Have a listen later, but I suspect a publisher is not remotely interested in the quality of a demo, but the song. That's what publishers market. A great song recorded badly is success, while a perfect recording of a boring song is dead in the water. The end product gets rerecorded, so demo quality is fine. I'll report back based on the quality of the song from the selling perspective and also the recording quality. I bet they are different.

Question. What music does this publisher deal with? Style, genre, audience etc?

paulears, post: 461964, member: 47782 wrote: Question. What music does this publisher deal with? Style, genre, audience etc?

It's not about song, as I also mentioned in my post (and as I do in my every post):

CatMalone, post: 461961, member: 51605 wrote: for educational video course

It's about educational video course, which I do at my home studio. I create educational video course and also it's not related to Sound or music industry.

Confused? What are the criteria the publisher uses for pass/fail? We can't comment without knowing the rules for submission? So is it being assessed for suitability by quality and/or technical content?

If the thing you are doing is 100% spoken word, then ALL of them are solid enough as source material as they only really differ in mic timbre. I don't find 5 better or worse, just a little less bass due to the 57 and 58 having a pronounced proximity effect and maybe a little less HF.

Is the product going to be in your 1st language, or English? Will it have audio as part of it? Some of the English pronunciation is a little tricky for you and the Shures do seem to make that a little more pronounced? Which market is it for, and do you have any data on how people will listen. I noted it easier to listen to on speakers and less comfortable on ear buds with the fuller sound of the 57/58.

We do need to get a grip on what the publisher expects? Will it be streamed on a limited bandwidth audio stream at a low bitrate, or in 48KHz hifi quality. All these things could impact - so we're guessing what features they like and what they hate. The two condenser samples sound to me very similar, yet they liked only 5? Are you letting them hear you chatting about any old thing like we heard, or are you reading the programme script? Maybe that makes a difference? We'll help if we can, but looking back at our advice, if this is an audio only product, have you tried the really basic thing and set up the mic facing you and your desk and then put a duvet immediately behind it? That's an old trick for vocal recording to soak up reflections from the room? Very simple to do, if you have a spare boom mic stand - just set it up with the boom horizontal and drape some bedding over it. Maybe in 35 degrees and high humidity you don't even have such a thing as this kind of bedding, but blankets, coats, and thick foam all do similar things - just tame the mid to high frequencies. You can then just remove the bottom below the limit of your voice with a high pass/low cut filter which will remove some of the rumbly bottom end. I can't see that much more you can do?

Cat - I think you need to give us proper details on what it is you are involved in.

This is difficult since we dont know the criteria that the publisher is using to accept or reject the submission. It is also confusing to me since the submissions arent examples of you speaking educational material.

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: Confused? What are the criteria the publisher uses for pass/fail? We can't comment without knowing the rules for submission? So is it being assessed for suitability by quality and/or technical content?

I'd address all your concerns very soon...

DogsoverLava, post: 461971, member: 48175 wrote: Cat - I think you need to give us proper details on what it is you are involved in.

I guess I provided enough information based on what I thought would be useful and required. Please let me know what specific things you need to know which helps you to give me the feedback after listening to the attached file. BTW below I'm mentioned the criteria which was given to me from publisher and I'm sure it will be helpful to you:

kmetal, post: 461976, member: 37533 wrote: This is difficult since we dont know the criteria that the publisher is using to accept or reject the submission. It is also confusing to me since the submissions arent examples of you speaking educational material.

Hello kmetal How are you? In my last post you recommended me dynamic mic so I got both SM57 & SM58, thank you :)
You might not know but this was my second time I submitted the sample to publisher, the first time I recorded the excerpt of actual content & it took time and BTW that submission wasn't good & rejected so publisher allowed me to record something random for second submission and below is the criteria given to me and this is what they wanted to check:

1. Whether there is a background noise or not in the recording (to eliminate that I recorded at 6+ different places and used 3 different mics)? BTW this is the only Biggie as they clearly told me.
2. Is it a good quality recording?
3. Have I used good branded mic so that it gives good clean output?
4. Is it sound good for educational video course? (usually this is not a deal breaker as far as I know but still it's their rule)
5. Was I close to the mic so that recording has enough signal and least/no noise so that users can listen to it properly?
6. Overall confidence of speaker while speaking.
   Hope now it'll help you to review the file and you will tell me which of Part of the recording did you like? And also tell me did 5th part stands out?

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: Is the product going to be in your 1st language, or English? Will it have audio as part of it?

No, it's in English. Yes audio will be a part of it as video course will have audio & visual both.

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: Some of the English pronunciation is a little tricky for you and the Shures do seem to make that a little more pronounced?

