I have a '66 blackface Fender Chanp and an Ibanez 808 reissue. For recording it's awesome. You can get a champ on ebay for 300-500. Silverface is the same thing, er close enough. Pedal is $180, but Ibanez also makes the TS9 tubescreamer pedal for $99 which is prett close. If you want more chugga chugga the BOss Metalzone is also excellent.

I wish I new the bands you mentioned but I have been in a cave for the last 10 years

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You say they are almost the same thing...but there's an $80 difference lol. This makes me want to get the more expensive one because I hate cheap versions/knockoffs. How do they compare?

well there IS a difference. but since you were on a budget i recommended the TS9. The chips are different, I find the TS9 to have a bit more pronounced high while the 808 has a meatier midrantge. If I never had one to compare with the other, I would be happy with either one.

Here's a link to something I heard just last night. Very impressive. http://www.BMpedal.com

Can I assume Dave you would recommend the "BAD DOG" pedal?

Sweet, thanks for the info guys. I just got back from spending three hours at Guitar Center haha. I ended up buying the BOSS DS-1. I couldn't resist, it had decent tone but it was only 39.99, I mean come on. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try out any tube screamers because they didn't have any set up, and I already had the guys pull some strings for me so I didn't want to push my luck haha. But I know TS's are good quality effects, so maybe sometime in the future. One thing I don't like about the DS-1 is that the distortion isn't really all that tweakable, but anyhow it was good enough for Kurt Cobain so it's good enough for me 8)

Well, I cant directly. LOL... Great name...should I sue? I used the Hot Wired pedal last night and was very very impressed with it.

This pedal builder has the low-end down to a tee. The tight lows are what are missing in ALL manufactured pedals and some boutique ones. These have great low frequency response which is what would be the answer to a lot of questions relating to this sort of saturated drive that you hear so much of lately. The guitars have a lot of lowend to them but still retain the clarity that you simply cant get without manipulations of some sort. I know that the heavily saturated amps are supposed to do this, but even Tripe-Recs I've experienced havent been as firm in the lows as you'd like to have to record with. These pedals seem to fill the task nicely. And even though they have some pricy numbers, this a LOT cheaper than trying to find that perfect tube amp that'll do these sounds.

Besides...Brent Mason is one of my guitar heros.

That's funny GF - I was going to suggest that very pedal.
But having read your discussion w/ gabriel on the tube screamers, declined to post it - figured it would be too budget for ya. Go figure.

I've read reviews that claim it is relatively comparable to the TS.
Haven't had a chance to compare them, but for $40, at the least you've got a good alternative if you decide to get another distortion pedal.

I've had guitarists come in and use it and be happy w/ the results.

I just can't get anything to work. It must just be my amp, no matter what settings or pedals I use I always get muddy bass and high frequency garble. Nothing sounds good no matter what I do. It's very frustrating for a guitarist to not be able to get a good guitar sound v_v

Sorry, I missed it but what amp are you using?

It's a Marshall AVT 50. I've considered a bad tube, I've considered a blown speaker...idk just nothing sounds good.

You mean the ECC83 in the preamp? I question whether that would be it. Do you have the bass cranked on that thing? Have you tried propping the amp on a chair? Do you have it in a corner? Sorry. Taking stabs in the dark here.

It is a solid state amp aimed at budget minded individuals so I wouldn't expect too much from it.

Bass isn't cranked, got it propped on a foldaway snack table, and it's not in the corner, actually I have it positioned in the mathematical "sweet spot" of the room. Given the situation, it must be a bad amp. Between 3-4 threads I've talked about bad tone and even with all the help I've gotten it still hasn't affected much other than technique. Sheesh, they say it's not what you have it's what you do but...I guess catchy sayings only go so far.

Bad gear can ruin it for anyone. Certainly a good player will sound good no matter what he plays with/through but that doesn't mean the sound quality will be good.

