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anonymous 27 April 2004

Moving closer to purchase, seriously looking at the UA6176. I do Gospel, Urban, Hip hop , Rap, etc. I currently have a Focusrite ISA428 as my frontend. Looking at the UA to augment the ISA (offer color options). I've heard it and liked the way it brought out my SP C-1 mic(also looking to add a SoundeluxU-195 and a AT4060).
Where I normally purchase gear, th UA was recommended out of their offerings according my specifics. I've always had Sebatron on my mind but never having heard it had no basis. But I've thought of, 4 channels Sebatron to 1 channel UA. How does the Sebatron hold up. With the Sebatron I will add the converter card to the ISA into my MOTU 2408 mk3. I'm also looking at addin (2) Saummit TLA-50's for some compression going in.
Although I realize the 2 are different Pres, but with the Sebatron would I notice a difference in sound quality or are they about equal?

Thanks
AMG731

Comments

tripnek Tue, 04/27/2004 - 11:46

I have both and find them to be similar in color. Both have there advantages, but I don't think I would say one is better than the other. Just a little different. The big difference is haveing the 1176 on the UA. Now that I have it, I would never want to be with out it. If your going to add Summits to the Seb you may be just as well there, but I've not used one so will reserve judgement on it.

sdevino Tue, 04/27/2004 - 12:27

I have a Sebatron and the UA610. I find I generally like the Sebatron better. It is a little less aggressive sounding and adds a very nice smooth high end that records really well to digital.

The 1176 is a great old compressor but it has a very specific sound. When thats what you want it can't be beat, but I would not want it hard wired in series with one of my main pres.

I much prefer the Cranesong Trakker and Distressor in many applications.

KurtFoster Tue, 04/27/2004 - 13:23

I am pretty sure that the compressor and mic pre sections of the 6176 can be used separately. If not, that would be , IMO, a serious design flaw. That being said, I love my Sebatron vmp-4000e. The only complaint I have about it is I don't own two more ... I have had mine for over a year now and it hasn't missed a beat. Very reliable and well built.

Compressors, like mic pres, all offer their own color. The 1176 is a very aggressive sound. It is FET based and has a fixed threshold. It is very different than almost any other compressor.. I enjoy having all types of compression available to me at mix and during tracking. Fixed ratio EL OP style comps like the LA2a or the Manly EL OP... The LA 4 is pretty much the same but with the ability to change the compression ratio ... VCA based comps like the DBX's and the Valley Dyna-Mite should not be overlooked as they have a distinctive sound that cannot be had any other way...

Having only one type of mic, mic pre, compressor is a very limiting place to be in. It is like trying to paint a picture with only blue paint. It can be done but the possibilities are limited..

anonymous Tue, 04/27/2004 - 16:35

Thanks for the respones, your helping me to make decisions I won't regret later. Here's my thoughts:

1. Sebatron VMP2000eVU(I like having the meter's)-2 Chl.
$1560

2Summit TLA-50(1 Was already figured in)May purchase 2 for stereo patches, mainly synth, rhodes patches and bass/vocals)
$589.97x2

Total: $2149(I purposefully left out 1 of the TLA-50's as I've already figured it in the overall) vrs. $2195.97 for the UA alone.

I see the benefit of having the 2 inputs of Sebatron not just for vocals but also the stereo patches I use sometimes, plus the (2) Summit TLA-50's for when desired or neccessary I think is a win win setup.

I would have liked the 1176 Comp., but I'm also adding the UAD-effects card to my daw in this upgrade. May not be the real joint, but once mixed in I'm sure the majority won't be able to tell plus I have other options with the card.

Thanks guy's, looking forward to making this step shortly.

JeffreyMajeau Tue, 04/27/2004 - 18:07

From my experience, when you want an 1176 or an LA2 or some other "classic" piece of gear on your mix, what you're looking for is the artifacts that are characteristic of that gear. The digital versions sound different than the actual hardware, but they tend to deliver "just the thing" you're looking for when you're thinking of that piece of gear.

I'd say that the Sebatron is a more versatile box, as it's a bit cleaner and as Steve said, less aggressive. There's going to be stuff that works on the Sebatron and stuff that doesn't. Just the nature of the beast...

tripnek Wed, 04/28/2004 - 11:01

The 6176 can be split and both units within used seperatly. I find that the 610 also gets a bad rap on flexibility. With the Gain selection switch, pad and other options added for the 6176, I find the 610 just as flexible as the Seb and can produce a pretty clean sound when desired. I don't think the single or dula channel 610s have as many feature as the one on the 6176. The EQ on the 6176 version is a little more flexible than the Seb. But as I said before, I like both units just as well. Both are great amps. I got my 6176 new for $1870. Being able to record in stereo with the Seb is also a big consideration. I also have a Langevin DVC to thow in when I want that solid state sound. It also can be seperated into preamp and limiter sections. The ELOPs on it sound great with the Sebatrons.

Doublehelix Thu, 04/29/2004 - 04:15

I found this post to be pretty funny since I am in the same exact boat! I own an ISA428, and am looking for something with a bit more "hair around the edges", and have considered the Sebatron, the UA 6176, and the Great River MP2-NV. Don't get me wrong, I love the 428, but I need to add some more flavors to my aresenal. I also plan on adding a pair of API 512's next year.

Even with 4 ISA's, and 2 API's, I still need a couple of more pres with some "hair".