May I ask you which words did you find tricky for me so that I try to improve them. Thank you.
BTW English is my first language but that is other thing that I don't live in US and grew up out of US.

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: Which market is it for, and do you have any data on how people will listen. I noted it easier to listen to on speakers and less comfortable on ear buds with the fuller sound of the 57/58.

It's for all over the world and I don't know exactly how people will listen to it but this much I know that many people will watch, listen to it on Tablet, laptop, phone (as publisher told me once)

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: We do need to get a grip on what the publisher expects? Will it be streamed on a limited bandwidth audio stream at a low bitrate, or in 48KHz hifi quality.

It will be available in video on DVD (as far as audio bitrate: I don't know but I always encode in 320kbps and my audio interface supports 32bit stereo so I record in that)

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: The two condenser samples sound to me very similar, yet they liked only 5?

Are you talking about Part 6 and 7 ?

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: Are you letting them hear you chatting about any old thing like we heard, or are you reading the programme script?

This was my second submission (below I'm telling you more about it) and they gave me permission to speak something random rather the actual content (their wanted to check a few things which I explained below)

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: We'll help if we can, but looking back at our advice, if this is an audio only product, have you tried the really basic thing and set up the mic facing you and your desk and then put a duvet immediately behind it? That's an old trick for vocal recording to soak up reflections from the room?

Thanks :) No this is a video product and I have to ead out the script by looking my monitor so as you said "put a duvet immediately behind it?" it's practical for me to do because Mic is between me and Monitor.

paulears, post: 461969, member: 47782 wrote: Confused? What are the criteria the publisher uses for pass/fail? We can't comment without knowing the rules for submission? So is it being assessed for suitability by quality and/or technical content?

Sure let share :). You might not know but this was my second time I submitted the sample to publisher, the first time I recorded the excerpt of actual content & it took time and BTW that submission wasn't good & rejected so publisher allowed me to record something random for second submission and below is the criteria given to me and this is what they wanted to check:

1. Whether there is a background noise or not in the recording (to eliminate that I recorded at 6+ different places and used 3 different mics)? BTW this is the only Biggie as they clearly told me.
2. Is it a good quality recording?
3. Have I used good branded mic so that it gives good clean output?
4. Is it sound good for educational video course? (usually this is not a deal breaker as far as I know but still it's their rule)
5. Was I close to the mic so that recording has enough signal and least/no noise so that users can listen to it properly?
6. Overall confidence of speaker while speaking.
   Hope now it'll help you to review the file and you will tell me which of Part of the recording did you like? And also tell me did 5th part stands out?

CatMalone, post: 461961, member: 51605 wrote: In Short: I submitted 6+ sample recordings (each 1 min long - by using 3 different mics - used a different location for each recording - recorded after 1 AM onwards) to my Publisher and he approved 1 recording and rejected other 6 recordings. I need your little help to find out:

Or Better yet - POST THE PROJECT BRIEF.

That doesn't help us at all. The criteria are laughable - so your recordings, all of them pass every single one. For a spoken word product, the noise is very low, and any edits you make with a small crossfade won't be noticed. The brand of microphones 'test' shows they deal with real rubbish most of the time, and having a brand name usually helps and they are not dealing with people like you normally, just people who probably have a gaming headset mic.

I'd suggest they could simply be looking for a recording that sounds loud, and not one that sounds good.

You can't use sound treatment because you need a monitor and this is in the way? Change the layout for goodness sake if you want to try things. If the monitor can't be moved then it's even possible it's making the issue worse with refections, increasing your noise. If you want to have more of you and less of the room, then some kind of barrier with absorption is needed.

Pronunciation of some of your words is suggestive of someone from the Indian subcontinent, based on the inflexions and sometimes missed 's' sound at the end of words, and the sentence construction is different. Grammatically very accurate, unlike typical American sentence construction and the lack of 'Americanisms'. As a hopefully typical English born and bred person, we've got used (as opposed to 'gotten', which the English never use) to how the American version of English differs, and I would have placed your formative years outside of America by the precise vocabulary, and inclusion of polite and sometimes old fashioned terms and phrases. It's so difficult nowadays to not cause offence based on race issues, so being accurate here on this subject is uncomfortable, but my doctor, after 4 years at medical school speaks identically to you and he grew up here to Indian parents and he speaks the same accurate English, but his medical training has not softened the style and accent of his parents and family. It's emphasis on different letters in a word, inflections where it end going up rather than down and sometimes using the singular when plural is expected. I think a linguist could explain it better. It's very like when we hear an American actor using what they think is a British accent - it's a huge give-away. The script words and the pronunciation make us smile.

