Not to avoid your question about the two mentioned but look into the RE20, Beyer M88, even a 421 might be give you a easier place to start.

Originally posted by Fruition2k:
Not to avoid your question about the two mentioned but look into the RE20, Beyer M88, even a 421 might be give you a easier place to start.

Why? I'm looking into the same question. I think I've decided to go D6. I was also looking at Sennheiser e602. I'm just tired of the D112. I also do mainly jazz. I've heard that the e602 might be a little too hyped in the upper mids, making it more applicable to Hip Hop, etc.. I haven't heard it so I don't know.

But I'm curious. Why would those be easier places to start?

After 18 years using them, I've found the best results for that type of music, and live use as well. Speaking from experience not heresay.

Thanks. But what I mean is, what about them make them "easier places to start?" I guess the phraseology has me confused.

I mean I really am a fan of the 421, but I've never used one on kick. I know a lot of folks do. The last session I did I used a Soundelux iFet on the kick and it was perfect. But I'm not going to spoend that kind of money on a kick mic. It was big and poofy. Perfect for SOME jazz applications, when you don't want a tight a focused sound. Obviously most of that comes from tuning. Buty I know I wouldn't have gotten that sound from my usual D112.

Not familiar with the other mics you mentioned. I've used the EV PL-20, which I think is more or less the same thing as the RE20. Though once again I haven't used it on kick. But I've heard that the RE20 is great on it. The M88 I don't knnow. My druthers? An AEA44c.

Mostly I base it on not having to eq...using the mics freq. response curve. I've been using my Daking pre/eqs for kick and snare exclusively. I love the eq but I'd rather not use any if the mic will give me what I'm looking for first. AEA44? Havent tried one yet, did have a 4038 I bought from Wes but replacing ribbons were getting costly not to mention turn around time, sold it for an M269.

As for the original question....both of these mics allow a solid, deep,well defined kick sound with very little if any EQ. For a jazz set, I would be little more inclined to the ATM25 as it has just a touch less klick than the D6.Again, both are excellent mics at very decent prices. As was mentioned by one of the other posters, a Sennheiser MD421 makes a very good kick mic also.I have used one on kick in the past and while it was a very good choice, there was a bit of a lack of natural low end.Adding EQ was not a problem however and the resultant sound was a good match on that particular session.The ATM25 and the Audix D6 are more oriented towards the kick mic in general and will require no manipulation to get a great sound.

Davedog,
Next time you make the schlepp down here, bring your ATM 25 and we will record some comparisons with the D6 and a D112... K.

Absolutely!Maybe I'll find a 421 to go in there too..

Originally posted by Davedog:
Absolutely!Maybe I'll find a 421 to go in there too..

Dave,
I have 3 421's here already :D Take yer' pick ...

Well then...there ya go..If we're gonna make a real good kick drum mic comparison, then a 421 should be in the mix....dun-cha-thin?I'll bring the D4 Audix also as it must be considered also.And of course the now famous Unidyne III SM57.

I'm another real big fan of the 421 for kick. And while it may not always be the perfect mic for the kick, there has been very few times when it didn't still do a great job. And of those few times when it didn't, the SM57 was a winner in a few of them. I've recently heard some kits where the Audix D6 got used and it has my interest. I'd be leary about it being good for Jazz work though. If you have a 421, try putting a windscreen over the head, it has worked for me a few times for a less modern/hyped kick sound. I would suggest for Jazz the EV RE-20. Works for bass cabinets and some vocals as well.

Originally posted by AudioGaff:
, try putting a windscreen over the head, it has worked for me a few times for a less modern/hyped kick sound.

Bob Ohlssen (motown legend) recomends putting a windscreen over his kick drum mics as well for similar effects. I tried that with my D-6 and the results were pleasing, a bit more isolation from high freq. bleed.