Markd102: thanks for the link to the gta music site. Anyone have any clue how long from Australia to the US? Two weeks???

tripnek Thu, 04/29/2004 - 07:41

The Langevin is a great amp. I have had a Langevin dual mono preamp for sometime now (which is for sale now, can't afford to keep it and the DVC), and find it to have a very clear open uncolored sound. Great for many applications. The EQs are also a nice feature. I just recently got the DVC so I haven't had extensive experience with it yet. The amps and EQs are obviously the same as the dual mono so no suprises there. So far I find the limiters to be somewhat "limited" in there applications but do very well on some instruments. They work great on Vocals and electric guitar. I also like to use the Langevins for my overhead drum mics and the limiters can be useful there if used VERY speringly. I tried using the limiters on other drum applications and bass guitar with generally poor results.

anonymous Thu, 04/29/2004 - 10:07

I found this post to be pretty funny since I am in the same exact boat! I own an ISA428, and am looking for something with a bit more "hair around the edges",

Hey Doublehelix, how do you like your ISA428? What types of music have you used it for and with what mics? I'm limited to my SP C-1 right now, but that's changing. I find the ISA a little punchy, no so much colorful, although it does impart a lil something. Do you have the converter card installed? If so do you run the other pre's through it, and how does that workout?
Tripnek, what are you asking for your Langevin?

Markd102 Thu, 04/29/2004 - 16:37

Doublehelix wrote: Markd102: thanks for the link to the gta music site. Anyone have any clue how long from Australia to the US? Two weeks???

Don't know really. I've posted letters to a friend in Memphis which got there in under a week. So I spose it all depends on type of postage etc. Air, sea, express courier...... depends on what you want to pay for freight and how quickly you want it.

But when you are saving that much money it's probably worth waiting for. :wink:

sdevino Fri, 04/30/2004 - 13:33

Doublehelix wrote: I own an ISA428, and am looking for something with a bit more "hair around the edges", and have considered the Sebatron, the UA 6176, and the Great River MP2-NV

I have the Sebatron, the UA610 and the Mp-2NV.
I would describe them as follows:
- MP-2NV: not hairy
- Sebatron: A nice flat top
- UA610: A full on 70's afro.

I love the MP2NV for lots of things like vox, bass, kick or snair. My 2nd choice pre is my Earthworks 1022 because it is crystal sparkling clean. I like that for anything acoustic or for drum overheads. The others are getting used mainly for mission specific colors.

Steve

anonymous Fri, 04/30/2004 - 16:41

steve, thats the best anology describing the 610, pretty much dead on. Also have you ever tried the Grace Design Pres (not the 101 though different design). Between the 2 and 4 channel versions I think the Earthworks go for a little bit more than two channels of Grace, which 4 vs 2 for a few hundred more is worth it. I won't be getting the 8 channel Grace though per channel its better than the Earthworks on price but I won't 4 more channels of super accurate transperent pres in my rack. The bottom line is the specs between the two brands are very similar, I own a Grace 201 but need more chanels and wanted to know how they compare, cause if there that similar (which a that point its impossible to tell without meters) I'de rather get the Earthworks do to the price difference.

sdevino Sun, 05/02/2004 - 07:42

missilanious wrote: steve, thats the best anology describing the 610, pretty much dead on. Also have you ever tried the Grace Design Pres (not the 101 though different design)

I had a Grace 101 in here on demo, and I had a really hard time telling the difference between it and the Earthworks 1022.

The Earthworks comes already for the rack. I like it mainly because I use Earthworks mics a lot and they need to be carefully matched to the right kind of preamp (i.e. no transformers) to work correctly.

Plus the Earthworks factory is close by and I can get great service.

Steve

Doublehelix Mon, 05/03/2004 - 10:33

!

sdevino wrote: [quote=Doublehelix]I own an ISA428, and am looking for something with a bit more "hair around the edges", and have considered the Sebatron, the UA 6176, and the Great River MP2-NV

I have the Sebatron, the UA610 and the Mp-2NV.
I would describe them as follows:
- MP-2NV: not hairy
- Sebatron: A nice flat top
- UA610: A full on 70's afro.

I love the MP2NV for lots of things like vox, bass, kick or snair. My 2nd choice pre is my Earthworks 1022 because it is crystal sparkling clean. I like that for anything acoustic or for drum overheads. The others are getting used mainly for mission specific colors.

Steve

Steve: ROFL...that was a great post! I got a good laugh out of that one, but it also is pretty descriptive of what is going on. Great visuals there!

Thanks for the post...

anonymous Mon, 05/03/2004 - 19:56

don't know the Summit comp,

Has anyone had any experience with the Summit TLA_50? I would like a Distressor, but for the money I'd be able to purchase the Summits(2) and have stereo capabilities with a little color, and also get the a couple of the DBX units I'm looking at, the 160's.

I have the Sebatron, the UA610 and the Mp-2NV.
I would describe them as follows:
- MP-2NV: not hairy
- Sebatron: A nice flat top
- UA610: A full on 70's afro.

I love this description too, Thanks Steve. I have experienced the UA6176, and can say I do see it in my future, but for now I think I'm goin with the Sebatron...

anonymous Tue, 05/25/2004 - 08:26

the summit sounds reaaally nice and fat, but with serious (more than 10db) compression it sounds muffled...

Thanks Huub, the summit sounds like it will fill the bill for what I'm doing. I rarely go that high on compression going in, and once in the box plug-ins handle my squishhing chores. Outboard compression is primarily for flava and mild dynamic control. Yeah I've heard nothing but praise of the 1176 and distressor, but budget kind of restrains me.

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