I doubt there's much you can do really? It will be years of learning to be changed. Can you do accents? American South, Australian, South African etc? Maybe you don't hear the difference?

I really would have guessed educated Indian or possibly other country in that part of the world?

DogsoverLava, post: 461980, member: 48175 wrote: Or Better yet - POST THE PROJECT BRIEF.

If you read my main post (first post) and subsequent replies :) then you'd have come to know I already mentioned more than enough information for anybody to check the audio and give the feedback.

Cat - we've explained that we cannot make any sense of the acceptance and rejection based on what we know, so how can we help? Your examples make no link with what they like or don't like, so clearly there are criteria being used that we are not aware of. You are unwilling to let us hear the very things that the selectors and final arbiters are listening to. We have no clue as to audience, or their circumstances, so after all this, we are as baffled as we were when you started.

I can hear NO audio reason to accept one submission and not the others? So logically there is another reason. We're trying to imagine what it is. You assume it's audio quality, but this makes little sense?

paulears, post: 461981, member: 47782 wrote: That doesn't help us at all. The criteria are laughable - so your recordings, all of them pass every single one. For a spoken word product, the noise is very low, and any edits you make with a small crossfade won't be noticed. The brand of microphones 'test' shows they deal with real rubbish most of the time, and having a brand name usually helps and they are not dealing with people like you normally, just people who probably have a gaming headset mic.

I'd suggest they could simply be looking for a recording that sounds loud, and not one that sounds good.

You can't use sound treatment because you need a monitor and this is in the way? Change the layout for goodness sake if you want to try things. If the monitor can't be moved then it's even possible it's making the issue worse with refections, increasing your noise. If you want to have more of you and less of the room, then some kind of barrier with absorption is needed.

Pronunciation of some of your words is suggestive of someone from the Indian subcontinent, based on the inflexions and sometimes missed 's' sound at the end of words, and the sentence construction is different. Grammatically very accurate, unlike typical American sentence construction and the lack of 'Americanisms'. As a hopefully typical English born and bred person, we've got used (as opposed to 'gotten', which the English never use) to how the American version of English differs, and I would have placed your formative years outside of America by the precise vocabulary, and inclusion of polite and sometimes old fashioned terms and phrases. It's so difficult nowadays to not cause offence based on race issues, so being accurate here on this subject is uncomfortable, but my doctor, after 4 years at medical school speaks identically to you and he grew up here to Indian parents and he speaks the same accurate English, but his medical training has not softened the style and accent of his parents and family. It's emphasis on different letters in a word, inflections where it end going up rather than down and sometimes using the singular when plural is expected. I think a linguist could explain it better. It's very like when we hear an American actor using what they think is a British accent - it's a huge give-away. The script words and the pronunciation make us smile.

I doubt there's much you can do really? It will be years of learning to be changed. Can you do accents? American South, Australian, South African etc? Maybe you don't hear the difference?

I really would have guessed educated Indian or possibly other country in that part of the world?

It looks like you made a lot of fun :) of me but it's okay, I don't mind that because most of the things you mentioned don't apply on me, as it's just your speculation.

paulears, post: 461981, member: 47782 wrote: You can't use sound treatment because you need a monitor and this is in the way? Change the layout for goodness sake if you want to try things. If the monitor can't be moved then it's even possible it's making the issue worse with refections, increasing your noise. If you want to have more of you and less of the room, then some kind of barrier with absorption is needed.

BTW I already had acoustic panels which I wasn't using and at new place I started using again, it's already there. In my old comment I just meant to say I can't use duvet because monitor is there otherwise I treated my room.

paulears, post: 461981, member: 47782 wrote: For a spoken word product, the noise is very low, and any edits you make with a small crossfade won't be noticed.

Overall I'm grateful to you for everything, thank you :)

BTW the last post which you made, I actually replied to other member...but it's okay.

Thank you so much.

Hey CatMalone, I'm sorry to be late on the party..
I find that the only recordings I don't like are the ones made with the MXL 770, they all sound more nazal and missing some low end..
The SM58 and SM57 might give better low end because of the proximity if you were closer to them while recording.

Now why they didn't take it.. and actual took the worst recording (according to my own taste)
this could be due to solely on volume because the 770 recording are slightly quieter..
Yes there is an obvious accent.. but it all depends to whom the recording is aimed too..

Anyway.. ask the requisite first.. this is the most important.

