At $319 the C4's are a steal and there's not a reason why everyone should not have a pair- that being said, there's nothing wrong with getting a pair of 451's if you can swing them-
However, you will always find work for the C4 if you get them, even if you also get the 451's/

the nt5's are kind of in the same league with the c4'S, I would get one or the other...

Also within your $800 budget you have to consider the josephson c42- (matched pair $899) If you have the $800 together in one place this would probably be your best bet- then later get the C4's!

Aha, you may be on to something. Actually they would fit right in my budget if I just got two unmatched mics. That's what the mojopie guy did, and it would probably be good enough for me.
However, I'm still not sure I'm talked out of C4's yet.
BTW, these will be almost exclusively for drum overheads in a multi-mic setup and the very occasional acoustic guitar, FYI.

Thank you good sir; anyone else?

I've been using C4's on overheads for awhile now and love em. They also make fine acoustic guitar mics. 451's certainly wouldn't be a bad choice, nor would a pair of SM81's. A pair of Groove Tubes GT-44's are allegedly excellent on overhead duty. Any of those would probably work fine, though they cost considerably more than a pair of C4's.

Can't think of a single reason why I'd try to talk anyone out of a pair of them but, as always, YMMV.

Xavi, Skeetch, so what exactly would you guys say is the color of the C4? What does it do to a sound? How does it differ from what you hear in the room?

they are fairly accurate (C4's) but they seem to lack a little deph as compared to, say my new pair of K2's. I think you could easily do drums with a pair of K2's for OH and a d112 for the kick and a 57 for the snare- the C4'a are a little thin to do this

In a drum mix for Oh the C4's hold their own- On acoustic guitar they certainly provide us with an useable sound- Its just like I said that is a tad thin but certainly useable. i haven't tried the josephsons yet but am thinking these will bring a whole new dimention tothe plate, much as the K2 do

I'll chime in late here; no reason at all NOT to get a pair, even just to expand your mic locker. Can't beat 'em for the price, and you also get a pair of omni capsules with 'em, with a pair of so-so quality mic mounts, all in a nice travel box.

Get a pair and work with them, see what they do for you. They're not Neumanns or AKGs, but they don't claim to be.

I agree, there is no good reason not to get a pair if you got the $$$ However, if you have the $800 all in one place I would get the josephsons first...

I am really curious if anyone has done a comparison between the C4's and the Rode NT5's. The mics are similar in size, price, and even in their specs for the most part, but the frequency response graphs are slightly different- the NT5's chart indicates that it rolls off in the high upper frequencies, while the C4's chart indicates a gentle rise in the same area. I have heard that you can EQ the top back into the Rode's pretty well with a high shelving EQ, but I am curious as to people's real world experience with this. If anyone has heard both mics, which do you prefer and why?

JoeH wrote: ...you also get a pair of omni capsules with 'em, with a pair of so-so quality mic mounts, all in a nice travel box.

I agree with everything you said except for the travel box. Damn thing fell apart one day after I bought the mics.

Who cares though- great bang for buck. I think they are very nice on overheads- good crisp high end...they also sound great on (strangely enough) small tube guitar amps. I have never found a better match for my fender blues junior than an SP c4 (through my UA pre).

jbexp wrote: I am really curious if anyone has done a comparison between the C4's and the Rode NT5's. The mics are similar in size, price, and even in their specs for the most part, but the frequency response graphs are slightly different- the NT5's chart indicates that it rolls off in the high upper frequencies, while the C4's chart indicates a gentle rise in the same area. I have heard that you can EQ the top back into the Rode's pretty well with a high shelving EQ, but I am curious as to people's real world experience with this. If anyone has heard both mics, which do you prefer and why?

I went through the same thought process...it was either the nt5's, the c4's or octava mc012's for me...from what i've heard, the nt5's are darker...the c4's (which I have) are a bit brighter (not a lot eq'ing required in my experience), and the mc012's are hard to find in a well-matched pair and QC is terrible.

re

I have a pair of the c430's and have never had a problem with them (I record mostly metal/hardcore too), But I have wanted to get a different color for my overheads too, There is a pair of STO-2 from Avenson Audio that I've been looking at for about $500 for a pair.

You can check them out here (dead link removed)

Bob

in prodution i have used and heard a pair(suposed to be good) of the mc012 and they sound to harsh to me the c4 sound mutch more ballenced also i went withthe c4s over the nt5s because i got bad results out of my nt1 and though they are compleatly difrant mics the c4s just spoke to me when i heard them.

Well, no has quite talked me out of them. But the Josephson's are getting high on my list.

