You have two options and a mixer is not one of them. You need either a digital audio interface, or a Line 6 POD and forget about the vocals. If you have a good guitar/bass amp setup then go ahead and get mics and mic it up. If you play on a cheap amp then using mics won't 'create' any tone, good tone comes from good equipment and good technique, there are no shortcuts. There is no easy button to 'near-pro' quality. If you walked into a pro studio and used pro equipment on pro musicians you would probably come up with something more along the lines of near-demo quality. I'm not trying to put you down, but I'm not sure that you understand the field you are going into. Technique is as important if not more important than the gear or musician themselves.

Sorry to be so harsh bro, but it sounds like you are discounting all the hard work, effort, and expertise that goes into a production. I find it a bit arrogant.

Ok...well $50 mixer and $150 sound card and add a SM57/58 mic for $100 into the mixer, +Sonar 8 $300?, EZ Drummer free?
I assume you already have a guitar and bass.
Seems like a presentable recording setup for doing songwriting and demos for the price....$600
It is what it is....if you record everything in a decent quiet space and you make good music, you can make it work!
The Sonar will give you some help with all the things you can do with your tracks once you record them.
It's really up to how well you put it all together and what you sound like..
It's not the best mixer, but it will mix you're instruments....
If that's what you have to work with, just go for it and post some examples of what it sounds like and maybe it's great and maybe not so great?....don't know until you try it.....
Pro quality doesn't have to mean expensive equipment if your a great musician!

wow, i didn't try to minimise all the effort put into recording, and if you found my question arrogant i think you got the whole picture wrong, no offence intended. After all i DID ask whether it was possible, so anyone could simply say "no".

I did, nonetheless, forget to mention I'm a keyboardist so I'm not sure a pod would make sense, the thing is I wanted to invite friends to record in the album I'm planning to record.

I just asked because I've heard fantastic recordings done with noth more than a sound card such as my own and a mixer, maybe a pre-amp for the guitars and basses as well

just to be sure...could a small mackie mixer perhaps help me? Or should i plug instruments directly into the card and save the money?

Thanks again!

You did say that you wanted to record guitar, bass, and vocals didn't you? Where did the keyboard enter the conversation?

oh, btw, I really, honestly, and humbly don't want to be unfair, guitarfreak. I ABSOLUTELY appreciate your words and advice and didn't want to leave it unsaid... Cheers mate.

Now that I think about it...what about just getting a pre-amp for guitars and bass (maybe some day vocals too)? Would it make sense? After all, come to think of it, I'll be recording every instrument individually, so there should be no actual "mixing" involved...

Does this help boost the incoming signals decently?

I would go for a Mackie mixer over the Beringer for sure but they cost more.
You'll get a better sound with Mackie, very clean and clear and transparent and better quality preamps.
With your keyboards do you want them plugged into the mixer as well (audio) or are you just using MIDI?
Be nice to have 2 stereo inputs for the keys and then a guitar and bass input and then a couple balanced mic inputs.
Of course if you wanted to get a good mixer and a better sound card maybe you should look at a USB or firewire digital interface. There are all sorts of those out there for very low $$$...I mean WOW $180 for 4 channels!

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.zzounds…"]Lexicon Omega from zZounds.com[/]="http://www.zzounds…"]Lexicon Omega from zZounds.com[/]

Then you get a better recording interface, better mixer all in one package! The mixers you're looking at only give you two channels (stereo) out to record into Sonar with....that's pretty limited recording wise....
Getting an interface you get 4 input channels or bigger 8 input channels separately into Sonar which would help your recordings more than any small stereo mixer and PC stereo sound card will do.

thanks dj! And what about the pre-amp idea? That way I could keep my juli@ card, which has made me SO happy for many years! Wouldn't it help with the recording of the guitars?

On a related note, I might otherwise get a 3-channel mackie mixer (can't really recall the model but it's one of the smallest ones) but I'm not entirely sure if it has pre-amp or not...

Whenever anyone says "soundcard" I sorta cringe because 90% of the time it is something in the soundblaster category we are talking about. The soundcard ferchis is referring to is a dedicated recording interface capable of line level TRS input and appears to be from this article [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.soundons…"]ESI Pro Julia[/]="http://www.soundons…"]ESI Pro Julia[/] capable of good recording up to 24/192, it is compared favorably to some E-Mu cards which have a good reputation though I have never used one.

