Ive been running around these forums and other forums trying to figure out all my questions, and a few very specific questions of mine have been answered. But after hours and hours of searching i've officially given up, so I'm just gonna spill my guts here:
Here's my gig - I play drums, bass, guitar, vocals, pretty much anything that has to do with rock/hardcore/metal/screamo/indie and whatnot, and I'm trying to start up a home studio. I'm not a complete noob when it comes to audio recording, as I know my basics (my dad studied engineering in college and taught me a whole lot a few years back), but I need some help getting started.
So heres the things I know I am going to need to start - keep in mind I am trying to get a really good sound with a limited budget:
COMPUTER:
-I already have a very nice ex-gaming computer which works great. I built this a few years ago, and its got 2gb ram, 160gb HD, 512mb nvidia vid card, etc. The only downside is the sound card (although i dont think this is something very important as of now as I am planning on using a firewire interface).
INTERFACE:
-Right now I have Cakewalk Sonar 7 installed on my PC, but any other software recommendations would be great; Theres probably better software out there.
-As far as getting the sound from A to D, this is where I have gotten myself stuck. I know I need 10+ inputs for mics, since I basically want to have each separate drum's sound captured. So what I know there is that was recommended by someone at guitar center was to use the PreSonus firestudio, which has preamps for 8 mics and a firewire jack which would let me plug into my computer and manage eq, volumes, etc with the software. The only disadvantage is the 8 inputs! I know I can always get two, but 16 is probably overkill for me, and if there were two it may be too much for my computer to handle (this I'm not sure about though). So my question is, is this a good idea? or should i go with
-a Pro Tools system? My friend has an MBox which he would give to me, but what I am concerned with here is having control of each separate mic inside the software. I know that if I were to use the firestudio I could have each separate mic go to a separate track in the mix and indivdually edit volume, eq, etc, even after I am done tracking and the mics are put away. If I were to use this mbox i would buy a mixer to go with it, but the advantage of this is being able to purchase a 10 or 12 mic input mixer, or even separate preamps.
-to sum this monster of a question up: should I use the PreSonus Firestudio, the Mbox and a mixer, or something completely different that I have not thought about?
MONITORS/HEADPHONES:
-I honestly have no idea what to get for monitors. I know they are extremely important for mixing, but some are just wayyy to expensive. I dont need anything crazy, just something that will sound good and get the job done.
-For headphones, I know that I am going to need the vic firth studio recording headphones for drummers/guitarists that are tracking, but what about for myself? are these really pertinent if I have decent monitors?
MICROPHONES:
I could probably write 180 pages about my ordeals with choosing microphones haha. Im honestly afraid to look in a guitarcenter catalog, knowing that as soon I get to the mic section i get overwhelmed with all of the choices! Although I have pretty much narrowed down my choices...
+Condenser (overheads)
-Audio-Technica AT3035
+Condenser (Vocal)
-NEED HELP HERE?
+Dynamic (toms/snare/intrument/amp)
-SM57 or
-Audix i5
+Dynamic (kick)
-AKG D112 or
-Audix D6
other recommendations would help. Im looking to spend maybe 1-200 per mic, again nothing fancy.
ROOM TREATMENT:
-I found a package deal that provides some of the essentials for a small room, like a bass trap and some wall foam with the glue to apply it.
CABLES/STAND:
-Will a bulk package for cables work? I know I can buy 10 boom stands for 100 bucks through musiciansfriend, so that is not a problem, but with cables I can also buy them bulk. Once again, I am going for the best possible sound, so will budget cables alter that at all?
Anyone who answers any of these questions
i will love forever :D
-Jake
Comments
Go to a store and do some A and B comparison with different mics
Go to a store and do some A and B comparison with different mics. Is your budget for a vocal mic only 100 - 200 dollars as well? For $299 you could try a bluebird by blue. I haven't tried one but looking at it's specifications suggest it's worth looking into at that price range. Or you can try an AT4040. You really got to try them to make a decision. I'd recommend giving a Shure b-52 a chance too. I personally like it better on the kick then the d-112 and it works great on bass amps as well.
Respectfully
Christopher
Computer: You'll need another HDD. It is better to separate OS
Computer:
You'll need another HDD. It is better to separate OS and recorded files.
Interface:
Download Now
Very good FW 12in/out ADDA with rock stabile drivers.
Monitor:
You're right, it's extremely important to have a pair with good translation. Unfortunately they don't come cheap. Lots of post on this forum about it. If you can afford, those are very good:
http://www.focalprofessional.com/en/products/solo6Be.html
Microphones:
A pair of SDC for overs, acoustic instrument
A pair of LDC – multipatern
57 or i5 – can't go wrong
D6 for kick
mic set for toms (probably Sennheiser)
Room treatment:
Be careful here. I don’t know what you have found, but a small room needs lot of treatments, not just essentials. I suggest you to spend some time at acoustic department on this forum and collect some knowledge.
Cables:
Klotz MC5000 is not expensive but pretty good. Neutrik or Switchcraft connectors.
Sooooo ... what about the mic preamps?
