I think the big mistake people make is to process audio when it's not needed. When it comes to outboard gear it's even worst if you have a better tool ITB that can do the job as well.
So my approach is ; use external gear that makes a big difference in the sound while retaining audio quality.
you see if you use an external EQ because you have it hanging around and all it does differently than ITB is adding noises... There is no point to use it.
On the other hand, if you have a LA2A or an 1176 that sound exceptional, it's a good reason to use it on some tracks. But I would not use it on every tracks unless I have more than on unit (which will sound slightly different)

The other aspect is channel strips. Lately, when I EQ or compress in the way in, I do it within the same unit.
That way, it is easier to keep an healthy gain staging because it's calibrated to work as one and I don't fear screwing anything with a bad wire.
I have 2 early UA LA-610 which sound different because of the aging and choice of tubes.

Basic chain would be Preamp - EQ - Comp. But preamp and comp alone could be a great thing because the EQ plugins are a lot cleaner ITB these days.

mactreouser, post: 449015, member: 47968 wrote: I would like to try the Outboard Gear Processing for my recorded audio like Vocal and Bass Guitar. I normally have my clean recording on both, then processed and toning via plugins. And I would like to use some outboard gears like Compressor, EQ, Bass Amp Head...for that. Question :What's the basic setup/chain should I do for a single track? Hopefully my question is clear, haha...

What's not clear is whether you are thinking about processing on the way in to the recording DAW or processing tracks at the mix stage. Different considerations apply in the two cases.

pcrecord, post: 449018, member: 46460 wrote: I think the big mistake people make is to process audio when it's not needed. When it comes to outboard gear it's even worst if you have a better tool ITB that can do the job as well.
So my approach is ; use external gear that makes a big difference in the sound while retaining audio quality.
you see if you use an external EQ because you have it hanging around and all it does differently than ITB is adding noises... There is no point to use it.
On the other hand, if you have a LA2A or an 1176 that sound exceptional, it's a good reason to use it on some tracks. But I would not use it on every tracks unless I have more than on unit (which will sound slightly different)

The other aspect is channel strips. Lately, when I EQ or compress in the way in, I do it within the same unit.
That way, it is easier to keep an healthy gain staging because it's calibrated to work as one and I don't fear screwing anything with a bad wire.
I have 2 early UA LA-610 which sound different because of the aging and choice of tubes.

Basic chain would be Preamp - EQ - Comp. But preamp and comp alone could be a great thing because the EQ plugins are a lot cleaner ITB these days.

Thanks for pointed out!

What's not clear is whether you are thinking about processing on the way in to the recording DAW or processing tracks at the mix stage. Different considerations apply in the two cases.

Yup, it's Mixing stage!

mactreouser, post: 449015, member: 47968 wrote: Hi,

I would like to try the Outboard Gear Processing for my recorded audio like Vocal and Bass Guitar.

I normally have my clean recording on both, then processed and toning via plugins. And I would like to use some outboard gears like Compressor, EQ, Bass Amp Head...for that.

Question :

What's the basic setup/chain should I do for a single track?

Hopefully my question is clear, haha...

how much money do you have? haha...

mactreouser, post: 449021, member: 47968 wrote: Yup, it's Mixing stage!

In that case, there is 2 ways you can use outboard gear, roundtrip and external recorder (or second daw)

1. Many are oposed roundtrip specially if you blend with the original track because there is a risk of time displacement and therefor phase issues. But many get great results.
2. Getting the masterbuss or stems though external gear and to a second Daw or recorder become a thing these days. I guess a part of the reason goes with number 1 thinking. If you make the computer do DA and AD it's bound to work harder than just doing the playback.
   My ideas in my first reply are still valid. If you are to risk degrading the signal by going outboard, your outboard gear needs to be Worth it.
   And you better have very good converters too.
   That's in part why I try to do things on the way in. . . Once in the box stays in the box.. but I know others get good results anyway.
   It's all open to experimentation and finding your way and your sound ;)

Your question is impossible to answer without knowing what it is you want to do, what you want to accomplish, the sonic "vibe" you are looking for - and what your budget is.

If you want to go pro, then you could easily spend $3000 on just one single channel compressor alone, if you want to get the good stuff.

500 Series modules allow you to customize your rack, but there's both great - and not so great - along with cheap - and nowhere-near-cheap - 500 Series Modules available.

A 500 Series Neve 1073 single channel preamp - just a preamp, no EQ or gain reductio -, could cost you upwards of $2500.
1073 "clones" made by companies like Golden Age and Vintech are less expensive than the real thing, but they're still pretty pricey.
And, we haven't yet discussed the cost of the 500 Series Rack to install them into, and to provide power the modules with (and balanced in's and out's)... which, for a 6 space API or Legacy 500 Series Rack, could reach towards $500...

