP22" is in order?

GuyJohnson Sat, 10/08/2005 - 02:42

Whoo! What a laff! Made my month, let alone day.

He can't be for real, but I love this thread - - found it on the SOS forum - - made me laugh as much as the stuffonmycat.com site.

The bit about the mixing with NS 10s was my highpoint, very droll.

Just some quick thoughts . . . for that extra bit of compression, run the mix CD over with a road roller, and for extra dynamic sparkle after that, apply some restorative IQ :mrgreen:

G

BTW, Data is too nice, and intelligent, to be compared to JP22

anonymous Sat, 10/08/2005 - 08:15

Wow! It really does exist!

Quote of the day:

BadDog wrote:
JP22 - I hope you aware that by now, the entire online audio community is laughing at you. Not just at your stupidity, but also your insults and the refusal to accept the wisdom of your peers. Just be a man and accept that you are wrong.

Now where do I get me one of those T-Shirts???

Mister Prez

anonymous Sat, 10/08/2005 - 15:23

JP22,

I just skimmed through this topic, and I went through the whole registering process just to offer you this:

EQ cannot, and will never be able to, restore dynamics lost through compression.

Please value the pain in the ass it has been for me to register on a new forum just to tell you this. Value my sacrifice.

Leon

--
http://

Joe_ Sat, 10/08/2005 - 21:52

I signed up just to let you guys in on some more JP22 threads around the net. He's for real, as some of these other threads show -

(I found this by googling the email address he put in his profile here)

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.game-tri…"]Here is a thread where he says it's not stealing to share pirated software with others[/]="http://www.game-tri…"]Here is a thread where he says it's not stealing to share pirated software with others[/]

(Dead Link Removed)

I didn't bother reading the details of all this, but apparently he is an idiot elsewhere. But what do you expect from someone who believes

a sample of JP22's comments from the death metal forum wrote: Not to mention the blatant admission
by Levay that the "Church" (obviously
referring to the christian one) was
more supreme than satanism, which proves
Levay wasn't really a true "satanist"
per say for the sheer fact that if he
was his ego probably would have been
a bit larger and he most likely would
have been much less submissive to
obvious facts. It's more like he had
faith than anything else, ironically,
which is also a christian virtue, but
in reality this was probably to cover
his own ass from assassination.

Apparently your poster boy is a wannbe satanic recording engineer who is trying to figure out his stolen software.

I think the key words in the above quote are
his ego probably would have been
a bit larger and he most likely would
have been much less submissive to
obvious facts.

The Bible has summed JP up quite well with this verse...

Ps 14:1
1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

-Joe

efiebke Sun, 10/09/2005 - 02:34

It's been a while since I posted here. . .

Just want to express my gratitude for the "tears in my eyes" laughter I've experienced these past couple of hours. :lol:

This is truly a historical thread. If there was ever a t-shirt made of this thread, I would purchase it.

Oh my gosh. . . . LOL! :lol:

anonymous Sun, 10/09/2005 - 07:35

Actually joined RO to say "THANKS" to the kind moderators who have allowed this mad dash at Monty Pythonese to continue. You have made my Sunday morning sooooo much mo' bettah.

I have to say, though, that you all have been a little rough on JP22. He's introduced some heretofore unknown methods which I, for one, plan to try out as soon as I can find the time.... unfortunately I have a life to live, and a studio to maintain, so it mat take a while to go there........ like... maybe 150 years.... :roll:

I just wish I had been exposed to his expertise at an earlier date in my progression as an injuneer, and maybe now I'd have a steady job in auto sales or something more progressive.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Or, to quote my favorite politician:
"What, me worry?"

iomegaman Sun, 10/09/2005 - 15:34

Ummm....sorry to interupt this thread but I've been looking all over the internet for my studio cat, he goes by the name "Junior Pussy # twenty two" (We have a severe MOUSE problem where I work so we have lots of cats)...any way if any of you see jp22 please contact me-

Iomegaman at the[[url=http://[/URL]="http://marsh.prosou…"] Basement ....[/]="http://marsh.prosou…"] Basement ....[/]

thanks...back to you fellas...

anonymous Sun, 10/09/2005 - 16:11

OH MY GOD it gets better

" I don't think I can get
drafted either because i'm too old for it,"

if this guy is any older tahn 15 i seriously want to shoot myself. and last i checked, 15 was too YOUNG to be drafted.

i have GOT to get one of those 'HA HA' shirts (the one with the pirate). anyone gonna come up with any other designs?

how bout this
C0U1

anonymous Mon, 10/10/2005 - 01:51

Ok.... three paragraphs. One to clarify, one for the imbeciles and one for all the musicians and ego'd out "engineers".