Making fun out of you? Absolutely not! However, you seem to be dealing with a publisher who doesn't like some of your product, won't share the reason, and you want us to tell you why? You started concerned about noise which sprung some very interesting conversations and you've invested in two very very similar mics. None of us know why they've been rejected. You are left with a single solution. Ask the publisher. I've worked for a number of very large publishers and they seem to be very dive to from yours. Your publisher wants your work, but won't for some strange reason provide you with guidance. My experience is the reverse. They always help with guidance. They help with level, content, length and for audio products specify file types, accepted formats and most common, levels, often specifying it as a max in dBs fs or LUFS. Your publisher says this will be sorted by buying brand name mics etc, which suggest to me they are simply not very good or experienced. Most real publishers have guides for submissions.

Do you have any real examples of you doing what you do? Clearly what you are giving us and what you are giving them MUST be different if they have any audio sense at all?

You sound quite cross with me, but I've only tried to help over and over again. I wish you luck with the project but I can't help further if you can't provide any answers to the questions.. Sorry.

Cat: Do you know what a project brief is? - I sometimes write under contract for a major multinational firm (all high tech blue chip clients). Every single contract has a project brief, and an attached editor. A project brief spells out exactly what is required for the job in great detail. The editor is the one who evaluates my writing against the project brief and either request revisions with very detailed and specific feedback (and at times a refinement of the project brief) or accepts the work on behalf of the client. Then I get $$$$. That's how every single media contract works when you are working for a client. It can be audio, visual, or written -- they all have a contract and a project brief that spells out the exact criteria required for delivery in order to get paid. If you don't have this then you are wasting your time (or someone else is wasting your time.) You want to get paid $? You better have a contract, a clearly defined project brief that defines the deliverables, and the terms under which your work will be compensated.

I know we're dealing with a language issue here - everyone is being really nice to you and trying to help you. But you have basically acted like a little brat. I love working with people who are non-native English speakers. It can be incredibly rewarding to bridge those language and culture barriers to find the common ground and make a connection -- and helping people - we're all about helping and sharing here. But no one likes an asshole so stop being an asshole.

I did signed up a contract under that I can't share the original material without publishers permission (Also please note the original material isn't recorded yet). As you have a experience, you must be aware of that original content, which is under contract, cannot be shared on public forum but the publisher gave me the permission to record something random to get the audio quality test passed so I recorded something random and shared exactly the same file in the forum which I sent to publisher (as I spoken something random in that clip so it doesn't breach the contract so I shared) still you don't trust me :), I don't know why? May be it's just a beginning level work which I'm doing and you've a pro level experience, with high level of quality, audio work, may be that's why it doesn't fit in your criteria and you think I haven't shared much info, but trust me I shared whatever I have and I know.

DogsoverLava, post: 461990, member: 48175 wrote: I love working with people who are non-native English speakers. It can be incredibly rewarding to bridge those language and culture barriers to find the common ground and make a connection -- and helping people

I'm grateful to you, if you ever helped me by posting a comment and if you didn't still I am, thank you :)

DogsoverLava, post: 461990, member: 48175 wrote: I know we're dealing with a language issue here - everyone is being really nice to you and trying to help you. But you have basically acted like a little brat.

If you read me thread carefully (and it looks like you didn't), I was always polite, humble and grounded, and still I am even after reading your inappropriate comment. I don't know what made you feel that I'm a brat (which is funny to me) because I never acted like a brat because I'm not. I'm very a polite, grounded person and kind person.

DogsoverLava, post: 461990, member: 48175 wrote: But no one likes an asshole so stop being an asshole.

The language which you used here for no reason is quite unacceptable (because
I never acted like this,
I was always nice and polite with everyone here
nor I said anything wrong, not even once
nor I used a bad word, ever in the forum)

but still you said to me asshole (for no reason...), it shows either you're in a bad mood or trying to vent your spleen on me for some unknown reason.

Let me share I've a good values and my values don't allow me to call anyone asshole, no matter what
so I don't accept what you said to me or what you're trying to give me so... it goes back to you.

“Respect isn't automatically earned. You have to first position yourself with a level of mannerism that's worth emulating, before others could see a strong reason to respect you.”
― Edmond Mbiaka

CatMalone - good luck with your project.

DogsoverLava, post: 462029, member: 48175 wrote: CatMalone - good luck with your project.

Thank you Sir, I'm grateful to you.

paulears, post: 461989, member: 47782 wrote: Making fun out of you? Absolutely not! However, you seem to be dealing with a publisher who doesn't like some of your product, won't share the reason, and you want us to tell you why? You started concerned about noise which sprung some very interesting conversations and you've invested in two very very similar mics. None of us know why they've been rejected. You are left with a single solution. Ask the publisher. I've worked for a number of very large publishers and they seem to be very dive to from yours. Your publisher wants your work, but won't for some strange reason provide you with guidance. My experience is the reverse. They always help with guidance. They help with level, content, length and for audio products specify file types, accepted formats and most common, levels, often specifying it as a max in dBs fs or LUFS. Your publisher says this will be sorted by buying brand name mics etc, which suggest to me they are simply not very good or experienced. Most real publishers have guides for submissions.