My $.02 and worth every penny: Start slower. You are confused b
My $.02 and worth every penny: Start slower. You are confused because you are trying to buy a huge complex system with only a little knowledge and experience. Focus on a few important items. Get some experience. Then expand.
Here would be my progression.
1. Buy the extra disk drive. A very big help for a small amount of money.
2. Buy the interface. Don't worry about a million channels yet. Buy so that you can expand in the future. Eight channels would be fine to start as long as you have the connectivity to expand in the future.
3. Buy four SM57s. (The i5s are probably fine. Some like them better than the 57s. I'm just recommending what I know.)
4. Buy decent quality cables, stands, clips. Nothing overpriced, but not the bulk stuff. The sound of the cheap stuff is fine until it starts to fail. Then you spend forever tracking down the problem.
5. Buy headphones and an inexpensive set of monitors.
STOP! Record ten songs. Four mics on the drum set is fine and will take you a while to learn to record and mix well. Learn to place the mics. Learn to use your DAW. It will probably take you at least a month (and maybe several) to record 10 songs with this equipment and have them sound "pretty good." While you are doing this you will think repeatedly, "This would sound a lot better if I would buy..." But the truth is (A) anyone who knows what they are doing can make pretty good recordings with four 57s (B) people who can make pretty good recordings with four 57s make better choices on expensive equipment than people who can't.
Once you have your 10 song minimum down - go to town. Buy the other mics. Expand the interface. You will be able to set priorities and put your money where it will do the most good.
Now - no one ever takes this advice. But I wish I had done this when I started out. Education is expensive.
Stop right there posterboy breath. Bob IS the smartest guy here
Stop right there posterboy breath. Bob IS the smartest guy here tryin' to help your teenage rude ass......now......alll this computer lunacy can alm down. And you can listen to US OLD FOLK WITH LOTSO EXPERIENCE.
Recordinds made simultaniously with different non reallated units won't all monitor what's being recorded. Causing you more nooby confusion and crappy sound n results.
If you're gunna us esepparate usnits? You're gunna' need a monitor dedicated mixer from which to combine the many sources. Duh and it gets mor complicated from there. That along with yet more gear. So go ahead mr "I'm dunna impress evaone here with my knucklagble egamacation i got from a Beringer manual.
At least get 2 closley related devices by the same manufaturer. Ya' know? Compatability and that other worthless stuff.....like sence?
You're at least 18? Right?
MS Remy Ann David
xMannequiNx wrote: -Right now I have Cakewalk Sonar 7 installed
xMannequiNx wrote:
-Right now I have Cakewalk Sonar 7 installed on my PC, but any other software recommendations would be great; Theres probably better software out there.
DONT USE CRACKED SOFTWARE!!
Try Reaper: http://www.reaper.fm/
It will do everything you need and more, the demo will run unrestricted for as long as you want it to (even past the official trial period of 30 days) and, unless you are earning money with it, it will only cost you $50.
Seriously: there is no excuse for stealing software.
Start slow. Buy stuff that is good bang for the buck. You can
Start slow. Buy stuff that is good bang for the buck. You can get a Presonus Firepod for about $150 used. These have 8 mic inputs and can be daisy chained. So, buy two and you'll have 16 simultaneous mic/line inputs (and only spent $300).
As for mics, you can find sm57's for cheap used. Sound decent on most drums, guitar cabs, etc. Always a great addition to a mic closet. D6 is a good kick mic, as is the D112.
I do like the Blue Bluebird, $300 and sounds cherry. A buddy of mine just picked up an Audio Technica at2035 and I was pretty impressed at quality for the price (only $150). These would all be good starting mics.
Be careful when using foam to deaden your room. I would suggest
Be careful when using foam to deaden your room. I would suggest Rockwool held in place by chicken wire and laths. Less of a fire hazard. (have you seen foam burn?)
You will thank yourself at a later date if you go for the best cables which your budget will take.
Any half decent supplier will demonstrate microphones, so just go for what sounds good at the price you can afford. There are no hard and fast rules here. The old saying that you get what you pay for still holds true.
+1 on cables. When I first installed my starter studio a friend
+1 on cables. When I first installed my starter studio a friend installed XLR which his firm used for live sound installations. It was probably perfectly acceptable in retrospect, but he used cheap chassis sockets. Later I decided to upgrade 8 of these cable runs to Klotz and replace 8 of the chassis sockets with Neutriks as a couple had become dodgy within a couple of years. Within another 2 years I tore the whole lot out as we started to get intermittence and chassis failures and replaced all 24 runs from one room, and 2 8s and a 16 from another room with all-Neutrik connectors, and Canare cable.
The cost was astronomical and the time to unbraid the Canare (in retrospect I could have used foil-shielding, but I'm happier now its finally installed as braided) was equally punishing. But 3 years on everything works fine, sound quality and noise floor demonstrated appreciatable differences and I wish I'd just done it from the word go.
