Most of that stuff is basic common sense, and can also be applied to OS9 as well as Windows (where appicable). Any and all operating systems must be properly configured to run the user's intended applications efficiently.
I tried OSX and it's a pig. It's glitzy and terribly redundant. It lasted about a week on my G4-400 AGP, then I chucked it and went back to my favorite OS of all time, OS9.2.2.
No company in their right mind would waste their time developing a DAW for OSX. The current G4 line is just WAY too far behind in technology compared to peecees, and due to Apple's teenie part of the marketshare there is not as much sales potential in a Mac-based DAW as compared to a peecee-based DAW.
IMO, you'd have to be out of your mind, totally computer-ignorant, or just plain stupid to pay Apple's price for their sinking ships. The "writing on the wall" is very clear ... if they don't do something, FAST, they're going down.

SOS,
Don't start counting Apple out yet. Macs are like a bad Penney, they keep coming back. I thought for sure that Apple was going down a few years ago, and then all of a sudden they were back in the mix. As long as Digidesign and MOTU DP3 keep designing their products to run on Macs almost exclusively there will be a market for them in the high end pro market. I'm with you, I wish they would go away. Macs marketing and cost really bother me. IMO they charge more for their product (like Digidesign) just because they can, not because they are better or cost more to manufacture. Unfortunately, I'm afraid they will still be around for a long time. Fats

Hey Guys...

People always complain about the cost of Macs, but they never consider that Apple spends a lot of money on R&D, which has resulted in many, if not most, of the major personal computer innovations since day one. They certainly have done more single handedly than any one else by a long shot.

Apple has always been at the forefront of new technologies and is always pushing the envelope. That costs money $$$$.

Other PC mfgs just have to put together parts that are already created by others, so of course they're cheaper. You can't fairly compare that to what Apple is doing.

Plus, when you price Macs with other 'major' mfgs, they are typically very close, when configured similarly.

And Apple's products are consistently very high quality materials and workmanship and very reliable.

Logic Audio (one of the top DAW's) has been OS X ready for months now, so I don't know what you're talking about. ProTools, DP and Steinberg are all ready to release their OS X versions too.

And every major plugin company is working on Audio Unit versions of their stuff, so obviously they have a much different mind set than you do.

People have been predicting the demise of Apple since day one and it never happens and it's not going to happen any time soon.

Ron,
Your right....one can only hope! :D .... Fats

Hey Cedar,

Get your butt back up there with them PC lovers ! :p

SOS,
What version of X did you try? And what do yo mean by "redundant"? Not challenging, just curious.
I'm running Jaguar and from what I understand it is a jump ahead of earlier versions. Especially on your machine. The entire interface is processed by your graphics card. The CPU does nothing but run the system.
One problem with OS 9.2.2: it's no longer supported by Apple. Hold onto that install disk with your life. OS X does offer a few things that look nice for us audio geeks: Protected memory, SMP support, pre-emptive multitasking, Core Audio, and Core MIDI. I'm more excited by the first three than Core Audio and MIDI. You ever have a background app crash and it hosed your whole system? Ain't gonna happen now. I'm not saying that OS X won't crash it just won't do it as readily as some of the legacy OS's. Also, there are some cool ways that you can recover from what appears to be a serious crash. Check out the review of Jaguar on Arstechnica. It'll give you some ideas on what is possible on OS X.

Jon

Jon,
I don't really love PeeCees...I just have developed an intense dislike for any manufacturer who charges more for a product than it should just because they can! Apple, Digidesign, you know. They seem to think that because a person can take their product and charge a decent rate for using it that they are entitled to a piece of it. Their stuff wouldn't be worth squat if we weren't here to run it and contribute our "intellectual property". As far as I am concerned, due to their greed, they deserve to die (although I don't think it will happen soon). Like I said, one can only hope..... Fats :D

Cedar,

I hear you on the price issue. Digi can rot in hell before they get a cent from me. Apple supposedly is testing OS X on AMD based hardware. It's just a rumour right now but exciting just the same. I'd like to see them license the OS again but I doubt that will happen.

Jon,
Not likely, it's the only thing they have and if the did license their OS, it would just put them in a position being on an equal playing field with Widows. They just don't have the juice to compete anymore. Apples hardware is sooo far behind now, their OS is all they have left and it too, is fast falling behind. All they have to trade on is the applications where there is no Windows counterpart. The fact that they are trying to hook up with AMD just shows how desperate Apple really is........ Fats

Everybody keeps saying that the hardware is so far behind. Can you qualify that? Are you talking in MHz? I personally won't say anything until there's a completely objective comparison. Apple's build quality has gone down recently but the G3's and the first two generations of g4 (excluding the cube) have been rock solid.
Where has OS X fallen behind? The only place I can see is in gaming software. Plus the Unix guts of OS X has opened the OS up to a ton of software that won't be available for windows.