Do you have any real examples of you doing what you do? Clearly what you are giving us and what you are giving them MUST be different if they have any audio sense at all?

You sound quite cross with me, but I've only tried to help over and over again. I wish you luck with the project but I can't help further if you can't provide any answers to the questions.. Sorry.

Okay, let me explain: in last few days I tried to understand what you were trying to say or expect from me in terms of technical details. I didn't understand at that time but Probably, now I understand that:

"Think in this way that as per my Reality, in my world I don't have as such that kind of information with me whereas as per your experience you believe I must have that (because at your place most of publishers handover technical document(s) or some kind papers) and I'm hiding from you whereas the fact is I was not given any document or technical sheet (papers). Think in this way, If I was lying I'd not have to post here again, after many days to justify what I've been trying to explain you. The fact is, I speak truth and also honest with you, especially when I know you were trying to help me.

Earlier we just had verbal commitment and...
The publisher asked me to signup a contract lately and I did that. Before that day and till this day he didn't hand over to me any document which has those kind of technical details which you're expecting or believe as I already have, Trust me If I had piece of technical paper given by publisher I'd have scanned it or taken pic of it and sent to you via PM so far.

After having this forum discussion, I also realized that my reality which I have been living here is completely different than your or other members which I came across here, you're a Pro in sound and music and I'm just a beginner in this stream, also I've nothing to do with sound or music stream except trying to improve my skills in that piece of part which is called recording audio because it is part of video (when we shoot it). I do have good experience in my stream but again I'm no expert in your stream so please don't think I'm hiding anything, I've nothing to hide:

I didn't signup with publisher to make music or doing mixing or mastering etc... and nor I signed up with Label, it's just a video course for which I record audio and publisher is not a part of Music / Sound industry, he produces DVD, he does have a studio but not a music producer and don't deal with music except adding music track in the background.

Also I didn't explain all this so that you help me because for me a good relationship is more important than anything else so I taken time to understand what's going on and explained all this so that we don't have misunderstand anymore :)

Now I clearly see there is huge misunderstanding in between us, you were asking to try to help me and I was explaining over and over again to answer you but I hope after explaining all this, now things will be sorted out.

CatMalone, post: 462030, member: 51605 wrote: you're a Pro in sound and music and I'm just a beginner

It's always hard to put things in perspective for the different level of craftmanship specially when a beginner seems to try to make recordings for a company that might be expection professionnal material.
It would be easier to say, come in my studio I have all the gear and knowledge needed for VO and I've done this kind of work numerous times..
It would be easier because, I've got all the recipe worked out and know what works in my studio and what doesn't.

Now transposing this to an newcomers I don't know anything about, I could go so many routes.
I can say, treat the hell out of your room, get a U-87 and a Millennia STT1 with any RME, Antelope ou UA interface and on you go.. it will sound great.
But it won't, not necessary. We all need to grow with the gear and knowledge we have at the moment.
I hear things very differently than 20years ago. Every recordings every new peace of gear I upgraded got me here.

So in your position, I still can't know by reading your posts if the company you are dealing with is a pro company trying to put you aside for not being professionnal sounding enough or they just are amateurs like you are and don't know what they are doing..
You need to get in contact with them and sort that out..

Let's try to move forward.

Who is the person they will market this to? I don't know about you but if I click on a youtube video that starts Yo Dude, or Hey - or uses American teen speak, no matter how excellent the presenter is in their field, if they don't speak the language style the viewer expects then I'm off!

Without hearing not just your version, but their other products we have no idea at all about how suitable your project is? Nothing to compare it to. If the audience is younger, then ear buds will probably be the delivery medium, if older, loudspeakers. Here in the UK, our very old fashioned BBC have on some of their channels what's called RP- received pronunciation. Radio 3, Radio 4, the old world service and a few other channels use this version of English. Radio 1, on the other hand is miles away from RP, and now regional accents, and some very strange ones are now normal on some channels - Radio and TV. For a small country we have amazing variations in English. This is nothing to do with audio quality. From what we've heard, our comments seem to boil down to a few things. Your quiet voice and the untreated room. Microphones of course vary - but the common denominator is the voice and the room. Until your publisher gives you specifics - what can you do? Guess? I really think we've done the hardware side. You now need to sort the things within your power. Delivery and room acoustics.