Yes you could get a preamp set up for recording bass, guitars and vocals and run it to the juli@. Most guitars are recorded by micing them, not just direct ,whether they are acoustic or electric. Some reasonably good recordings can be obtained direct with the very top end acoustics which have internal mics as well as piezo pickups but for the most part the piezo pickup has a unmistakeable "squawk" that is difficult to overcome. Electric guitars can be recorded direct if you or your guitarist is very good with software modelers which in the hands of a very talented player can yield excellent results but if wielded by a less experienced person often leave overprocessed, sterile tracks without good tone. Most electric bass is recorded direct either by using a DI box or a preamp that is instrument input capable (this true for DI guitar as well) which many preamps are not.

So I am not certain anyone can tell you do "this" over the internet, it is something that you will have to weigh deciding yourself in which direction you want to proceed. You very likely do not need a "mixer" as you pointed out yourself there really is no mixing involved. While mixers do have preamps and EQ they also devote a good deal of their cost to routing options totally unnecessary for your application.

The larger issue as I see it is the investment in a preamp. I can't think of a good stand alone preamp in the price range of the low end berryspringer boards but you could search the threads for low cost preamp options, though you are probably better off getting a good preamp from the start if you head down this road. BTW very decent pro vocals can be obtained with a SM58 ($100) and a great preamp so you are further ahead in this area than you might have thought.

thanks a lot Jg!!!!!! that's exactly what I thought: the juli@ is a FANTASTIC/AWESOME/INCREDIBLE recording interface (as you very well put it) that has given me extraordinary results in the last few years, and I know of people with very decent home studios using it and the outcome is as such.

the thing is, I have only ever used it to record my synths, never any vocals or bass or guitars, but was looking to invite fellow musicians to record and that's why I considered the best option when it comes to boosting and enrichening the signal from this instruments. I'm the merrier now you mention that with a good preamp it's ALSO possible to record decent-quality vocals, but my primary concern are the guitars and bass, all of them to be recorded individually as I mentioned before (therefore no need to actually mix anything)

I'll check preamp prices and let you know what I found...

Budget for a preamp?

So just to be clear you will need a preamp and at least one microphone and possibly some type of DI box. [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.audiocou…"]DI Box - What is It? - Tutorials[/]="http://www.audiocou…"]DI Box - What is It? - Tutorials[/]

well... as far as budgets go... I have to say I'm practically scraping the bottom of the barrel right now, and I'm in Argentina, which of course doesn't make things easier but in fact quite the opposite.

I've seen a couple such as M-Audio Audio Buddy Pre, but, hey, maybe after all guitarfreak was right and a pod could be a good solution! would it help for vocals as well?

or I got it all wrong and the pod isn't a pre-amp either?

I'm still pondering about this...

There are no mic preamps in the Line6 Pod. It's for guitars hi-z input. Microphones are primarily low-z.

TheJackAttack, post: 300632 wrote: There are no mic preamps in the Line6 Pod. It's for guitars hi-z input. Microphones are primarily low-z.

This is true, but it does act as a DI box/amp simulator and can be used for guitar/bass so that covers at least a few of his bases fairly cheaply.

True, though I'm not convinced of the need for a DI box. A preamp output will already be at line level and the Juli@ card already has line input jacks.

TheJackAttack, post: 300639 wrote: True, though I'm not convinced of the need for a DI box. A preamp output will already be at line level and the Juli@ card already has line input jacks.

The soundcard's built in line ins are most likely not high enough impedance to accept a guitar pickup without sounding muddy. That is why I think everyone is recommending a DI box. I think this is a fairly tough situation to cover, let alone do it cheaply.

Which is why I asked a budget at the top of the page. Many two channel preamps have a hi-z input in the combo jack. Two birds and all that. But we still don't have a budget other than "bottom of the barrel" so any speculation on my part is a moot (or mute-take your semantic pick) point.

what about the behringer mic 100, mic 200 or mic800 pre amplifiers? I've been told they deliver a great sound!!

btw, let's assume I do get a pre amp, could I connect it from its jack output to the RCA inputs in juli@? I'm asking because there's the two options (rca input or jack input) and I'm currently using the rca one...

ferchis, post: 300642 wrote: what about the behringer mic 100, mic 200 or mic800 pre amplifiers? I've been told they deliver a great sound!!

btw, let's assume I do get a pre amp, could I connect it from its jack output to the RCA inputs in juli@? I'm asking because there's the two options (rca input or jack input) and I'm currently using the rca one...

Why don't you just listen to Jack and give us a budget to work with, I am sure we can get you much better appliances for at or less money than those POS units. Let us do the hard work, it's why you are here is it not? Max budget?

I won't recommend Beh***** gear and so won't even comment. Suffice it to say that anyone claiming great things from them have never experienced great things.