Too bad I didn't get to try the Fender Blues Jr today. That one looked promising for me. I've been after the tube tone for years but couldn't justify dropping the dough. 600 actually isn't that much for an all tube amp, and if it sounds the way I want it to then all the better.

On a sidenote, don't flame me for thinking wattage is everything cause I don't, but is that 15 watt FBJ loud? I played on the VOX 30 and even though it's only 20 watts less than my amp, it's only about 1/8 the volume, so there's obviously other things that go into loudness than RMS wattage.

Mic placement.
Repeat 10x.

Then look at your amp. Specifically volume, gain, and eq settings.

I've recorded Fender Deluxe, Blues Jr, Musicman, Ampeg, B*er, etc. And some weird no-name brands.

Anytime the guitarist was happy w/ his amp sound, I was able to produce a sound that made him happy, primarily through mic placement and mic choice.
This is not to say the the guitar sound was the BEST for that possible scenario. But it met the compromise of satisfying me (engineer) and him (guitarist).
Since you're both engineer and guitarist, if you can get a sound out of the amp that you're happy with, it's all about mic placement/choice and maybe some adjustments on the amp itself.

Finally, keep in mind the (signal) chain of a good recording:
Player > Instrument > Mic > Cable > Pre > and so on...

I don't claim to have a great deal of experience. But my limited experience has been greatly varied, and these principles and the situations that demonstrate them has allowed me to walk away satisfied w/ every project I've worked on.

I played through a friends Blues Jr and really liked the sound. A few weeks later I played through one at a music store and was not so impressed. Came to find out his had been hot rodded, I guess there is a simple mod that is easy to find on the net that improves the tone greatly. Is it loud? THat is so subjective, it is enough amp to play small clubs, it is more than enough for stage dynamics ( that is why we have PA systems) but let it be known we are not kids anymore and none of us uses half stacks. The Marshall model you are using I have never liked, but then there are only a few Marshalls I have really liked all older, all tube models, half stacks, heavy as hell and I for one am unwilling to haul this kind of gear around. I do not play heavily distorted music so I might not be much of a source here. Find any amp you like the tone of and amplify that if you need more volume, then you will have something easy to record, easy to move, easier on the wallet.
Volume percieved to wattage has a lot to do with speakers esp. impedance, the higher impedance speakers will usually be chosen by manufacturers for better tone but can cut the volume by 1/2, 1/4 or more.

I have to say though, that after playing with the DS-1 for a little bit I am pretty impressed. It's pretty transparent, good tone and doesn't sound too processed. Much better than other BOSS pedals for much more. I bought the SD-1, the overdrive version, shortly after starting out a few years back. IMO it sounded like crap for the money I paid for it. The best tone I got out of it was when I plugged it into my VooDoo Labs power supply and activated the voltage changer. When running at 3 or 4 volts instead of the usual 9, I got a nice analog sounding "sag", but the stock sound IMO is too fake sounding to use as an effect, maybe as a line boost for solos.

[/rant]

When a persons ear and their playing mature to a certain point is when the 'expensive' equipment becomes the base stuff to have.

Its really that simple.

There are artifacts in those cheap pedals that will eventually show themselves. Once you learn what they are you will continue in the 'Quest For Tone'. Things like true bypass will start to have meaning. The blurring of the sound at the edges will drive you nuts and theres nothing you can do about it. It is an aspect of cheap design, cheap components and cheap assembly labor.

Buying a pedal that is a mass-produced big name isnt going to get you quality everytime. In fact it seldom does.

These are words you need to embrace. Keeley. Fulltone. Wampler. Prescription Electronics. Theres a lot of others. Yes, they are more than 30 bucks. All of em. BUT. if you pay 30 dollars every few months and still dont have what you want, eventually you will have surpassed the price of one great pedal.

Which is cheaper?

How much is your sound worth to you?

You are NEVER going to get the sound you want out of that amp. I dont care what the badge on it says. That Marshall is a dog. And to ask it to do what you describe you want from it is going to continue to be an exercise in futility on your part.