I have a pair of the c430's and have never had a problem with them (I record mostly metal/hardcore too), But I have wanted to get a different color for my overheads too, There is a pair of STO-2 from Avenson Audio that I've been looking at for about $500 for a pair

Interesting....the Avenson's are new to me. I'm a little afraid of going with omni's, though. I would think you would have to take more care of phase issues and maybe have a really good room. My room is pretty dead which may not matter.
I don't know, man; the C430's are OK (especially for the price), but their off-axis response is pretty terrible in my experience. If you point them down at the drums, you don't get much cymbal sizzle. If you point them down at the cymbals, you don't get much snare/toms. About 6 inches to a foot around of decent pickup pattern. Everything outside of that area sounds hollow/muffled.

But I have made them work. :wink:

Of course, Your Particular Observations Might Not Be The Same As Mine. (there's gotta be a catchier way to say that!)

re avensons

As long as your room sounds good, then you shouldn't have a problem, plus for recording drums for metal/hardcore music I tend to not try to get snare/toms in the oh's, just mainly the cymbals, and then compress the hell out of the kick, snare, toms to get that in your face hardcore drum sound. But I have recorded, just recently actually, my own drums with just 1 c430 on my kit and it picked up everything very very good, the cymbals were kind of loud, so I had to hit softer, but still it sounded nice with the one mic, I could hear the click of the kick and the snap of the snare and the toms sounded amazing. But on the other hand, mercenary has an extremely nice "try it out" policy that I just read today, so if you have the cash just try the mics and if you don't like them then return them. You could also call or email them about the mic, they probably all have used them. They seem very nice and cheap! too.

I imagine good for other stuff too, then if you want to could throw a c430 on the high hat and one on the ride if you wanted to get crazy.

Bob

Reggie wrote: Somebody tell me why I shouldn't get some Studio Projects C4's. I know this has been beaten to death, but maybe not from this angle. Somebody just tell me "Save up some more money and just get X mic." Maybe NT5's, C451's, etc? Music is mostly modern rock to hard rock to metal. Like to stay under, say $800

Reggie

With an $800 budget, I'd pass on the C4s or the NT5s. Consider the Jopsephson C42s, a used pair of Neuamnn KM184s or perhaps the new Peluso SDs.

sdelsolray wrote:
With an $800 budget, I'd pass on the C4s or the NT5s. Consider the Jopsephson C42s, a used pair of Neuamnn KM184s or perhaps the new Peluso SDs.

I agree with sdelsolray.

There are four pairs under $1000.00 that start to compare with the big boys.

Josephson C42- colored and creamy
Peluso CEMC6- clean
Avenson Sto-2- transparent Omni
Groove Tubes GT-44- a little darker and meaty

Dang it, those Peluso's are another nice one I hadn't heard about. Now I'm REALLY conflicted. Those Peluso's look similar to AKG C451's. Anyone actually heard them?

Looks like I'm gonna see how much doe I have in a couple weeks and probably go for the Josephson's or these Peluso's.

Reggie wrote: Dang it, those Peluso's are another nice one I hadn't heard about. Now I'm REALLY conflicted. Those Peluso's look similar to AKG C451's. Anyone actually heard them?

Looks like I'm gonna see how much doe I have in a couple weeks and probably go for the Josephson's or these Peluso's.

Check here for an opinion on the Peluso's.

http://www.soundpure.com/showProduct.do?id=683

I have a matched pair of these coming in this Friday, so I will let you know.

nt4 stereo/c4,s/josephsons

I am thinking of going to josephsons for my overheads/acoustic guitar/ and piano/ I have km184 on the high hat / I hear that the joseph,s will out shine the nt4 /c4,s and come very close to the km184/ I am useing the nt4 stereo on overheads right now/ I also have the 3021 ,s on toms/I am waiting on my joe,s to come in Studio51

Interesting read. For the same money would any of you opt for a pair of Large condensors for the same tasks? i.e a pair of ADK Hamburg's or SP C1's in plave of the Small diaghram models?

Actually, I have tried the C1 as a single for guitar, and it isn't bad at all for acoustic guitar, but I still think the CEMC6s or the C42s are a much better choice with cardiod capsules for close micing. I think they will be much more accurate for guitar.

I a/b'd the C42's and SP C4's. They both are 100% in the bang for your buck catagory. You get what you pay for in either of these mics.

Having said that the C42's on acoustic have that much more depth, detail, and are more natural sounding. I should add though, they seem to have a tight pattern - which I personally like - but you re annoyed with the tight patterns on the mics your using now, so keep that in mind.