You can make cables (or buy) to go from balanced to unbalanced in whatever flavor you want. 1/4" TRS or XLR are your best options but if you need to go unbalanced to RCA then it's possible. Why wouldn't you use the 1/4" jacks on your card?

Note FYI definition:
jack= a panel mounted receptacle for a cable. It could be "panel mounted" on a PCI card or direct box or mixer or whatever.
plug= the end of the cable that goes into a jack

Either of these things could come in any variety of types-XLR, 1/4" or 1/8" or TT in TRS or TS (phone), RCA (phono), Neutrik, banana, Phoenix, etc. So technically you have RCA jacks and phone jacks on your Juli@ card.

There are some technical issues I think you are missing. The TRS (balanced) 1/4" inputs on your card are at professional +4dB interface levels which most preamp output gain levels are likely to be. The RCA jack inputs on this card are at consumer audio, more sensitive -10dBV inputs, lower (-10dBV) output levels. So your choice of where to connect something has more to do with these levels rather than what type of jack the device has. DVDHawk's famous line "Just because you can make it fit doesn't mean it's right" applies here.
Practically anything is better than Behr%$#ger gear post a budget get some ideas.

DVDHawk's famous line "Just because you can make it fit doesn't mean it's right" applies here.

That's why nuttin is Gyrene proof......like the time the gennie guys sent 220 down a 110 line......

ferchis:
I think if you wanted to hookup both synths, guitar, bass and vocals I would use a small mixer with 8 inputs....you could forgo the mic preamp and just use the balanced mic input on the mixer.
if you want to record everyone playing together then the mixer would be the way to go......
If you are just going to plug one instrument in at a time and record a track then I think you already have what you need.....
How much are you thinking of spending on a preamp? You could add a preamp but I'm wondering how much of a benefit that would be....does the "juli sound card" have balanced inputs for a mic?

well... I don't know about the difference in prices between America and Argentina, but let's say u$s100, maybe a liiiitle more

FYI:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.esi-audi…"]ESI - Juli@[/]="http://www.esi-audi…"]ESI - Juli@[/]

This is what the OP has. They aren't common in the US. The card can be configured at home for either 2/2 I/O 1/4" TRS balanced or 2/2 I/O RCA unbalanced. It would be best for the card itself to be configured balanced. Any unbalanced gear can just plug right on in anyway.

it's so strange, everytime I tried connecting any synth to the BALANCED jacks in juli@, the sound was terribly lower, is it due to the synth output?

What cable are you using for that and where are you coming out of the synth? Are you using a headphone jack?

jack, I may be new to recording, but not to synths!!! of course I'm using the audio outputs from the synths!!! lol (maybe I gave you all the impression of blindly groping in the dark here, but I've had my share of recording experience with synths, but ONLY with synths I admit...)
as regards the cable, I had a very good quality 1/4- trs-to-rca cable built at an electronics shop here with decent materials, and the synth comes out clean and strong with the rca jacks. whenever I used any kind of 1/4 trs cable (standard audio cable, but good make) into the BALANCED, TRS jack, the volume was comparatively lower, though still enough to work with...

any ideas about this in particular? djmukilteo said maybe I ALREADY have anyth I need... do you think I could simply plug the instruments directly into the card?

I am sure that Jack wasn't implying anything on you, if you knew the science of it you would know why he asked. Balanced means that the signal is split between three connections, (+) = Normal signal, (-) = Phase inversed signal and Ground. Now if the output jack is unbalanced, then it is sending the whole signal on the (+), and possibly nothing on the (-). If the source and destination were mismatched then you might be experiencing exactly what you are experiencing because the destination is looking to retrieve the other half of the signal via the (-) connection when in fact the source is not sending anything via the (-).

Here's the deal on the levels. The balanced inputs are looking for what's known as +4dB professional level. The RCA inputs are looking for -10dB consumer level. Your keyboard doesn't produce a +4 level so it appears softer. That doesn't mean you can't use the 1/4". You can fix the level in your DAW.

These inputs won't work for a microphone unless you have a preamp inline which changes the mic level to line level. For a guitar or bass you'll need a direct injection box which changes the instrument level to line level. Some preamps will have the ability to accept an instrument level and convert it so you wouldn't need a DI box.

$100 is tough. I'll have to think about that. Maybe can't do it for that amount.