I'm not sure the Blues Jr is what you want either. I've owned one for around seven years. Back before they farmed them out for assembly elsewhere. It sounds great. Its loud as hell to a point...It lacks in so many ways for some things, for others its perfect.

You are NOT going to get that saturated big tight bottom end sound from one. I dont care what pedal you use or what recording methods you use, aint gonna happen. Its not designed to do that. You want warm,crisp, bluesy sounds? Blues Jr.

OR. If you want a clean platform for a great pedal then you might get what you want from one. Just dont expect the amp to deliver that sound.

Its box is a little too small to really get that tight lowend thump.

They dont like high-gain humbuckers much either.

I appreciate your srtuggle. We've all been there. My take is you're not going to find what you need at GitarMart either.

Its time you get on the net and start looking a REAL gear and move up.

I would at least look into an Orange Tiny Terror and a reasonable 2x12 cab. At any rate you're going to need to spend more than a grand to get close to what you want. Probably closer to 3 or 4 grand for a reasonable combo amp. Mesa Boogie comes to mind, though I know that a lot of people don't like these.

Thanks. Yeah DD I realize the essential 'frumpiness' of the brand and pedal I have just bought. I don't think it is the greatest pedal out there by any stretch, but I meant to say that for what I paid for it it performs quite well.

I have been falling from the Marshall tree steadily the past few years. I think it started when they discontinued my favorite amp model. The DSL-100. Say what you want, when I went into GC to play on that thing it was like that amp was made for me. I just need a place to latch on elsewhere, I have looked into MB's and a few things bother me...

1. Price obviously, they're freaking expensive
2. They are boutique, which means you can't try them out very easily, and if you can, it'll most likely be used.

How about orange amps? Boutique as well? I can't seem to find them on online shopping sites, but I've heard a lot about them.

Right around the corner from you is an Orange Dealer
Route 1 Guitars
189 Bridgeport Avenue
Milford
CT
06460
203-783-9828
Call them and see what they have in stock.

http://ultrasoundampsales.com/
203-966-2096 I don't know if these guys really have a showroom and I believe they are vintage dealers to the stars but....

I have done a good deal of business with this guy, he tells it like it is regarding the condition of thestuff. If he says it is mint it is.
http://www.jimsguitars.com/

He can't be all bad we share the same first name. Or can he?

Mesas aren't nearly as boutique as say a Dr.Z or Bogner. You can buy them new at just about any guitar shop.

I would just as soon run out there jg except...I don't live in ct anymore *cries* I miss it, I would probably run out to One Flight Up as well.

What specific models should I look at for Orange and Mesa amps? I want to try out at least two of each brand. You guys would know better than I, or my wallet for that matter hehe.

hueseph wrote: At any rate you're going to need to spend more than a grand to get close to what you want. Probably closer to 3 or 4 grand for a reasonable combo amp.

Ouch! :/ Shoot, that's alot of monies$.

Yes:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AC15CC1/
Yes:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BluesJunior/

My roomate has a BJ. It's pretty dirty, but its hella crisp running through his '62 Tele re-issue lipstick pickup. Cuts through really nicely in some of the mixes of our band. I've played a nice orange stack, too. I don't remember which one, but it was pretty impressive. Really gritty and bright, but still good.

I'm surprised no one asked yet, (unless I missed it!?) What guitar are you using? What pickups? String gauge?

I doubt that either of those will give him the tone he wants. Try a Mesa Lonestar. The Orange Tiny Terror and a good 2x12 should be fine as well along with a good metal distortion pedal. A metal muff or one of the Radial Tonebones.

hueseph wrote: I doubt that either of those will give him the tone he wants.

Probably not the BJ, but don't write off the AC15 so quickly.
If he's looking for the glossy nu-metal tone, the AC15 can do the trick without having to spend an ass ton of money or use a fuzzy pedal.
Thrice played through AC30's on their latest album. AC30 + baritone guitar + drop tuning = nice tone of 'Firebreather' http://www.myspace.com/thrice
I know the AC15 isn't an AC30, but you can still get beefy sounds out of it without shaking the floor with 15 extra watts.