If you were planning on getting "budget" level rack-mount/OB gear; perhaps like a Behringer compressor, or a cheap graphic EQ, don't bother. You're better off to just stay in the box with your processing.

Just because a piece of gear is "OB" and/or "analog" doesn't automatically mean that it's any good. There's plenty of analog rack-mount garbage out there.

And then there's your mics and preamps...which matter a great deal...

pcrecord, post: 449024, member: 46460 wrote: In that case, there is 2 ways you can use outboard gear, roundtrip and external recorder (or second daw)

1. Many are oposed roundtrip specially if you blend with the original track because there is a risk of time displacement and therefor phase issues. But many get great results.
2. Getting the masterbuss or stems though external gear and to a second Daw or recorder become a thing these days. I guess a part of the reason goes with number 1 thinking. If you make the computer do DA and AD it's bound to work harder than just doing the playback.
   My ideas in my first reply are still valid. If you are to risk degrading the signal by going outboard, your outboard gear needs to be Worth it.
   And you better have very good converters too.
   That's in part why I try to do things on the way in. . . Once in the box stays in the box.. but I know others get good results anyway.
   It's all open to experimentation and finding your way and your sound ;)

This is really well explanation, love it!
It seems your best bet is to have all tones right before Audio Interface and tweaking tone right in the box by plugins if needed during the mix?

For outboard mix, I think certainly the goodness is Fast Record with Clean (original) tone, then spend times to tweak the right tone and dynamic in the post stage. That's my thought too. Sometimes, better ideas during the mix or right after recording section, haha.

2 DAW is an good idea? This is due to my outputs limitation? In fact, I shall get another Audio interface for 2nd DAW as input (Re-Record)? Haha.

Kurt Foster, post: 449023, member: 7836 wrote: how much money do you have? haha...

DonnyThompson, post: 449025, member: 46114 wrote: Your question is impossible to answer without knowing what it is you want to do, what you want to accomplish, the sonic "vibe" you are looking for - and what your budget is.

If you want to go pro, then you could easily spend $3000 on just one single channel compressor alone, if you want to get the good stuff.

500 Series modules allow you to customize your rack, but there's both great - and not so great - along with cheap - and nowhere-near-cheap - 500 Series Modules available.

A 500 Series Neve 1073 single channel preamp - just a preamp, no EQ or gain reductio -, could cost you upwards of $2500.
1073 "clones" made by companies like Golden Age and Vintech are less expensive than the real thing, but they're still pretty pricey.
And, we haven't yet discussed the cost of the 500 Series Rack to install them into, and to provide power the modules with (and balanced in's and out's)... which, for a 6 space API or Legacy 500 Series Rack, could reach towards $500...

If you were planning on getting "budget" level rack-mount/OB gear; perhaps like a Behringer compressor, or a cheap graphic EQ, don't bother. You're better off to just stay in the box with your processing.

Just because a piece of gear is "OB" and/or "analog" doesn't automatically mean that it's any good. There's plenty of analog rack-mount garbage out there.

And then there's your mics and preamps...which matter a great deal...

These are meaningful, No Money No Outboard Mix! Haha.

Btw, I would love to give it test before proceeding to grab "Okay" gears

Having a high quality analog rig isn't cheap, and actually, it never was cheap.

That's why mid-level pro studios were able to charge anywhere between $60 and $100 per hour back in the 70's, 80's and into the early '90's ...and get it, too.... because they had really good analog stuff ( consoles, mics, OB gear) that wasn't available to everyone in digital simulation form in those days for pennies on the dollar. There wasn't a DAW studio in every bedroom, basement and attic in those days, either, and people who were serious about getting good quality recordings of their songs knew they had to go to a pro studio - with good gear and talented and knowledgeable engineers running things - to achieve that.

Owning a commercial studio was a serious financial investment and commitment - at least it was to have a good studio - and I'm referring to what most RO veterans here had, which was considered to be the "mid-level" pro studio setups. These facilities had quite a bit of money invested. We needed to charge those rates to pay for the gear we had.
The big pro studios - on the level of places like The Hit Factories, Criteria, Record Plant, Abbey Road, Le Studio and Caribou Ranch - all had millions of dollars invested in their facilities... top notch recording equipment, great acoustics, nice instruments and amps for client use, all played a huge part in the hits that were heard in that era.

And if you're looking at going the hybrid workflow route, it's still not cheap. As mentioned in my previous post, $3000 ( U.S.) is not at all uncommon for real OB LA2's, 1176's, Focusrite Red Series processing, etc.

mactreouser, post: 449031, member: 47968 wrote: I would love to give it test before proceeding to grab "Okay" gears

Well, if you can try a piece of gear before buying it, then that's something you should do - but if the piece is something cheap, I wouldn't even bother. Cheap stuff tends to be noisy, due to cheap components used; and that stuff will likely not only not improve your fidelity, it will also very likely degrade the quality.