Jon,
Yes I mean speed and compatibility. Most users here have reported they are unable to run OSX with music software. Now Windows machines are almost twice as fast. If Apple hooks up with AMD the speed issues should be addressed. Then the only thing they need to do is reduce the prices by, oh say 50% ! But I just don't see Apple doing that. They seem think because all the Pro Studios are running Macs with Pro Tools and all the graphics people are stuck with their platform that for some reason Macs are worth more in the market place. This assumption, that all music and art users have deep pockets is what pisses me off about Apple and Digidesign. Because you have the ability to make some money with their product they are entitled to a piece of it. It smacks of elitism. Add to that both companies don't seem to be keeping up with their counterparts is what I feel is the major contributing factor to their loss of market share. Apple has always been reluctant to share the pie in direct contrast to the whole Windows, IBM, Intel way of doing it and in the end it will be what kills them. Stumbling over Dollars to pick up Pennies. Greedy, greedy, greedy. .......... Fats

A lot of strange ideas goin on here. Both macs and PC's are suitable to the many of the same tasks for audio.

OS X is actually a wonderful operating system but one of the reasons you haven't yet seen more audio apps released is due to the lack of a finalized audio implementation of the OS X hooks, it's been kind of a moving target for developers. This is especially true for hardware DSP card developers and those that have had to port their plug in products to audio unit spec.

Logic Audio (with all emagic plug ins), Ableton Live, Peak, Deck, Cubase SX, Spark XL and Reason 2.0 are all available on OS X, and they work great. Nuendo 2.0 should be out in Jan as well as a number of the audio plug in offerings.

That said, OSX 10.2 does require more horsepower than OS 9 and if you don't have a pretty recent dual processor G4 I wouldn't even try for audio apps. OS 9 is still a better choice in those cases as well as when one needs all the mature OS9 plug ins. Quite frankly OSX will really distinguish itself above the pack when Apple is finally able to migrate off the Motorola G4 line, hopefully via the 64 bit Power 4's at the end of 2003.

I use Windows 98SE, 2000 pro, and XP as well for different applictions. Even with expertly setup mac dual boot audio builds I don't want to give up Acid, Fruity Loops, the Eventide Vsig and other PC only apps. So I don't think the "one up" attitude is really valid.

Way too much crappy, generic music is made on both platforms to imagine that a faster processor or better technology is really the biggest issue anyway.

raregroove

"Apple has always been at the forefront of new technologies and is always pushing the envelope."
Apple isn't doing much envelope pushing these days. Have you seen the "technology" in the new Macs? IMO ATA 66 isn't "new" technology.
"Plus, when you price Macs with other 'major' mfgs, they are typically very close, when configured similarly."
Ummm, I beg to differ. You can easily buy a similarly-equipped peecee for under $2000 that'll out-perform a Mac over $3000. But that's only the beginning! Your statement purposely excluded the fact that we can build peecees, and I can build one for $1500 that'll absolutely blow the doors off of a $3500 Mac. That's a fact, and we all know it.
Do we even want to go into Apple's "cheaper" computers, like the iMac? Ummm, yeah, I REALLY do...
I guess they look nice sitting on the kitchen counter next to the blender. But just like that blender, after you use it a couple of years, the manufacturer obviously feels that you should just throw it out and go buy a new one. There's no room for any sort of expansion inside, and as with all Apple computers, Apple does not allow you to upgrade the main components of the system to keep up with technology. AND YOU PAY THROUGH THE NOSE FOR THAT "PRIVILEDGE"!
The truly sad part about Apple's lower-end Macs is compatibility. These are meant for typical home users. Mom and Pop load the kids into the mini-van and go out computer shopping. They walk into CompUSA and see these cute-looking little computers, with big, shiny icons on the desktop. Mom puts the pressure on Pop cuz she likes the way it looks ("That would look so cute next to my blender!), and assures him that because it's so expensive, it MUST be great! Then they get it home...
The next day, Pop goes to work, the kids go to school, and Mom decides to play her little online cardgame/chat, as she's done for a couple of years on her PentiumII. Then she finds out that her favorite sites aren't Mac-friendly, and either error-out a lot or don't run at all. Then she decides to send an email to Cousin Becky. But before she can do that, she wants to install Incredimail, like she had on her peecee, so that her emails look all pretty. OMG! Incredimail isn't available for Mac!
At 2:45, the teenage boy rushes home from school, and bursts in the door to the new computer. He can't WAIT to see how this screaming new machine will give him a greater edge on his games. He pops in a CD ... hmmm, it doesn't work. He pops in another CD, same thing ... "MOM, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS NEW COMPUTER!"
At 6:15, Pop returns from his rough day at the office, only to be greeted by his spouse and offspring complaining of having problems with the new computer. He eats his hearty portion of the Meatloaf which Mom had lovingly prepared, and then retreats to his study with the new iMac, feeling very confident that his Wife and Child must have just been doing something wrong.
He flips through the little pamphlet, which was generously included in the purchase price, and assures himself that all is well. He closes the door to his study, and pops-in one of the CDs which he'd burned on the peecee. He'd spent many private hours on the internet collecting the particularly risque' films which were contained on this CD. OH CRAP! IT DOESN'T WORK! However, being just a bit wiser than the others who share his humble abode, he saunters over to the old peecee which is still set-up in the far corner of his study, fires it up, pops in his CD, and, well, he, ummm, ... nevermind.
The point is that peecees are much more practical for "normal" users. These poor folks spend twice as much as they should for something that only allows them to do half of what they can do on a peecee.
But what do I really think of Macs ... well ... I really love mine! Three years of daily operation without a single problem. I love the Mac OS, and know it inside out. I am the only Mac repairman in Pahrump who actually FIXES them, and I make good money at it. Would I buy one now ... no way in hell. They're just too far behind in technology and power. I might also add that there are quite a few ex-Mac-owners here in Pahrump who love their custom-built Michaelsoft peecees!