Also, I've gotten some good sounds of my Valvetronix amp modeler.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VT50

It's not tube (not really), but it sounds great for the price and you'll be able to get the gain that would be a bit shy in the AC15.

If you are looking into another pedal, consider this one too:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Satchurator

(not associated with Vox in anyway)

Ok. Do you know which AC 30 they used? I would bet it's the AC 30 head and 4x12 cab or at the least the 2 x 12 combo. Both tube AC 30s and neither of which is under $1500.00. Not all AC 30s are the same.

What you are not considering which is a huge factor is cabinet and speaker size. These are a large contributing factor when you are trying to mic an amp. A single 8" and two 12" or even 10" do not have the same sound.

No, you're right, there is a big difference. I'm sorry if I seem a bit closeminded. I'm just trying to offer some cheaper alternatives to the more expensive solutions.

I love this Forum, its a great site! There's a ton of really experienced guys here with a lot of good advice to offer. It seems to be a trend to jump rather hastily to the more expensive products, which is appropriate as this is a "pro audio" oriented place, but difficult for a student like me to be mindful of with such limited finances.

Anyway, I'm sure that its a 2x12 combo, not the head and cab. This amp, standard, costs $1200, but knowing Thrice, I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in different speakers or at least opted for Celestion Blues which would bring the price up to 1800 new.

Additionally, I read online that Teppei (Thrice guitarist) often uses a Turbo Rat pedal, so its quite possible that he used it on the album for some extra chunk. Seemingly, just a bare AC15/30 would not be the best for achieving the Nu-Metal chunk.

Turbo Rat pedal

I really hate those pedals. They sound like mud. But I think sounding like mud is cool these days... :lol:

NCdan wrote:

Turbo Rat pedal

I really hate those pedals. They sound like mud. But I think sounding like mud is cool these days... :lol:

yeah, I'm afraid of most pedals.
This is why:
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/DigiTech-RP500-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Pedal?sku=155502

I've heard some really nasty sounds come out of these.

ZebraThief wrote: It seems to be a trend to jump rather hastily to the more expensive products, which is appropriate as this is a "pro audio" oriented place, but difficult for a student like me to be mindful of with such limited finances.

I agree with you on that. There is also a strong bias against amp modelling. I personally think there are some very good options for amp modelling and they don't have to sound sterile. GTR is a great sounding plugin so are Amplitube and Guitar Rig.

There are some things I like about Amplitube which I'm not sure that the others have adopted. Namely the ability to use multiple amps on a single source. This is a huge deal and makes for some very thick tones. Adding the right amount of room reverb can enhance the realism.

There are a lot of barriers to overcome in regards to bias but it's getting better. Most people here are biased because they can hear the difference or they think they can. Most home hobbyists would be hard pressed to hear the difference between a real amp and a model. Mind you, have heard many horrible amp models from reputable companies.

Hey sorry just got out of work. I believe somebody asked the guitar I use. It is the Fender Tom DeLonge model with a single Duncan Invader pickup. I also have a Jackson with stock Duncan's, but the Fender is my primary axe. Its tone tends to be wide open and gets loud before it gets dirty, so I'm looking for a chunky amp that's going to add some balls to the naturally bright, punchy Fender tone and make it sing.

Two ideas straight off the press. Simple two track ideas recorded using my new DS-1. Simple, but you can get a feel for the sound I'm trying to get...maybe.

video from Audix

video from Audix

Just got back from another day at GC haha. Hueseph you were right, the Lonestar is a beast. I spent a good hour on this amp alone, dialing in different tones and wow it is very thick sounding. There really is no quiet setting is there? I got yelled at twice for being too loud, and I'm like...ok, let me turn it down to .8 haha. I also tried it with the DS-1 and the TS9 Tube Screamer, but I didn't like it as much as the amp's natural tone. Nobody had anything to say about my 30 sec clips?

Is this thing on...? *tap* *tap*