Today's DAW's have some pretty incredible internal processing, both stock and 3rd Party. Of course, knowing what they do and how to use them - and that goes for both internal plugs and OB gear - is crucial.
Simply throwing a compressor on an incoming signal, or inserting a plug version into a track on your DAW, or placing one between 2 DAW's for mixdown - isn't a good idea if you aren't familiar with how they work and what they're doing.
The best thing you can do right now is to learn your DAW from top to bottom. Get to know it - and I mean really get to know it.
Research subjects like gain-staging, pre-amplification, EQ, Gain Reduction, mic types and mic placement, room acoustics...

I really don't believe that you'd be happy with the results of using cheap OB gear in either capacity. But, I understand the inherent experimental spirit we all have as artists, so by all means, go ahead and try it.
But don't be surprised if you do and then think, "If I'm gonna do this, I should really either save up for top notch OB gear, or, I should just stay ITB."

IMO.
-d.

mactreouser, post: 449030, member: 47968 wrote: This is really well explanation, love it!
It seems your best bet is to have all tones right before Audio Interface and tweaking tone right in the box by plugins if needed during the mix?

Exactly !

mactreouser, post: 449030, member: 47968 wrote: For outboard mix, I think certainly the goodness is Fast Record with Clean (original) tone, then spend times to tweak the right tone and dynamic in the post stage. That's my thought too. Sometimes, better ideas during the mix or right after recording section, haha.

Some will say otherwise, that while creating the song, it's the right time to choose the tones because it will affect how the artists perform.
I see a lot of legendary mixers going for the tone and performance while recording and then the brain work of making everything fit together is easier at mix.
also it's hard to recall all the settings of outboard gear when you need to change something.
But creating a workflow that fit ourselves is very important and I wouldn't judge anyone for mixing outboard if the results meets the work. ;)

mactreouser, post: 449031, member: 47968 wrote: Btw, I would love to give it test before proceeding to grab "Okay" gears

You can rent nice gear from many places. Before investing, it's the sain thing to do... start with one unit and see where it brings you.

Thing is, we discussed that many times on RO, having many tracks that sounds the same (or have common sonics) makes them harder to mix.
Let's say I use one nice LA2A on all my tracks, because I love it and because I have it and since it cost me so much I want to use it everywhere.
Good thing ? No
The signature sound my LA2A is bound to have (saturation, frequencies and compression acting) will be on all the tracks. Therefore it will be harder to have defined tracks that are easy to tell appart. It would be like taking a picture through a cloud.

That's why the big and worthy studios have so many different units (Sometime the same make but different production years). With time analog gear age and sound different.
My to LA-610 were both made in 2001 and god they sound so different (even with the same tube switched carefully to compare the units)

So when my friends say it's gonna cost you, it's in part for that reason. We wouldn't use the same EQ or Comp on every tracks, to do a good job we would need several choices and different sounding units.
The good thing about todays plugins is that many don't have 'A sound' many are transparent at what they do (like fabfilter's) You can put 20 instance of their comp without having to fear muddiness or clouding your mix.

Of course, there is colored plugins too. But, I tend to think about them like outboard gear. I would not use the same one too many times in the same mix.
Sorry for the long post. But I had to better expose my reason for thinking outboard gear is great but not a complete solution for a small studio with tight budget.
If you intend to use outboards for a track or two or buss the drums let's say. It's a very nice idea (with gear that makes that difference you are looking for)

Of course if you are in for a Neve console to mix... God I hope you'll also buy pristine converters and make me drool on your gear !! ;)

mactreouser, post: 449030, member: 47968 wrote: outboard mix, I think certainly the goodness is Fast Record with Clean (original) tone, then spend times to tweak the right tone and dynamic in the post stage. That's my thought too. Sometimes, better ideas during the mix or right after recording section, haha.

That depends on your definition of "tweaking".
If you are truly tweaking - just making small, subtle changes to get things to sit right in the mix, then yes..., but if you are making huge changes by large increments, then that can be a red flag indicating that things probably weren't recorded that well to begin with.
The better your recordings sound from
the beginning, the better your mix will sound, and you'll get there much quicker too, without spending huge amounts of time trying to correct things (often it's futile) that could (or should) have been taken care of in the tracking stages... and the less time you spend working on a mix, the more objectivity you'll retain, and the less you'll suffer from aural fatigue from the redundancy of constantly playing tracks back so many times in an effort to try to figure out how to "fix" the problems, and to try to get them to sound good.
Just an opinion