1.
Just to clarify yet once again for the record.... AND I'VE STATED THIS MORE THAN ONCE: When I said something to the effect of using EQ to control my dynamics instead of limiting/compression (can't remember exactly how I phrased it) I meant *as i'm standing there* EQ'ing BEFORE RECORDING, NOT AFTER. Understand? Obviously theres still a HUGE lack of communication between me and other obviously ignorant individuals. Regardless, appologies for any confusion this topic may have caused with a good percentage of all the reefer addicts and vitamin deficient schizos out there. For anyone who would like to hear my music... I have been unable to find musicians or a 'fitting' label for years. If anyone has webspace I can upload some samples please e-mail me here (don't expect the quality of the recording to be top notch, i'm not a showboat and don't care for ear candy... "digilogue" is more my thing - Also don't get your confidence up too high by being cocky with me or you can just piss off, you'll be ignored): chopin1@hotmail.com

2.
As for all the insane amount insults.... they have simply been ignored. I've noticed alot of people obviously need to vent these days and its sad when there has to be a target or a catalyst for so much nonsense. It just goes to show how many people out there are truely abused themselves. The psychology is they're so sick and tired of being nagged themselves with so much other BS in their own lives that they need an outlet. This is understandable, so you're all forgiven (except for this "Joe" idiot who quoted some jewish bible passage thinking i'm some "satanist". In response to that I do happen to try very hard to believe in a supreme entity known as God but honestly i've yet to see solid proof other than billions to possibly infinitesmal oddities known as "LIFE" including myself and even more human or natural flukes - does this make *me* a bad person... NO, since I ain't your creator and you surely ain't my f'n judge bitch). Life can be very confusing, so I say let the truth be known. Question all thats false and fake, BUT KNOW THIS... if you go around like this Judas "Joe" person slandering by 'exposing', making a mockery out of, or helping to set another person up for a fall while at the same time benefiting yourself in some way, while quoting out of religion even, then your guilty as a motherf***** yourself. Period.

3.
Learn some self-control people.... and drop the ego if your not deserved of it. Most of you ain't. Bottom line: If i'm a musician and your the engineer and I was recording in your studio, i'd tell you to f-off in a heartbeat if you tried direct how I wanted things to sound or be mastered. Just because your a sound engineer doesn't mean *you* decide. YOU don't create the music, the MUSICIAN does, IT ISN'T YOUR MUSIC. You give the musician what HE WANTS to hear for HIS money, NOT what YOU want for *your* money. Got it? Good. Furthermore, if some of you are getting payoffs by other corporate entities to control certain musicians in the industry by producing these 'assembly line crap' recordings some of us are aware of, then realize that its high time to start looking over your shoulder because some musicians out there are coming up on technology in the industry faster than you may think and soon you'll be left in the dust by losing clients from all your deception. They will then start to record for each other, pushing this "industry standard" nonsense back into the stoneage (where it belongs). Don't think its possible? Think it over, technology is growing more ripe by the minute and all your expensive toys will soon become almost obsolete just like gas for battery powered cars.

GuyJohnson Mon, 10/10/2005 - 02:08

Jp22 wrote: Obviously theres still a HUGE lack of communication between me and other obviously ignorant individuals.

Freudian slip, here?

Jp22 wrote: Regardless, appologies for any confusion this topic may have caused with a good percentage of all the reefer addicts and vitamin deficient schizos out there.

Not much of an apology. Seemed insulting. Weird.

Jp22 wrote: BUT KNOW THIS... if you go around like this Judas "Joe" person slandering by 'exposing' or setting people up for a fall while at the same quoting out of religion, then your guiltly as a motherf***** yourself. Period.

Definitely weird. Guilty of the truth?