SOS,

Do you really think the average home user is that naive? Most people I know do a TON of research before dropping that kind of money. If people have that big of an investment in a PC they'll buy another PC or take the hit. Okay you can't upgrade an iMac but upgrading takes us out of "Normal" user territory doesn't it? You can do just as much "normal" stuff on a mac as a PC. In fact there are some things you can't do on a PC out of the box: Burn DVD's, and create multi-format movies (Moviemaker only outputs WVM files). And I can guarantee that mac users have equal access to porn with the right software... Not that I know first hand or anything. :eek:
God, I sound like such an evangelist. Really I'm not. I'm plenty pissed at Apple for a few things. The quality of the techs out there is one of them.* I just happen to prefer their way of doing things.

*SOS, you actually FIX macs instead of the regular Apple component swap? That's commendable! Are you AppleCare certified?

Most people I know do a TON of research before dropping that kind of money.

That's MOST people that YOU know! MOST home users that I've dealt-with, who have been using their computers on a daily basis for YEARS, still don't know squat about their own computer! My little funny story was a bit of an over-dramatization, but it really does have some underlying truth. I kid-you-not, a LOT of people couldn't tell you what size or type of CPU their computer has, how much RAM is in it, or what size harddrive it has. They turn it on, they chat, they check their email, they balance their checkbook. I get people with 7 - 10 year old computers asking me if I think they should buy a new computer instead of sinking a couple hundred dollars into their old one! I could easily say, "Nah, this one'll be just fine after I get her fixed-up", and take their money. But, unfortunately for my wallet, I'm more honest than that. I either build them a new one (which I only charge $50 labor for), or if they don't have $700-1000 to spend, I tell them where to get a good clearance deal (free advice).
No, I am not Apple or Microsoft certified, but this isn't exactly rocket science. With Macs, very seldom do I run into hardware problems. Usually, people's problems with Macs are of their own creation. They don't know their way around the OS very well, and they end up with stuff scattered all over the place, they only partially uninstall things, they can't get their peripherals to work ... all sorts of things. I either sort it out for them or back-up what they want to keep and do a partition/format/fresh install. If I repair a relatively newer Mac, such as a G3 or a G4, I often recommend upgrading to a bigger, faster harddrive, and/or a 512Mb memory upgrade (since it's so cheap now).
When I build someone a peecee, my warranty is, "If you have any problems, just call me. I'll come over and fix it." I give them about a week with it, and if I haven't heard from them I call them just to make sure they're happy and that they haven't had any problems with it. Out of the couple of dozen I've built so far, I've only had to make two housecalls, and they were both user problems, not problems with my puter. Still, I was happy to help, free of charge.
There are several "computer shops" here in Pahrump that sell old peecee systems, cheap. I've fixed several of them within 30 days of their purchase, because the "computer shop" sold it to them "as-is". The people are so pissed at the "shop" for selling it to them that they don't even trust them enough to take it back to them for repair! Then they find out that, for a few hundred dollars more, I would have sold them a brand new, modern computer, and they're even more pissed! So far, I've built new towers for two of those folks.
I don't make any false claims to anyone. I tell them that I "just sorta do it", and it doesn't seem to turn anyone off. I don't have a store or a shop. I fix and build them in my home, or I make housecalls. All of my business is solely by word of mouth. I don't do ANY advertising, but they just keep calling. Without even trying, it's turned into a steady business.