Its very hard to install the best but its also arguably easier to upgrade microphones than sort through your cables, let alone update fixed installations and through-wall wiring. The more you can aim for Canare, Mogami or another premium cable, ideally 4-core, with Neutrik connectors (nothing else really comes close imho) the happier you will be in the future.
For acoustic treatment help, read all of this. [[url=http://[/UR
For acoustic treatment help, read all of this.
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.ethanwin…"]Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms[/]="http://www.ethanwin…"]Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms[/]
Mauisnow13, post: 346372 wrote: Start slow. Buy stuff that is g
Mauisnow13, post: 346372 wrote: Start slow. Buy stuff that is good bang for the buck. You can get a Presonus Firepod for about $150 used. These have 8 mic inputs and can be daisy chained. So, buy two and you'll have 16 simultaneous mic/line inputs (and only spent $300).
As for mics, you can find sm57's for cheap used. Sound decent on most drums, guitar cabs, etc. Always a great addition to a mic closet. D6 is a good kick mic, as is the D112.
I do like the Blue Bluebird, $300 and sounds cherry. A buddy of mine just picked up an Audio Technica at2035 and I was pretty impressed at quality for the price (only $150). These would all be good starting mics.
Amen to the Firepod. Great way to get your feet wet without getting up to your eyeballs in debt or screwing yourself with crapezoid equipment.
Remy: Wow, man. Wow.
Jeemy, post: 346410 wrote: +1 on cables. When I first installed
Jeemy, post: 346410 wrote: +1 on cables. When I first installed my starter studio a friend installed XLR which his firm used for live sound installations. It was probably perfectly acceptable in retrospect, but he used cheap chassis sockets. Later I decided to upgrade 8 of these cable runs to Klotz and replace 8 of the chassis sockets with Neutriks as a couple had become dodgy within a couple of years. Within another 2 years I tore the whole lot out as we started to get intermittence and chassis failures and replaced all 24 runs from one room, and 2 8s and a 16 from another room with all-Neutrik connectors, and Canare cable.
The cost was astronomical and the time to unbraid the Canare (in retrospect I could have used foil-shielding, but I'm happier now its finally installed as braided) was equally punishing. But 3 years on everything works fine, sound quality and noise floor demonstrated appreciatable differences and I wish I'd just done it from the word go.
Its very hard to install the best but its also arguably easier to upgrade microphones than sort through your cables, let alone update fixed installations and through-wall wiring. The more you can aim for Canare, Mogami or another premium cable, ideally 4-core, with Neutrik connectors (nothing else really comes close imho) the happier you will be in the future.
Allow me to take the opposing opinion against this singing of praise for "premium" cable.
While I'll be the first to tell you to avoid Hosa like the plague, for its lack of reliability (it's absolutely the B***er of cables), there's nothing wrong with the mid-line Horizon, Planet Waves, or other similar branded cables. Mogami is some spendy shit, and the ROI versus mid-range quality cables doesn't justify the expense. I've abused the living hell out of Horizon cables for decades, and have yet to have one fail, under some seriously extreme duress, not only in live work, but when my studio (and most of the rest of Virginia, according to my insurance adjuster) flooded last year.
Hi, These dudes know what they are talking about. I would defin
Hi,
These dudes know what they are talking about. I would definitely go with the Firestudio just because it is expandable, has decent mic pres and gives you a fair amount of channels. Go for a couple sm57s, maybe a kick mic (the audix d6 is Wonderful for kick and bass alike). I would also look into maybe getting Guitar Rig from Native Instruments so that you can save money on amps and such (unless, of course, you have the sounds you want).
As for monitors, I find KRK have some very nice low end monitors. I have a pair of KRK RP6G2's at home and I picked them up for barely 600$ in norway. They are probably cheaper in the states (or any other country for that matter). They have a very nice tone to them, easy to listen to, even bass response pretty good imaging for the price. If you want a couple of cheap small diaphragm condenser you shoul check out the Røde nt5's. they come cheap and you get a stereo pair. Work on everything from overheads to acoustic guitar.
Good luck, feel free to post a track when youre finished with one. It would be cool to take a listen.
Peace!
Horizon may well be great and of course you can try stuff out. F
Horizon may well be great and of course you can try stuff out. For permanent installation its good to try something that came with a recommendation, and for daily use cables, I kinda feel that for £12 for a Horizon compared to about £18 for a Canare with Neutrik ends, the extra money (and it is a lot, 33%) is worth spending. YMMV.
May differ by country, but I imported Canare in 100-ft drums and soldered my own; prebuilt cables may be ridiculously 'spencive but Neutrik connectors are pretty much the same price the world over, and I was paying something like $36 per 100-ft of Canare - after tax & shipping it was still working out pretty reasonable. I just happened to do 400 ft of install cable plus 10 20-ft, 10 30-foot, 10 5-foot and 20 patch cables all at once, by the time you figure in 100 or so TRS jacks, and 150 or so XLR sockets it was painful to do it all at once. But per unit, value was good I think.
Can't speak for Mogami.
Cables don't really affect sound unless they fail. Buy quality m
Cables don't really affect sound unless they fail. Buy quality made stuff for the longevity of it.