I personally have never liked the 421 on kicks.. it just doesn't get enough low end for my taste but this may have something to do with the way I place my mics... the RE20 gets plenty of low but lacks the high end "tick" I like ... until I got the D6, the D112 was my personal fave on kicks although the baset' ball sound is becoming a bit dated.

I really like the Audix D6 , although I would agree with AudioGaff that it is not real suitable for jazz, but then again I have probably recorded about 3 jazz bands ove a 30 year period. Most of the stuff I do is rock, pop, country and blues. For those applications, the D6 is perfect.

The RE20 is a very good mic for the jazzier kind of material. My favorite over the years for a kick sound that has that sort of spread out thump sound(illiterate today!) has been the venerable D12.Always round sounding without the 'ping' of the D112.Since I sold the D12, the only mic close to it has been the ATM25.I know a lot of people tout these but a lot of them are talking about its little brother the ATM25PRO.This is a very inexpensive mic but not the same,just wanted to clarify this.I used a 441 on kick once and was amazed.This is a mic that really lets you hear the tuning and characteristics of the drum itself.There was also a time when the Sennheiser MD409 was the right choice on kick.It was speed metal and we needed everything really closely miced to capture all the notes the drummer played.the 409 was the only mic tight enough to accomplish this.

i would not recommend the D6 for jazz. i'm really surprised it was even mentioned. have you looked at the frequecy response of this mic? i think it is very scooped (like a modern rock kick sound)...i thought there was something like an 11db drop around 400Hz, but that seems a bit much. my friend has one for and he picked it because of the more modern rock/punk sound of it. That's the same reason I like my beta52 - the R&R sound.

honestly for jazz (which i'll admit i don't record it but have sat in on a few "blue" jazz recording sessions) i would strongly suggest going with the RE20 facing the outside drum head. The 421 or an LDC might even work well for this.

Think about it this way...the D6 was included in the Travis Barker "signature" audix drum package. Travis plays fast punk and modern rock.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'd love to get a RE20, but that's a bit out of my price range. The ATM25 can be had for around $140 which is very reasonable. I think I may go with that.

I have several ATM25 (eBay) and like the way they sound nice 'n fat in the track. The response is pretty even, with a slight hump (+3) around 60 Hz, and rising above 1 KHz. The spec says good down to 30 Hz.

Here is another vote for the D6...I love it for that rock sound.

I like the E/V ND868. On the following link, you can hear it raw through 4 different preamps. It's got plenty of whump with a decent click and it takes eq well.

Check out the "kick drum" clip.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2079&alid=-1

Warren

Hi from a newbee....I've been using the Sennheiser e602 for 3 years now. I compared it to a D112, ATM25, D6 and RE20 in front of a 26" Gretsch kick when making my mind up, and it won hands down. The RE20 was closest (and I do plan to get one!) but didn't have the definition of the 602. It has a peak built in at 3k, but not enough to be a click, just to prevent mudiness. It made the other mics sound like they were in front of a shoebox in comparison. I've used it for rock, pop and jazz with great results.

The D6 was only released about 6 months ago I think...You might be thinking about the D4.

The D6 has actually been around longer than that. I had an opportunity to use one the first time about a year ago. It is a wonderful mic and we used it in a session on my kit a few weeks ago when we wanted a thuddy heavy rock sound. It is the best for that application.

I am primarily a hard bop drummer (but I play all sorts of things in sessions), so although I may think the D6 is an awesome mic, it isn't really suitable for the type of music I like to play.

I use the ATM25 and I really love it. I have used the D112 and it's a great mic but very fickle depending on how you place it. As for jazz drummers, Jeff "Tain" Watts uses the RE20, Terri Lyne Carrington uses the D112 and a whole lot of other jazz drummers use the ATM25. (It's a lot cheaper, and jazz doesn't pay that well in the 21st century :) )

I think the ATM25 is a wise choice. I also own the AT Pro 25 and it's a real good mic especially on floor toms for live gigs and in a pinch it's a really okay kick mic. It's a helluva lot better than any of the other cheaper kick mics like the PG 52.