29 years of serious drum programming and sampling. IMO - Nothing is better than BFD2
http://www.fxpansion.com Its simply outstanding.

(y)

So what's your opinion on Drum Samples?

They sound fake. I've had to record with electronic drums, and even when editing and layering my own samples, I can only get sounds that are OK. Maybe I just want to sound real? Samples just don't sound real: no nuances, no expression, just a sound played back with randomization, layering, and velocity sensing :? trying to make them sound real. The best results I've had are with Yamaha's samples with their dtxtreme brains (with the corresponding pads; mesh pads suck), but even the new dtxtreme III brain is designed for people to get in there and edit and layer themselves. So, if you can play drums, know about drums, and don't mind getting your hands dirty (in principle), buy a dtxtreme III and ditch plugins.

NCdan wrote:

So what's your opinion on Drum Samples?

They sound fake. I've had to record with electronic drums, and even when editing and layering my own samples, I can only get sounds that are OK. Maybe I just want to sound real? Samples just don't sound real: no nuances, no expression, just a sound played back with randomization, layering, and velocity sensing :? trying to make them sound real. The best results I've had are with Yamaha's samples with their dtxtreme brains (with the corresponding pads; mesh pads suck), but even the new dtxtreme III brain is designed for people to get in there and edit and layer themselves. So, if you can play drums, know about drums, and don't mind getting your hands dirty (in principle), buy a dtxtreme III and ditch plugins.

hmm, this is vary subjective, I definitely do not agree with this at all. If you think it can't be done, you are exactly correct. It really depends on what type of music and what you are trying to accomplish. If you want to sound unrefined and organic, yes, a real drum track is the easiest way to sound real.
If you want to sound modern, top forty, R&B and so many more styles, definitely someone who knows how to program drums, will not sound fake if they don't want to. You simply don't notice them sounding fake. It takes years of programming experience, including the gift to take any type of music programming to that level. It also takes good sequencers and samples to make it happen. If you know the secrets, you won't make this statement.

Most people do not know how to do it well, or want to learn how, or have the time to do it in the first place. This is where statements like this come from. The guys that know how, don't talk about it. Learning how to program drums is an art in itself. This I am 100% sure of.

:wink:

i have bfd2 and used it for a while, with much frustration. i tried ez drummer at my buudy's place and found it was LIGHT YEARS AHEAD in terms of ease of use. while its samples were not as detailed as BFD, the trade off to workflow convinced me to go in that direction. my conclusion is this:

BFD Pros- highly detailed kits, velocities, great for triggering with an elect drum kiit, unprocessed sounds can sound great if you are a good engineer
Cons- the loops suck, programming is long and tedious, CPU hog, unprocessed sounds can sound crappy if you are not a good engineer

Toontrack (EZ) Pros- midi loops are great, processed sounds makes instant drum tracks sound beautiful, CPU friendly
Cons-Not as many velocity and kiit variables as BFD, no ability to customize a keymap (which is no big deal after a day or so of learning theirs)

I am not an engineer- I am a recording songwriter and for me, to spend a week tweaking and rewteaking (as is the case with BFD) a single drum track made me hate life at times. But if I had a Roland kit at my disposal I probably woulnd't have had that issue. Since I switched to toontrack life has been great and the 2 songs I have used it for sound 10 times better than anything I've done in the last year

sq

Please let's compare apples to apples here. fxpansion BFD2 vs Toontrack Suprerior 2.1 or BFD-Lite vs Easy Drummer.

EZD is for songwriters, the sounds are a bit pre-cooked though still tweakable. Superior, just like BFD2, is raw. BFD lite did not sound pre cooked to me, but the number of kits/samples is limited.

Then there's Addictive Drums, Battery etc. All doing the same thing on their own. No experience, only know the names.

I found Toontrack's GUI easier to deal with than BFD's. I had the light version come with the Mbox2. The interface was puzzling to say the least. That's what kept me from getting a full fledged version. I think that's a personal thing, just like the choice of DAW. I am now happy to use EZ-drummer. I just don't have the time to get bogged down on setting up a drumsound when writing stuff and recording demos.

hmm, this is vary subjective, I definitely do not agree with this at all. If you think it can't be done, you are exactly correct. It really depends on what type of music and what you are trying to accomplish. If you want to sound unrefined and organic, yes, a real drum track is the easiest way to sound real.
If you want to sound modern, top forty, R&B and so many more styles, definitely someone who knows how to program drums, will not sound fake if they don't want to. You simply don't notice them sounding fake. It takes years of programming experience, including the gift to take any type of music programming to that level. It also takes good sequencers and samples to make it happen. If you know the secrets, you won't make this statement.

Most people do not know how to do it well, or want to learn how, or have the time to do it in the first place. This is where statements like this come from. The guys that know how, don't talk about it. Learning how to program drums is an art in itself. This I am 100% sure of.

The average person can't tell if a song used expertly done drum samples or real drums, but I'm talking as a drummer and home recording hobbyist. Drummers can certainly hear the difference, and I'm sure recording engineers can as well. There are some genres that essentially revolve around samples, like metal and techno, where real drums don't have enough oomph and don't have "that sound." However, I'm tired of hearing ultra-polished, unrealistic drum sound: they just don't sound real. I'm tired of hearing drum samples just like I'm tired of hearing bands with one or two guitars record a track with 6 different guitar parts going at once. I want real, not fake. And I did mention that I edit and layer my own samples, so I'm well aware that samples can sound fantastic, but do they sound realistic, not to my ears.