I think I was suggesting a mic into some mixer input like the Mackie first ....that's why I asked about the sound card having any mic inputs, so now seeing the actual sound card it only has 2 line in and 2 line outs....so I don't think I would spend $100 on a mic preamp!
I would get a decent small mixer with more inputs for your instruments like a Mackie with the $100 (find something on Ebay) that would be my choice for sure....output of the mixer +4 line out to line in balanced to your sound card and record your two tracks in Sonar.... that's the best thing you could do with that setup....at least a $100 mixer would expand your inputs and give a mic preamp!
But that's just my opinion....you can do whatever you like.... LOL

you can find these all day long for cheap! I had one years ago and it's a great mixer for the price
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://cgi.ebay.com…"]Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro Audio Mixer - eBay (item 150417511081 end time Mar-02-10 23:07:53 PST)[/]="http://cgi.ebay.com…"]Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro Audio Mixer - eBay (item 150417511081 end time Mar-02-10 23:07:53 PST)[/]

well... the thing about mackie is that here in Argentina they are few and far between, and prohibitively expensive most of them. what about the 402-vlz3? It's got phantom (though I want to make it clear again that the vocals are not my priority, since I haven't got mics!!! not yet, though) and surely a very good quality.

but I can't look past these two: be*****er (I won't write it because most seem to hate it) mic100 or M-Audio Audio Buddy. I could get a good deal on any of these two... which one would you choose if you were "forced by the circumstances"?

Wow...I didn't even notice you're location there!
I must say your English is excellent and cool to hear from fellow musician/recording artist from way down south!
The 402 seems like a great price for a new mixer but it seems a little small for 2 stereo keyboards, guitar, bass and a vocal mic.
If you just plan on plugging in a couple of things at a time then it would be great and much better sounding then the beringer's.
A lot of people on here don't recommend those to anybody because they are cheap and don't sound all that good for the money and they don't last long before something goes wrong and they're not real reliable! That's why if your on a budget and have $100 you want to buy the best quality for the money....Mackie is just better quality for the money!
M-Audio Buddy but again a small mixer
Now like I said earlier...you still can only record two mono tracks or one stereo track into Sonar simultaneously with your sound card.....which is why I mentioned the Lexicon Omega or something like that for around $150....then you could record 4 tracks at a time and its a mixer with mic preamps, but I know you want to use the Juli sound card so I thnk your stuck mixing down multiple instruments through a mixer in stereo and then into your card and Sonar....which is fine....you can do two tracks at a time and that works fine!

I think that it depends on your level of seriousness. If you really are just going to use this when a couple of friends come over and share a beer or two and lay down some lines then yeah, the 'signal is signal' mentality works. If you plan on doing this somewhere down the line then it would be worth your interest to invest in a better setup. You could buy three disposable units until you've spent enough to have purchased a better setup from the start.

If I were you I'd grab any decent used name brand mixer with as many mic inputs as you need plus a few and start jamming and recording. Given your budget and recording experience it'll be a while before you really know what you want to do. If your budget recovers and catches up with your skill you can upgrade to a more advanced setup that not only does more but sounds better. Starting on modest gear is like training with weights. If you survive it you will really perform when the weights come off. After a while you will know exactly why what you have sucks, so you will know what to look for next time.

Plug guitar and bass right into the board. It won't be perfect but it might not be too terrible. Later get a DI or Pod or nice tube preamp and enjoy the wonderful improvement. You can also mic an amp. There are many opportunities for better sound, but no guarantees. You could buy Abbey Road (it's actually for sale) to record in and still end up with garbage. Skill is the crucial factor.

Think about how you will hear yourselves. As the default recording engineer you will have to monitor the mix being recorded, even if it's not perfect for playing to. A mixer at least gives you options that a bunch of preamps and Pods can't, like monitor mixes and aux sends/returns for effects. It also avoids any latency, though at 192kHz that should be relatively low. If all the instruments are audible in the room some players could just listen acoustically, but hearing themselves through their mic makes their sound more consistent. Headphones and a headphone amp would be helpful here. Even a Behringer headphone amp is better than just using a bunch of splitters.

thanks to everyone here, you're being most helpful, I guess it's up to me to decide what to do now.

just a short note: many have said that a mixer would be useful because of the channels, but as I said at the beginning: I'm NOT planning to record more than one instrument at a time, the plan is to record everyone individually, so I don't think I need more than ONE channel, and that is why (chiefly) I want to keep the Juli@, it delivers astounding sound results for one stereo channel. that being said, I still find the 402 mackie mixer enticing if everyone here agrees that it's got pre amps for vocals and instruments and a great sound which I won't find in any other brand.

could I just settle for it and then do the rest in Sonar?

well... I just wanted to update this thread by telling everyone here that I'm finally going for the mackie 402 vlz3 mixer. I think it's definitely the best quality option for my budget AND my needs. thanks to everyone for the help and advice!!!

I'll let you know then how it goes then!!

cheers!