And EQ before recording is the same as EQ after recording, and as you don't know, dynamics are linear, if recorded with no level changes to 'tape' . Dynamics (ie level changes) can be altered by moving levels continuously, by a compressor, expander, by hand, automation, or by limiting.

EQ CAN alter dynamics, but ONLY if that EQ's gain is continuously altered during a piece of music, by hand, automation, or by . . . here it comes . . . a compressor!
G

anonymous Mon, 10/10/2005 - 02:21

Hi JP22,

Just like to say I'm glad you're still alive and didn't take the shotgun advice.

I would also like to congratulate you on becoming a true internet phenomenon. Your tube amp quote is now on my t-shirt which I am proudly wearing everywhere I go from now on.

I thought you must have been reading those sound on sound articles on compression and eq pretty thoroughly cos' you were gone so long.

Glad you're back. (That's YOU'RE by the way not YOUR)

Cheers,

Jim

:)

anonymous Mon, 10/10/2005 - 02:45

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.recordin…"]uh, oh[/]="http://www.recordin…"]uh, oh[/] :shock:

Hi JP, glad to see you back.

Whilst this is all highly entertaining, and you've just given enough rope to hang yourself a few more times, I do suggest you get out more.

btw My vitamins levels are just fine thx. I would offer to some samples for you, but sadlt my webspace is limited to 1Gb transfer a day, and there is no way my ISP will sanction the overload it would get. I'm sure there are other kind soles out there who would oblige.

Oh, and giving a valid email address like that is inet suicide, especially the traffic this thread has created (R.org will need to negotiate a new deal with their ISP soon!). Surely a pm would have been a wiser option...

o well..

atb
DSP

PS just for the record, I don't own a tube amp either. :)

anonymous Mon, 10/10/2005 - 02:50

Jp22 wrote:
Just to clarify yet once again for the record.... AND I'VE STATED THIS MORE THAN ONCE: When I said something to the effect of using EQ to control my dynamics instead of limiting/compression (can't remember exactly how I phrased it) I meant *as i'm standing there* EQ'ing BEFORE RECORDING, NOT AFTER. Understand?

To be honest, no, I don't understand. And it seems as if nobody else would understand either.
Regardless of *where* in your signal chain (pre- or post-recording) you'd apply your EQ, it won't become a dynamic processor all of a sudden.
Yes, an EQ has some potential to make a certain portion of your signal sound louder or lower in volume. This statement could be true for compressors/limiters as well.
But an EQ (unless it's some highly specialized one, but we're not talking about those) is doing a static modification whereas dynamics are just that: dynamic - thus not static at all.
Compressors, limiters and expanders are used to either shrink or expand the dynamics of a given track, based on the dynamics on the input signal (regardless of its frequency content - ok, there's multiband compressors, but again, that's beyond the point). So they're sort of "interactive". Play at low volume and your compressor won't be triggered. Play louder and it will be.
An EQ isn't interactive at all. It'll allways boost your 1kHz mids by 6dB if that was the setting you've been dialing in. Not the slightest hint of any interactivity - but that's what dynamics are all about.

Perhaps you should come up with an example of what exactly you're doing...
But perhaps it's just rather pointless, as you're really trying your best to ignore all of the mentioned points throughout this thread.

I mean, you seem to have a serious lack of some recording and mixing fundamentals. Now, this forum (and others) are full of knowledegeable people willing to lend you their ears/eyes and coming up with expert tips and advice for free. That's just what happened on the first page in this thread.
Still, you call them imbeciles, idiots, unexperienced and whatever. How comes?
Either you're really not willing to expand your knowledge or you're just some troll indeed.
In case the latter is true, you're playing it really good though...

Best,
Sascha

anonymous Mon, 10/10/2005 - 03:10

Jp22 wrote: Just to clarify yet once again for the record.... AND I'VE STATED THIS MORE THAN ONCE: When I said something to the effect of using EQ to control my dynamics instead of limiting/compression (can't remember exactly how I phrased it) I meant *as i'm standing there* EQ'ing BEFORE RECORDING, NOT AFTER. Understand?

Oh NOW you tell us ... We assumed you meant after. Makes all the difference in the world.

Hrm, tinfoil hat...

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